Hi all! Just wondering if anyone knows whether Tesla have updated the Gen 3 Wall Charger to support a payment gateway and management through a website for Apartments / Strata? Can't see anything on the Gen 3 wall connector Installation Guide: https://www.tesla.com/sites/default...ng/Gen3_WallConnector_Installation_Manual.pdf - but it's possible the capability exists, but they have not updated the deployment guide... so I thought I'd reach out to someone who has purchased one recently?
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Gen 3 Wall Connector Cost Recovery - Apartment Block
- Thread starter Specul8
- Start date
Well, this is a really strange one. Yes, the capability does exist, because there is one single thread on this forum where someone happened to come across one by accident that was set up for that. Here's the thread:
Getting billed for using a normal looking wall connector?
At an apartment complex, there are a bunch of wall connectors (like what is in the tesla store). They were free to charge on them for a few months. On my last visit, I was billed $1.50 to my Tesla account. Apparently these wall connectors are "destination chargers" now capable of billing. This...
teslamotorsclub.com
But the mystery is that no one knows anything about it! It doesn't seem to be in any of the firmware releases that have been out for the wall connector yet. No one was able to talk with anyone at the apartment complex to find out how or why they set this up. It may be some unreleased Beta version of something that was being tested there--no one really knows.
So yeah, the capability does exist, since it has been done once, but no one knows how.
techzelle
Member
Yes, the wall connector can be set up as billing enabled.
Payment is done through Tesla - just as if you used a normal Supercharger.
The caveat is that the wall connector does not notify the car owner about the billing until after they finish charging.
No. This is one of the weirdest mysteries we've come across in a while on this forum. As far as publicly available information: It's some future thing that Tesla is planning to implement at some unknown time in the future. It supposedly doesn't really exist yet.
However...
There is this thread started by @techzelle , where he found one by accident that had this running. He never got to talk with anyone who knew anything about how or why this was set up. Maybe this was some experimental test case or who knows what, but as far as we know, this is the only place anyone has ever seen this, and there's not really any information about it.
Getting billed for using a normal looking wall connector?
At an apartment complex, there are a bunch of wall connectors (like what is in the tesla store). They were free to charge on them for a few months. On my last visit, I was billed $1.50 to my Tesla account. Apparently these wall connectors are "destination chargers" now capable of billing. This...
teslamotorsclub.com
techzelle
Member
Yes, there is an entire page on the Tesla website on how property owners can get their own automatic billing-enabled wall connectors.
You can have from 1 to 12 wall connectors.
You can optionally be listed on the Telsa navigation map - provided it is a public charger and "you must have regular business hours, the ability to accommodate the public with goods and services and have full-time employees on site during those hours."
Commercial Charging | Tesla
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techzelle
Member
Soon refers to property owners setting the price themselves.
Right now, Tesla is setting the price at 25 cents per kW.
Oh really? Where did you hear about that? From your previous thread, you just told about how it was charging, but you never got to talk with anyone to find out any details about how it was set up or who had set it up that way or who was setting the prices. As far as we have seen, it could be anyone. Why do you think it's Tesla that set the price?
techzelle
Member
Says right in the last photo "Property managers will soon be able to set the price of charging sessions.." So that means Tesla is setting the price at the moment.
I had no idea who set the price until I read that on the website.
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No, I'm pretty sure it means that it can't be set up to bill at all right now, but it remains planned to be a future capability. And when it's enabled, property managers will be able to set the price. I'm aware of your experience from the thread you started about it, but it's been 10 months since then and that remains the only instance it's ever been reported. And I've searched. The only hits I've found are your TMC thread, your blog, a bunch of "news" articles talking about the capability after Tesla announced it, and a bunch of other threads/posts speculating about it as a future possibility after people read those articles.
But once is never, twice is always. Until you can point out another instance where someone has reported having been billed for using a TWC, it is unreasonable to read that statement as "Tesla setting the price currently, but you'll have the option in the future." If this was something that was a working product in wide release then there would be multiple mentions of it here on TMC, on Reddit, etc.
That doesn't mean that at all. They are describing how future functionality can work. And maybe that is exactly how it IS working. This may be an early release of that software, exactly how it will work once it is widely deployed. So maybe it is the property owner who set it at that place. Neither of us know, and your speculation and guessing is as good as mine, since neither of us has any information.
techzelle
Member
Of course it can be set up to bill, I have a dated receipt.
You are making two separate points.
1. how many billing-enabled wall connectors exist. I found only one.
I'd be surprised if there is only one installation. There is nothing special about the location.
Other installations may have signs about billing. There are no unexpected charges, so people don't report it.
Also, there just aren't that many Gen3 public wall connectors in the wild. The vast majority I found were the non-billable Gen2 wall connectors.
And of those that are out there, only some smaller percentage would be billing-enabled.
Most businesses don't know about this program or prefer to offer free charging to attract customers. Those that want to charge, go with ChargePoint or similar, who work with all cars, not just Teslas.
Finally on their website, they say "We’ve made the process of hosting Commercial Charging fully self-service."
How does one have a self-service process for something that does not yet exist?
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2. Who is setting the prices.
Per current statement, property managers can't set the price themselves. That means Tesla configured the price I paid.
That doesn't rule out some dialog beforehand with the property owner as to what the initial price will be. It only means property owners can't change that price themselves. That makes sense because there would need to be additional controls on how high a price can be, how often it can change, how to notify car owners of current price, etc.
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Except there clearly IS something special about the installation, namely it's the only one in known existence that bills the users. That is the whole point. Right now it looks like a unicorn and the default assumption should be that it's unique. If you, or anyone else, experiences or finds reports of a second location billing then it becomes a horse. Until that happens, the most likely situation is that the site you used is part of Tesla's testing and is the only site in the wild running the experimental firmware that allows billing. We know that Tesla has absolutely no problem announcing/marketing/selling future capabilities as though they were currently available when they are not, e.g. Tesla always marketed the Gen 3 units as being capable of power sharing up to 16 units. For more than a year they couldn't share AT ALL, and they still can't share between 16 units (on current firmware the max is still 4 units, currently). Has any of that stopped Tesla from saying it? No.
I don't care who's setting the price at the test location. My point is that there's no evidence that commercial property owners wanting to buy Gen 3 units for charging can currently set up their units to support billing, even if it's Tesla setting the price.
I didn't see anyone question that at all. You have a whole thread about how you did get billed. Everyone knows about it.
You should be very surprised. It's very special in that it's the only one that has been reported. The location isn't the important part. There are many thousands of rabid, passionate, obessive Tesla owners in many countries who inspect every kind of thing, and would definitely have reported it, and the place it would have been reported is definitely right here.
Tesla wall connectors have never had this capability before, so it would be a stunning first. I just saw a thread where someone was shocked and offended about idle fees at a Supercharger, and that has been around for many years.
...because it's not available. All of the known software releases for the Gen3 wall connector DO NOT DO THIS. No one seems to know how this was done.
I was already going to bring up the sharing feature, but @mociaf9 did. Their manual stated as matter of fact in present tense (not future) that the wall connectors already can share between up to 16 of them. That took over a year to get deployed and then still wasn't what the manual had already described. They have also updated car manuals with descriptions of features in present tense before the software actually gets distributed to any cars. So there is precedent for that.
You're begging for a Disagree here, but I'll spare you. No one knows. What statement? If you're referring to that one on the website, it says "We’ve made the process of hosting Commercial Charging fully self-service." So if it's self-service, why would you say the opposite, that they can't set it?
techzelle
Member
1. "I didn't see anyone question that at all."
mociaf9... "No, I'm pretty sure it means that it can't be set up to bill at all right now"
2. There is nothing special about the location.
It just happens to be one of the few installations out there.
a. property managers who want billing-enabled chargers choose ChargePoint which can charge all EV's, not just the Tesla subset.
b. vast majority of public Tesla wall connectors are Gen 2, incapable of billing. (old installations, or new ones that want to save money or who don't have wifi connectivity)
c. If other locations have proper signage or other notification, there is no news to report.
If there was a sign saying I was going to be billed, I would not have posted because there is no surprise.
d. This cannot be compared to "idle billing" which is ubiquitous, so of course a small percentage of people will whine.
e. Simply because no one has posted about another billing-enabled location, does not mean it does not exist.
Take note: This billing-enabled location exists right now. I have not shared the exact location. Many others have used it.
Yet, NOBODY else has posted about this location?
This is proof that a billing-enabled location can exist in the wild without a whole bunch of people posting about it.
f. Even if this were some test location, who tests with only one location??? You need at least a few test sites.
3 "All of the known software releases for the Gen3 wall connector DO NOT DO THIS."
Of course there is a known software release that does this, the one that billed me is running it.
You just have no idea what each software release supports.
4. "...something to the effect, manual is out of date or out of sync..."
So you're suggesting that the entire commercial charging section of the website is false or misleading? That such a service is not available for purchase? Quite the stretch..
5. For pricing, Tesla technically owns the price because they own the software. Whether property owners had any input as to what the price should be, or if they may someday be able to update the price on their own - who knows. I don't know why this is being discussed.. Other than, there has to be some control that stops a property owner from changing the price to $100/kw.
Self-service applies to getting yourself set up on the program. Tesla explicitly states that you can't configure in your own price right now ("soon") - so of course it isn't in the self-service software.
================================================
To cut down the bickering, let's distill this..
It seems the principle argument is whether or not there is only one billing-enabled location, because it is a test location, possibly running an unreleased software version.
I'm saying it isn't a test. It is a normal, live, production site. I suggest there are other locations. They're just rare for aforementioned reasons, and unreported because no one else notices or cares.
I sent a message to Tesla commercial services expressing interest in setting up my small apartment complex with billing-enabled chargers...
If you read their response, it is consistent with the Tesla website.
The billing-enabled service is available today, and you just need to follow the instructions to have your own billing-enabled location.
This is not vapor-ware, a test, nor some mistake. It's here.
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mociaf9... "No, I'm pretty sure it means that it can't be set up to bill at all right now"
2. There is nothing special about the location.
It just happens to be one of the few installations out there.
a. property managers who want billing-enabled chargers choose ChargePoint which can charge all EV's, not just the Tesla subset.
b. vast majority of public Tesla wall connectors are Gen 2, incapable of billing. (old installations, or new ones that want to save money or who don't have wifi connectivity)
c. If other locations have proper signage or other notification, there is no news to report.
If there was a sign saying I was going to be billed, I would not have posted because there is no surprise.
d. This cannot be compared to "idle billing" which is ubiquitous, so of course a small percentage of people will whine.
e. Simply because no one has posted about another billing-enabled location, does not mean it does not exist.
Take note: This billing-enabled location exists right now. I have not shared the exact location. Many others have used it.
Yet, NOBODY else has posted about this location?
This is proof that a billing-enabled location can exist in the wild without a whole bunch of people posting about it.
f. Even if this were some test location, who tests with only one location??? You need at least a few test sites.
3 "All of the known software releases for the Gen3 wall connector DO NOT DO THIS."
Of course there is a known software release that does this, the one that billed me is running it.
You just have no idea what each software release supports.
4. "...something to the effect, manual is out of date or out of sync..."
So you're suggesting that the entire commercial charging section of the website is false or misleading? That such a service is not available for purchase? Quite the stretch..
5. For pricing, Tesla technically owns the price because they own the software. Whether property owners had any input as to what the price should be, or if they may someday be able to update the price on their own - who knows. I don't know why this is being discussed.. Other than, there has to be some control that stops a property owner from changing the price to $100/kw.
Self-service applies to getting yourself set up on the program. Tesla explicitly states that you can't configure in your own price right now ("soon") - so of course it isn't in the self-service software.
================================================
To cut down the bickering, let's distill this..
It seems the principle argument is whether or not there is only one billing-enabled location, because it is a test location, possibly running an unreleased software version.
I'm saying it isn't a test. It is a normal, live, production site. I suggest there are other locations. They're just rare for aforementioned reasons, and unreported because no one else notices or cares.
I sent a message to Tesla commercial services expressing interest in setting up my small apartment complex with billing-enabled chargers...
If you read their response, it is consistent with the Tesla website.
The billing-enabled service is available today, and you just need to follow the instructions to have your own billing-enabled location.
This is not vapor-ware, a test, nor some mistake. It's here.
==================================================
Here is my suggestion for your site:
We recommend installing Tesla Connectors as an amenity for your residents. With that said, you can get started today.
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There is a distinction there. Is there that one? Yes. Can someone else do this and set one up like that now? We still haven't seen that.
"the only"
If there are other locations--more assumptions.
I am taking note. Have you SEEN other people visit that apartment complex who happen to have Teslas and HAVE used it? It's sounding like another assumption on your part.
Ha! I don't recall ever claiming that this was a good way to test or even an authorized test.
Yup, shot yourself down there. If it's unreleased, then that makes it not "known".
I already stated that clearly. An unreleased one. All of the released software versions don't offer that feature.
You are paying ridiculous word games here. You are proposing that if a customer can call Tesla and tell them to adjust the price, and they do, then that is the customer not having any control over the price because they weren't the ones who physically typed it in to the systems. That's not worth addressing.
No, it's not. We aren't wondering whether that's the only one. The principle question for all of us is HOW? and WHY? This unicorn appeared somehow, but no one seems to know who set this up or how they were able to do it or how it works.
Right--you have made clear that you have those assumptions.
How is that consistent? The website statements say it's a coming soon feature. That response you got says it's available right now. Those are conflicting.
Tesla's response seems to be more incorrect information. There still isn't a PUBLISHED software release that can do this. People don't have the option to set one up like this right now. This is not too surprising that Tesla still is having communication disconnects in this area, like they have a history of in a lot of areas.
techzelle
Member
@Rocky_H The reality is you have no facts yourself.
Yes, I have been back to the location quite a few times and have seen other Tesla's charging there. In fact, every time I have been there, including the day I was billed, there were other Tesla's charging there. It's a rather busy location.
There are also Teslas that are parked but not plugged in. I do check because I am still offended by my $1.50 bill.
There was even that one, as I reported, a non-Tesla attempting to charge via a 3rd party adapter. It was plugged in okay, but not charging (solid blue light).
You hinge so much of your position on the idea that lots of people will post about encountering a billing-enabled wall connector.
So please explain to me why none of these other people have posted about being charged.
One more point for me was that I was using the wall connector for free for a couple months before they turned on billing. That was a surprise for me. Newer people won't have this history, and just think billing is normal. If I were billed the very first time I charged, I might not have posted myself. People don't tend to post about normal events.
2. You don't seem too familiar with software development.
Nonetheless, let's go with your unsubstantiated claim that it runs "unreleased" software.
What difference does it make?
For a second location, they can just run this same "unreleased" software.
All the billing functionality is on the Tesla servers triggered by serial number. It's not at the wall connector level.
But again, the version label is irrelevant.
3. Where do you see on the Tesla website that it says the entire billing-enabled wall connector is coming soon?
It only refers to the specific capability of property owners setting their own price.
The email is consistent with the website = Get your wall chargers then fill out the application form. The email even says "get started today". Nothing suggests this is "coming soon".
Did Tesla mislead me with that email?
Is it your contention that at some point down the line after I put in the wall chargers and filled out the form, Tesla was going to say, sorry just kidding?
That's frankly, preposterous. Help me with the timeline as to when Tesla was going to inform me that billing-enabled was "coming soon"?
Yes, I have been back to the location quite a few times and have seen other Tesla's charging there. In fact, every time I have been there, including the day I was billed, there were other Tesla's charging there. It's a rather busy location.
There are also Teslas that are parked but not plugged in. I do check because I am still offended by my $1.50 bill.
There was even that one, as I reported, a non-Tesla attempting to charge via a 3rd party adapter. It was plugged in okay, but not charging (solid blue light).
You hinge so much of your position on the idea that lots of people will post about encountering a billing-enabled wall connector.
So please explain to me why none of these other people have posted about being charged.
One more point for me was that I was using the wall connector for free for a couple months before they turned on billing. That was a surprise for me. Newer people won't have this history, and just think billing is normal. If I were billed the very first time I charged, I might not have posted myself. People don't tend to post about normal events.
2. You don't seem too familiar with software development.
Nonetheless, let's go with your unsubstantiated claim that it runs "unreleased" software.
What difference does it make?
For a second location, they can just run this same "unreleased" software.
All the billing functionality is on the Tesla servers triggered by serial number. It's not at the wall connector level.
But again, the version label is irrelevant.
3. Where do you see on the Tesla website that it says the entire billing-enabled wall connector is coming soon?
It only refers to the specific capability of property owners setting their own price.
The email is consistent with the website = Get your wall chargers then fill out the application form. The email even says "get started today". Nothing suggests this is "coming soon".
Did Tesla mislead me with that email?
Is it your contention that at some point down the line after I put in the wall chargers and filled out the form, Tesla was going to say, sorry just kidding?
That's frankly, preposterous. Help me with the timeline as to when Tesla was going to inform me that billing-enabled was "coming soon"?
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