Getting Really Frustrated

[Bobfitz1]

Gregd, your ideas sound very good to me. As our Roadsters age parts availability and unrealistic cost to replace a bad PEM is worrisome. I'd bet that most bad PEMs could be diagnosed and fixed by a good electrical tech w knowledge of power electronics for 1/10 price of a Tesla refurbished PEM.

Getting Tesla to go along with your ideas is another story given the scope of their ambitions and challenges. Maybe early 2019 after Model 3 is shipping and ramping well, one or more TMC heavy hitters like Bonnie might be able to get them to work some or all of these out for the Roadster owners.

BTW, do you know where things stand now as far as replacement carbon fiber body parts? Will their stocks of those run out soon? If a Roadster gets in a fender bender and needs replacement panels, will the owner be out of luck?

 

[gregd]

Gregd, your ideas sound very good to me. As our Roadsters age parts availability and unrealistic cost to replace a bad PEM is worrisome. I'd bet that most bad PEMs could be diagnosed and fixed by a good electrical tech w knowledge of power electronics for 1/10 price of a Tesla refurbished PEM.

Getting Tesla to go along with your ideas is another story given the scope of their ambitions and challenges. Maybe early 2019 after Model 3 is shipping and ramping well, one or more TMC heavy hitters like Bonnie might be able to get them to work some or all of these out for the Roadster owners.

BTW, do you know where things stand now as far as replacement carbon fiber body parts? Will their stocks of those run out soon? If a Roadster gets in a fender bender and needs replacement panels, will the owner be out of luck?

Bob, to answer your second point first, I don't have any information about body parts other than what I have read on this forum. They're apparently picking through what little inventory is left, and it's a matter of luck to get something that's in good shape. As I said, I don't know what can reasonably be done, and that's worrisome. I suppose it's another reason to drive more carefully...

Getting Tesla to cooperate with the rest of the idea will partly depend on us. Pushing, "escalating" may be a better word, through the Service Center back to the factory is the best way I can think of to get our voice heard. It won't work every time, but with every success, we build a body of evidence that shows how it can work. If nothing else, perhaps future cars will benefit from better serviceability if they hear our voice now.

We all "know" that these cars are inherently more reliable than their mechanical cousins, but when they do fail, the cost of ownership average takes a big hit. That, eventually, will come to roost on the bottom line (theirs, when under warranty, ours after). My thought is that we need to hold them to that promise of reduced cost through transparency after the warranty expires. To their publicity benefit, I expect they can use this (lower) cost to support their claims, which may be something they could be reminded of as part of the escalation process...

 

[dpeilow]

@gregd your post is absolutely spot on.

 

[ecarfan]

A third party has already created their own Roadster PEM. Drive eO created one for their Pikes Peak Roadster. Their car was 360kW (483 hp) and 800 Nm (590 ft lbs) peak. In addition to being drastically higher power than Tesla's, their PEM looks smaller.
Tesla Roadster 360 by Drive eO

I disagree with the sentiment that air cooling is adequte for the PEM. That might be true in moderate climates, but in places with a hot summer (like Texas), the PEM cooling is insufficient. My PEM hits the red first, then my battery and finally my motor.

I think the ideal solution is to replace the Roadster's whole drivetrain with a Model S drivetrain. Even better, wait a while longer and stick in the Model 3's drivetrain. Then everything is liquid cooled and more reliable.

Yes that might be be "ideal", but it is not a realistic approach for Tesla. The engineering work required would be extensive and the Roadster body modifications would be extensive. It would be extremely expensive for Tesla to do that.

What Drive eO did was very cool but it has little application in the real world of production cars being driven on public roads. Race cars do not have to meet government regulations and safety requirements such as the US DOT rules.

I do not see any indication that Drive eO is offering their custom PEM for sale to Roadster owners. Of course then they would have to provide a warranty and worldwide service and support. It's not as simple as you make it out to be.

 

[bolosky]

I got the car back today. Tesla didn't charge me for the second service visit for the fan problem, which is very nice. I have to say that while I've been really unhappy with all of the problems with the car, Tesla service has treated me really well.

With some luck, I'll not have anymore problems for a long while. It could happen.

 

[strider]

For my daily use the air-cooled PEM works very well, its a 1.5 so I don't have issues with dirty PEM fans and clogged ducts.

The only time the air cooling system is inadequate for aggressive street driving is when it's dirty.

Says a guy from the SF Bay Area and a guy from Vermont, 2 places with incredibly mild summers Having just moved from the SF Bay Area to Oklahoma I can tell you that the car was not built for this climate. The battery pump literally has not shut off for the entire month I've been here. Every time I walk into the garage I can hear it humming. My Tesla Tattler puts the car in Performance mode automatically when I drive and the only time it's not been Red was when driving through a thunderstorm and it was 78F outside. I also never get any A/C in the cabin as it is always in bypass mode to keep the battery cool.

I am quite worried about the PEM as electronics dislike heat. I've been thinking about trying to tap into the coolant reservoir since it's right there and install some kind of blanket in the PEM through which coolant could flow but haven't looked into it in earnest.

 

[shrink]

Having just moved from the SF Bay Area to Oklahoma I can tell you that the car was not built for this climate.

Living in Phoenix, I'd have to agree. I don't use Performance much, but when I do, it's always in the red. Keeping the battery cool and at a safer SOC this time of year is quite the challenge. That said, even with our heat, I am getting a reasonable amount of cooling in the cabin. Putting on the hardtop over the summer has helped quite a bit.

I've thought about selling my car to someone who would appreciate it and could care for it better in a cooler climate, but I just can't pull the trigger.

 

[gregd]

The battery pump literally has not shut off for the entire month I've been here. Every time I walk into the garage I can hear it humming.

Have you tried a "cool down cycle"? The OVMS can do it, or just run a Range Mode charge for about a short time (starting with an SOC in the middle, so as not to over charge), then turn it off. Range Mode puts an emphasis on cooling the battery first (so as to pack more electrons in), generally leaving the battery cool enough after 30 minutes to an hour for the pump to turn off. I do the charge at 24A / 240V (my home rate) for about 45 minutes, and even on really hot days in the central California heat, I can get it to turn off.

 

[strider]

Have you tried a "cool down cycle"? The OVMS can do it, or just run a Range Mode charge for about a short time (starting with an SOC in the middle, so as not to over charge), then turn it off. Range Mode puts an emphasis on cooling the battery first (so as to pack more electrons in), generally leaving the battery cool enough after 30 minutes to an hour for the pump to turn off. I do the charge at 24A / 240V (my home rate) for about 45 minutes, and even on really hot days in the central California heat, I can get it to turn off.

Hi Greg. Thanks for the advice. I just had my 14-50's installed today so I've been charging on 120V all month. A/C won't run when charging on 120V (unless the battery goes over 40C). Now that I have a 14-50 I'll run a cool down this evening.

 

[gregd]

Hi Greg. Thanks for the advice. I just had my 14-50's installed today so I've been charging on 120V all month. A/C won't run when charging on 120V (unless the battery goes over 40C). Now that I have a 14-50 I'll run a cool down this evening.

Yep, that will do it. Good luck!