Further discussion and analysis on why the yoke is not good

[TessP100D]

Just keep in mind that all who complain about the brakes are drag racing the car in the quarter mile and beyond, reaching speeds of 140+. Sure you can argue at that speed the brakes are insufficient but I have driven my car 8000 miles and have no complaints. I was on the freeway where auto collision kicked in, saved my life, where the car auto-braked engaging the anti-lock to a complete stop from 87mph just fine. Around town and in normal driving I rarely use the brakes and rely on regenerative braking for 95% of the time and use the regular brakes for when I come in hot in daily situations.

I've owned many heavy high performance sedans in the past, most recently an F10 M5 Competition, and currently have a 911 Carerra S, all of which have standard steel brakes which are fine for daily spirited driving and light track days. When taking them on the track or pushing them, they all exhibit brake fade at some point. In talking to the shop mechanics at BMW and Porsche, the cheapest upgrade would be to change the brake lines to stainless steel braided (to prevent heat expansion) and upgrade your brake fluids. If I was a serious track and performance junkie, then I should have opted for the CCB option for either car.

You are asking Tesla for too much and hold them to a standard where other manufacturers also do the same. Porsche nickel and dimes you for basic features like lane change assist, power seats, xenon vs. LED (PDLS), etc etc on 120k+ cars. Same with BMW and Mercedes, but you feel entitled that Tesla should do more when they have basically 5 options (paint color, wheels, FSD, seat and trim color) and everything else is standard. I have a lot more features on this car than any of my previous! My 130k 911 would have been $150k to get equivalent options and that's for a Carrera S. The model S is a fast practical family sedan and for the average use case, the brakes are plenty sufficient. You're making it sound as if these cars are underivable and a rolling NHTSA violation.

Well the Plaid has way more HP than the cars you mentioned. The Plaid can’t even legally go all out on a drag strip due to safety regs. CCB’s are cool, but not for racing on a track.

 

[2putt4]

Well the Plaid has way more HP than the cars you mentioned. The Plaid can’t even legally go all out on a drag strip due to safety regs. CCB’s are cool, but not for racing on a track.

So is it unsafe for public roads with the stock brakes?

 

[JaeTheDev]

that said..WHERE is the OTA update to allow horn activation via airbag that Elon promised?

anyone keeping up on his broken promises ,by the way? There seem to be hundreds

Two weeks....

 

[TessP100D]

So is it unsafe for public roads with the stock brakes?

From the posts I have seen … idiots driving way to fast on the public roads … yes.

want to drive fast….. go to the track and get bigger brakes so you can drive home in one piece.

 

[2putt4]

From the posts I have seen … idiots driving way to fast on the public roads … yes.

want to drive fast….. go to the track and get bigger brakes so you can drive home in one piece.

Like I said, I had an emergency stop from 87mph on the freeway and the car did what it was supposed to do. Define fast... 87mph is 22mph over the 65mph limit. Is Tesla responsible for idiots? Idiots come with all makes and models. If you're going to show off to your friends how to reach top speed in a residential neighborhood going 100+ and blame Tesla for jumping a curb and plowing into an elderly person's living room, then there is something wrong with your logic. Under NORMAL and RESPONSIBLE driving conditions, these brakes are sufficient. Every car has its limits and drag mode and cheetah mode is designed for closed course. Most people who can afford to buy 120k+ cars have a lot to lose and will not risk endangering others or themselves by doing irresponsible stunts. Stop watching YouTube because all you will see when someone posts a plaid video is how fast the car is. I've taken the car up to mullholland drive in LA and some back roads without issues. It's too curvy to go insane speeds, but I was well over the 35-40mph limit. Most of the downhill I was leveraging regen braking. I've done stupid acceleration of 0-110, but I backed off just because an empty road still has its risks if it's not on the track.

Let idiots be idiots as they do not represent the majority of Plaid owners.

 

[TessP100D]

Like I said, I had an emergency stop from 87mph on the freeway and the car did what it was supposed to do. Define fast... 87mph is 22mph over the 65mph limit. Is Tesla responsible for idiots? Idiots come with all makes and models. If you're going to show off to your friends how to reach top speed in a residential neighborhood going 100+ and blame Tesla for jumping a curb and plowing into an elderly person's living room, then there is something wrong with your logic. Under NORMAL and RESPONSIBLE driving conditions, these brakes are sufficient. Every car has its limits and drag mode and cheetah mode is designed for closed course. Most people who can afford to buy 120k+ cars have a lot to lose and will not risk endangering others or themselves by doing irresponsible stunts. Stop watching YouTube because all you will see when someone posts a plaid video is how fast the car is. I've taken the car up to mullholland drive in LA and some back roads without issues. It's too curvy to go insane speeds, but I was well over the 35-40mph limit. Most of the downhill I was leveraging regen braking. I've done stupid acceleration of 0-110, but I backed off just because an empty road still has its risks if it's not on the track.

Let idiots be idiots as they do not represent the majority of Plaid owners.

Wait… you were driving 87 miles per hour on a public road. Oooook. Ask a CHP if that is ok, safe and responsible. Also ask your insurance agent.

let me help you ….


tickets or trophy’s. Which one do you want.?


geez dude, your part of the problem.

 

[2putt4]

Wait… you were driving 87 miles per hour on a public road. Oooook. Ask a CHP if that is ok, safe and responsible. Also ask your insurance agent.

let me help you ….


tickets or trophy’s. Which one do you want.?


geez dude, your part of the problem.

If the FREEWAY traffic is flowing, I go with it. 0 tickets since I got my permit at 16. I didn't say 87 on surface roads. You're not addressing the point of how the Plaid brakes are sufficient. Part of what problem? Driving above 80 makes someone a reckless idiot? You live in CA, go to highways 5, 101, or 280 in norcal and there are many non-reckless 80mph+ cars going with the flow of traffic.

You don't own a Tesla so why are you here all negative all the time? Jumping on threads to bash on Tesla, wishing people to wreck their car on yoke threads, saying the car is unsafe. What are you getting out of this?

 

[chirowolf]

Well the Plaid has way more HP than the cars you mentioned. The Plaid can’t even legally go all out on a drag strip due to safety regs. CCB’s are cool, but not for racing on a track.

If you're inferring the Plaid is not allowed on the track because it is unsafe and does not have good brakes, I believe you're misinformed. My track "Gateway Speedway" restricts sub 10 second cars due to lack of roll cage. A rule written for older cars that did not have crash protection. I'm pretty sure the Plaid would hold its own in a rollover crash.
I do agree the Plaid does not make the best track car due to brakes and relatively heavy curb weight. Many of the large muscle cars make it to the track and I do not believe they have great brakes. See many cars with heavy brake fade just 5 or 6 laps into a session.

 

[TessP100D]

If the FREEWAY traffic is flowing, I go with it. 0 tickets since I got my permit at 16. I didn't say 87 on surface roads. You're not addressing the point of how the Plaid brakes are sufficient. Part of what problem? Driving above 80 makes someone a reckless idiot? You live in CA, go to highways 5, 101, or 280 in norcal and there are many non-reckless 80mph+ cars going with the flow of traffic.

You don't own a Tesla so why are you here all negative all the time? Jumping on threads to bash on Tesla, wishing people to wreck their car on yoke threads, saying the car is unsafe. What are you getting out of this?

What do you mean I don’t own a Tesla. What the heck is wrong with you?

 

[JaeTheDev]

Time to change the tone of this thread...

(insert pancakes recipe here)

 

[2putt4]

If you're inferring the Plaid is not allowed on the track because it is unsafe and does not have good brakes, I believe you're misinformed. My track "Gateway Speedway" restricts sub 10 second cars due to lack of roll cage. A rule written for older cars that did not have crash protection. I'm pretty sure the Plaid would hold its own in a rollover crash.
I do agree the Plaid does not make the best track car due to brakes and relatively heavy curb weight. Many of the large muscle cars make it to the track and I do not believe they have great brakes. See many cars with heavy brake fade just 5 or 6 laps into a session.

+1 - Check out this guy doing 150 in the chicanes - worst track I have ever seen to have a wall in the middle. The driver is totally nuts.

 

[ForDesign]

Just keep in mind that all who complain about the brakes are drag racing the car in the quarter mile and beyond, reaching speeds of 140+. Sure you can argue at that speed the brakes are insufficient but I have driven my car 8000 miles and have no complaints. I was on the freeway where auto collision kicked in, saved my life, where the car auto-braked engaging the anti-lock to a complete stop from 87mph just fine. Around town and in normal driving I rarely use the brakes and rely on regenerative braking for 95% of the time and use the regular brakes for when I come in hot in daily situations.

I've owned many heavy high performance sedans in the past, most recently an F10 M5 Competition, and currently have a 911 Carerra S, all of which have standard steel brakes which are fine for daily spirited driving and light track days. When taking them on the track or pushing them, they all exhibit brake fade at some point. In talking to the shop mechanics at BMW and Porsche, the cheapest upgrade would be to change the brake lines to stainless steel braided (to prevent heat expansion) and upgrade your brake fluids. If I was a serious track and performance junkie, then I should have opted for the CCB option for either car.

You are asking Tesla for too much and hold them to a standard where other manufacturers also do the same. Porsche nickel and dimes you for basic features like lane change assist, power seats, xenon vs. LED (PDLS), etc etc on 120k+ cars. Same with BMW and Mercedes, but you feel entitled that Tesla should do more when they have basically 5 options (paint color, wheels, FSD, seat and trim color) and everything else is standard. I have a lot more features on this car than any of my previous! My 130k 911 would have been $150k to get equivalent options and that's for a Carrera S. The model S is a fast practical family sedan and for the average use case, the brakes are plenty sufficient. You're making it sound as if these cars are underivable and a rolling NHTSA violation.

Here’s a list of cars faster/as fast as the MSP fully optioned including the brake option that, per your observation:

None.

That’s pretty much the crux of this discussion. With that brake option, the Tesla is a very strong value proposition vs. autos with ballpark, but not faster, accelerative capabilities. Are there other products you observed that have other preferable traits? Sure. But as an enthusiast who actually seems to drive the damn things, you seem to have an understanding that all products have their inherent pros/cons.

 

[Plaid to Mod 3]

Well at least they’ll sell you better brakes soon if you want them badly enough:

Model S Plaid Carbon Ceramic Brake Kit

Available early 2023: The Model S Plaid Carbon Ceramic Brake Kit Designed for the ultimate track experience, the Model S Plaid Carbon Ceramic Brake Kit is a complete hardware package that delivers maximum, repeatable stopping power during high-performance driving. Our rotors feature...

shop.tesla.com

You're going to need the best brakes you can get with that yoke!

 

[Plaid to Mod 3]

Did you actually read anything I’ve posted about my feedback regarding the yoke and form factor evolution? Or the Toyota review?

Aren’t you busy avoiding questions about the mysterious loss you took on a new car transaction?

Or are you picking and choosing to respond to posts that fit your narrative? (Rhetorical)

Hurt.

Actually you didn't respond anything that I posted above. The video you posted with the poster child on the hand placement with the steering wheel mention that 4:00 and 8:00 are very fine positions for the hands on a steering wheel. THE ISSUE OF THE YOKE, ONE OF MANY, is you don't have a 4:00 and at 8:00 hand position because that is a 90° angle of the bottom part of the rectangle which we call the yoke which supposedly is an acceptable replacement for a 360° steering wheel which I completely disagree with.

 

[Wol747]

Actually, in many parts of the world the ten to two is the "correct" position.

 

[ForDesign]

Actually you didn't respond anything that I posted above. The video you posted with the poster child on the hand placement with the steering wheel mention that 4:00 and 8:00 are very fine positions for the hands on a steering wheel. THE ISSUE OF THE YOKE, ONE OF MANY, is you don't have a 4:00 and at 8:00 hand position because that is a 90° angle of the bottom part of the rectangle which we call the yoke which supposedly is an acceptable replacement for a 360° steering wheel which I completely disagree with.

Reread the Toyota engineers solution to the issue. Many other automakers have a flat bottomed steering wheel. I’ve pointed that out many times.

You’ve ignored the Throttle House video in which a driver who’s an autocross driver gave his input into the steering wheel.

You’ve mis-quoted the Toyota (and its suppliers) solution to the Teslas half baked conclusion.

You’ve selectively ignored many posts that do not fit your narrative. All caps won’t solve that.

Want to enlighten us on your exact loss you took on your fictional transaction?

Your disagreement/comfort with the tech wasn’t the issue here. Your ‘science’ absolutely is.

I’m going to side with millions in capital investment into PD in which you’ve claimed you’ve read vs a grainy picture of ‘you’ holding a steering wheel in an awkward position (lol that was golden) and a ‘analysis’ which was rooted in opinion. Thanks .

 

[JaeTheDev]

This thread should be retitled, "Im right, youre wrong, and my opinion is gospel".

Sheesh friends. Who cares! LOL

 

[DayTrippin]

Actually, in many parts of the world the ten to two is the "correct" position.

If you don't have an airbag, then it typically is. They claim the 9&3 for less risk when an airbag deploys vs the 10&2.

 

[Pdubs]

Time to change the tone of this thread...

(insert pancakes recipe here)

Long ago, there was an old farmer living on the outskirts of a little village. He was quite poor, possessing only a small piece of land, a small house in which he lived with his only son, and one horse. One day, the horse broke out of the corral and ran away. The neighbors came over to console the farmer. They said, “Oh, this is so terrible! You were poor before, but now you’re destitute. What bad luck! This is the worst thing that could have happened.” The old farmer shrugged his shoulders and gently said, “Who knows what’s good and what’s bad?” The farmer fixed the fence and left the gate open. The next day, his horse came back and went right into the corral, followed by a whole herd of wild horses. The neighbors came over to congratulate him. They said, “Oh, this is so wonderful! You were the poorest man in the village and now you’re the richest. What good fortune! This is the best thing that could have happened.” The old farmer shrugged his shoulders and again said, “Who knows what’s good and what’s bad.” The next day, his son was working to tame the new horses. One of them bucked and he fell off, breaking his leg. The neighbors came over and said, “Oh, this is so terrible! Now your son is hurt, the horses can’t be tamed, and you have no one to help you harvest your crop. What bad luck! This is the worst thing that could have happened!” The old farmer shrugged his shoulders and once more said, “Who knows what’s good and what’s bad?” And the next day, the king’s army came through the countryside, taking all the able-bodied young men off to battle, where they were almost sure to die. But because the old farmer’s son’s leg was hurt, he wasn’t taken along. So who knows what’s good and what’s bad?

Parent, Dr. Joseph. Zen Golf (p. 186). Knopf Doubleday Publishing Group. Kindle Edition.

 

[TessP100D]

Long ago, there was an old farmer living on the outskirts of a little village. He was quite poor, possessing only a small piece of land, a small house in which he lived with his only son, and one horse. One day, the horse broke out of the corral and ran away. The neighbors came over to console the farmer. They said, “Oh, this is so terrible! You were poor before, but now you’re destitute. What bad luck! This is the worst thing that could have happened.” The old farmer shrugged his shoulders and gently said, “Who knows what’s good and what’s bad?” The farmer fixed the fence and left the gate open. The next day, his horse came back and went right into the corral, followed by a whole herd of wild horses. The neighbors came over to congratulate him. They said, “Oh, this is so wonderful! You were the poorest man in the village and now you’re the richest. What good fortune! This is the best thing that could have happened.” The old farmer shrugged his shoulders and again said, “Who knows what’s good and what’s bad.” The next day, his son was working to tame the new horses. One of them bucked and he fell off, breaking his leg. The neighbors came over and said, “Oh, this is so terrible! Now your son is hurt, the horses can’t be tamed, and you have no one to help you harvest your crop. What bad luck! This is the worst thing that could have happened!” The old farmer shrugged his shoulders and once more said, “Who knows what’s good and what’s bad?” And the next day, the king’s army came through the countryside, taking all the able-bodied young men off to battle, where they were almost sure to die. But because the old farmer’s son’s leg was hurt, he wasn’t taken along. So who knows what’s good and what’s bad?

Parent, Dr. Joseph. Zen Golf (p. 186). Knopf Doubleday Publishing Group. Kindle Edition.

And then the King‘s army raided the farmers house looking for anything could to see If he had any advantage over the rest of the local farmers which would lead to a full forfeiture of all his assets and land him in debtors prison. Lol.