It's getting annoying where every cycle I'm losing more and more. Just charged it from 50 to 90 and I lost another .6kw
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Getting pissed with degredation
- Thread starter KetchupKilla
- Start date
Charging as we speak from 38% to 90%. If I lose more range after this cycle I’ll be really pissed.
And then what, will you do after being "pissed"? Honest question. after getting mad about this, what is the next step?
I know. Every time I do a fairly deep discharge and charge back up to 90% my range goes down. Sorry but I’ll remain pissed. The recent range loss occurred with 1700 miles on the odometer. I’ll post my range after the current charge. Ketchup Killah is experiencing the same thing. I think he’s rightly pissed too.
Self loathe. Honestly I love the car, I don't love the experience I'm having though. I planned on the cyber truck and a model y for the wife, but I'm starting to rethink all of this. Used 60% of my battery driving today with a one hour stop 230wh/m driving 166 miles.
There is no need to apologize. If you want to be mad, thats all on you. I just personally couldnt do that. If I was as mad as you guys sound like you are, I would sell the car, and buy something else that wouldnt make me mad (since there is zero that you can do about this, unless and until it reaches 30% degredation, measured by teslas own tools).
EDIT: NOTE.. before you or anyone else thats "pissed" jumps on me, I am not saying "dont worry about it"... that is NOT what I am saying. I am saying 'I" (not anyone else) couldnt be that mad about something that I couldnt control. If my car made me mad, I would get rid of it and get a car that didnt make me mad. That would work for "ME". Obviously some would rather keep the car and be mad about it.
To each his or her own.
I don't want to get rid of the car but I feel like I'm on my way there at this point.
roblab
Active Member
So... it's not a cell phone battery. Batteries have many pluses and minuses, and there are many battery iterations for each required function. Near thirty for lithium ion cells alone. Your phone uses tiny amounts of battery so needs a tiny battery, while the Tesla uses tons of charge to drive a two ton car. Not the same thing at all.
For instance, a lead-acid battery will degrade faster and do less and weigh more than a lithium battery, but they're cheap, so they're still in use. There's a lead-acid battery in the Tesla.
And you're saying you have about 1000 cycles, which might mean two full charges per day, but probably not. That's about two to three years, maybe more. Lithium ion battery lifespan is measured in weeks and years, not charge cycles, and in three years one would expect seven to fifteen percent degradation. Exactly where you are.
I hope you're able to learn to deal with this. It's entirely normal. If not, sell the car and get a gas burner so you'll be happy. Some people never could get used to driving a car over riding a horse, either.
I'm going to try letting the car sit at a low so for a few hours before charging and see if anything comes of it
hate to psychoanalyze but i'm thinking this OCD behavior stems from some unrelated underlying issue in your life. perhaps get another hobby to obsess over?
Personally, I'd say that that in-use smartphones experience somewhat similar loads to an in-use Model 3. That claim definitely warrants explanation and probably sounds asinine, so an explanation I shall provide (in reference to a Long Range Model 3).
Let's say my phone lasts about 8 hours with the screen on. We call that a 1/8 "C-rate". It is a measure of the power consumption relative to the size of the battery. Discharging 100% in 1 hour is 1C. All else held equal, the C rate is comparable between batteries that are dissimilar in capacity. That is, a "huge" battery at 1C and a "small" battery at 1C experience the same internal stresses, roughly.
While driving, the C-rate of Model 3 depends how fast you're going. At 50km/h (in-town speeds) I get about 124Wh/km right now in summer. You can multiply that to simply get W (watts), which is 6200W or 6.2kW. That is indeed a lot of power, but corresponds to a C-rate of only 1/12 (actually, lower than that) since the battery is so large.
On highway trips, let's say 100km/h, I get about 132Wh/km pretty consistently. That's 13.2kW, corresponding to just over 1/6C, which is just a bit higher than the phone.
Anything under roughly 0.5C (1/2C) is pretty nicely managed by Li-ion cells without too much detriment. It's true the Model 3 will see peak loads higher than this, but so will the phone (higher brightness settings, "flashlight", etc.).
Given this claim of mine, you'd expect the Model 3 to only last 3 years since it's apparently just like a phone! But I will focus now on this point you made, which is 99.9% wrong: "Lithium ion battery lifespan is measured in weeks and years, not charge cycles, and in three years one would expect seven to fifteen percent degradation."
Almost all battery lifetime analysis is in cycle count, and then other factors compared to cycle count in those conditions. For example, you can ask "is it better to do 1000 discharges of 100-0% (1000 cycles, 100% depth of discharge) or 2000 discharges of 100-50% (still 1000 cycles, but 50% depth of discharge)". Or battery storage temperature. Or discharge rate. Or charge rate. Etc. One of these things can be years, but that has a very small impact (especially since, for Model 3, we keep them in fairly optimal states of charge).
Li-ion batteries stored (not used at all) in optimal conditions for years will generally fare very, very well in retained capacity. Had they been in active use, that's a completely different story. And just how much they are used (cycle count) plays a very important role.
Circling back to my point finally, the depth of discharge per day between an average smartphone and a Model 3 is completely different. While they might have similar C-rates (about 1/8) while in use, they are in use for completely different amounts of time per day. You often need to charge your smartphone every day, but could technically drive your commute for multiple days with a full charge on Model 3. This is because the depth of discharge is less per day, and thus the cycle count is less per year, leading to a longer lifetime in years. Lifetime alone is not the primary factor here.
Yikes, I really need to work on being succinct.
Thanks Ketchup. I charged from 30% to 90%. Range keeps going down. I don’t see this coming back.
30 to 90 isn't a deep discharge.
Get it under 10%, let the battery cool down for a few hours, then charge it to 100. Give it an hour or two and then drive it down to 90%.
It brought mine back from the grave! It takes a few cycles.
Also, I get lambasted for saying this, but almost every time I supercharge my range gets knocked down a bit. I have no idea why.
Get it under 10%, let the battery cool down for a few hours, then charge it to 100. Give it an hour or two and then drive it down to 90%.
It brought mine back from the grave! It takes a few cycles.
Also, I get lambasted for saying this, but almost every time I supercharge my range gets knocked down a bit. I have no idea why.
diamond.g
Active Member
I noticed my range improve after I started charging to 80% instead of 90%.
Just put it on percent and enjoy. That's what they all say. I do put it on percent but that doesn't change what is happening.I mean, I guess losing 12% of your range in less than 12 months is acceptable, right?
View attachment 586045
I always use %... 99% of my driving is in the city anyways, so it's not a big deal. Just need it to not blow up on me until they release a faster model 3 and I can trade it in.
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