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Tesla's Supercharger Team was recently laid off. We discuss what this means for the company on today's TMC Podcast streaming live at 1PM PDT. You can watch on X or on YouTube where you can participate in the live chat.
Green New Deal
- Thread starter mspohr
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How the Covid-19 pandemic will leave its mark on US health care
Our decentralized system, with independent providers and many different payers, was not nimble in responding to this stealthy pathogen. These problems weren’t the only reason more than half a million people in the United States have contracted Covid-19 and tens of thousands have died. But America was particularly fertile ground for a virus to run wild.
Only in America could a man and daughter placed under mandatory government quarantine then be hit with a $4,000 hospital bill. Only in America could somebody without health insurance — a situation, all on its own, foreign to other rich countries — receive a bill for Covid-19 treatment that tops $30,000. Only in America would a dying patient ask in his final breaths who will pay for the care that could not prevent his death. The US is the richest country in the world, and yet millions are uninsured or have insufficient benefits. It has fewer hospital beds, doctors, and nurses per capita than its economic peers.
Our decentralized system, with independent providers and many different payers, was not nimble in responding to this stealthy pathogen. These problems weren’t the only reason more than half a million people in the United States have contracted Covid-19 and tens of thousands have died. But America was particularly fertile ground for a virus to run wild.
Only in America could a man and daughter placed under mandatory government quarantine then be hit with a $4,000 hospital bill. Only in America could somebody without health insurance — a situation, all on its own, foreign to other rich countries — receive a bill for Covid-19 treatment that tops $30,000. Only in America would a dying patient ask in his final breaths who will pay for the care that could not prevent his death. The US is the richest country in the world, and yet millions are uninsured or have insufficient benefits. It has fewer hospital beds, doctors, and nurses per capita than its economic peers.
So there would be no reason to save for your own retirement. Just spend everything you make and expect the government take care you when you retire, get sick, lose your job, etc.
I never did say that I had 2.5M but that honestly is a goal of mine - and should be anybodies who lives a lifestyle that could afford a Tesla.
Is saying someone who saves for retirement should leave the country a nice thing to say?
If you aren't on track to be worth $2.5M at retirement (including RE), you probably should be driving a used leaf (or equiv) if at all possible. That is just sound financial advice.
If everyone worth over $2.5M retired off shore, how much would the wealth tax generate?
Wealth taxes exist to some extent - they are called property taxes. They went up a lot with the latest tax reform - because their deductibility went away. And some modest and progressive wealth tax is not a horrible idea. Not the only option and not necessarily the best one. What percentage of developed countries have a wealth tax? Not many (4 I think).
Make revenue by taxing pollution/carbon. Consumption taxes. Meat taxes. Sugar taxes. Tobacco. Alcohol.
All of these is a bit OT. Bernie is done. There is zero appetite to elect a radical - we are lucky if we can get Trump out. So go ahead and push a wealth tax - it isn't going to happen. And certainly not at the $2.5M level.
Is saying someone who saves for retirement should leave the country a nice thing to say?
If you aren't on track to be worth $2.5M at retirement (including RE), you probably should be driving a used leaf (or equiv) if at all possible. That is just sound financial advice.
If everyone worth over $2.5M retired off shore, how much would the wealth tax generate?
Wealth taxes exist to some extent - they are called property taxes. They went up a lot with the latest tax reform - because their deductibility went away. And some modest and progressive wealth tax is not a horrible idea. Not the only option and not necessarily the best one. What percentage of developed countries have a wealth tax? Not many (4 I think).
Make revenue by taxing pollution/carbon. Consumption taxes. Meat taxes. Sugar taxes. Tobacco. Alcohol.
All of these is a bit OT. Bernie is done. There is zero appetite to elect a radical - we are lucky if we can get Trump out. So go ahead and push a wealth tax - it isn't going to happen. And certainly not at the $2.5M level.
In the midst of an economic crisis, can 'degrowth' provide an answer?
In the midst of an economic crisis, can 'degrowth' provide an answer? | Lola Seaton
Amid the misery and chaos caused by the coronavirus pandemic, there are some short-term consolations. The precipitous drop in road and air traffic has left the air cleaner and the skies clearer. For advocates of a Green New Deal (GND) – a vast, state-funded green infrastructure project, including a total transition to renewable energy and the construction of mass transit systems – there are reasons to be optimistic. As the severity of the unfolding global recession becomes clear – the IMF predicts a 3% global contraction – the GND looks like the best route to recovery.
Which goods and services are indispensable, and which would we be better off without? Degrowth and the GND offer different answers to this question – from green infrastructure construction to the care economy – but they both pose it, as well as raising important broader questions about how, how much and why we work. Once it is safe to emerge from economic survival mode, I hope we will have the wisdom to follow the lead of both movements by systematically reflecting on which kinds of productive activity actually enrich our lives – and which among these our planet can sustain.
In the midst of an economic crisis, can 'degrowth' provide an answer? | Lola Seaton
Amid the misery and chaos caused by the coronavirus pandemic, there are some short-term consolations. The precipitous drop in road and air traffic has left the air cleaner and the skies clearer. For advocates of a Green New Deal (GND) – a vast, state-funded green infrastructure project, including a total transition to renewable energy and the construction of mass transit systems – there are reasons to be optimistic. As the severity of the unfolding global recession becomes clear – the IMF predicts a 3% global contraction – the GND looks like the best route to recovery.
Which goods and services are indispensable, and which would we be better off without? Degrowth and the GND offer different answers to this question – from green infrastructure construction to the care economy – but they both pose it, as well as raising important broader questions about how, how much and why we work. Once it is safe to emerge from economic survival mode, I hope we will have the wisdom to follow the lead of both movements by systematically reflecting on which kinds of productive activity actually enrich our lives – and which among these our planet can sustain.
JRP3
Hyperactive Member
Maybe, but the average purchase price of a vehicle is about $35K, the price of the base Model 3, and the average person doesn't retire with anywhere near 2.5 million.
$110 Trillion Renewables Stimulus Package Could Create 50 Million Jobs | OilPrice.com
The International Renewable Energy Agency (IRENA)--an organization dedicated to promoting global adoption of renewable energy and facilitating sustainable use--says that it will cost the global economy $95 trillion to help return things to normal.
Investing $110 trillion in renewables could, on the other hand, potentially spur an even more robust economic recovery from COVID-19 by creating massive socioeconomic gains as well as generate savings of $50 trillion-$142 trillion by 2050.
The International Renewable Energy Agency (IRENA)--an organization dedicated to promoting global adoption of renewable energy and facilitating sustainable use--says that it will cost the global economy $95 trillion to help return things to normal.
Investing $110 trillion in renewables could, on the other hand, potentially spur an even more robust economic recovery from COVID-19 by creating massive socioeconomic gains as well as generate savings of $50 trillion-$142 trillion by 2050.
This Is Why We Need To Build Back Better For A More Sustainable Future
Low-carbon investments would deliver savings eight times as high as their costs when you take into account improvements to people’s health and improvements to the environment – benefits that we are seeing during the lockdown in the form of reduced air pollution and less traffic.
And while there will be job losses in fossil fuel sectors, the economy as a whole will see net job gains. “The nature of this crisis calls for a major state role in the response. Economies need more than a kick-start. They need stable assets, including an inclusive energy system that supports low-carbon development. Otherwise, even with the global slowdown momentarily reducing CO2 emissions, the eventual rebound may restore the long-term trend. Fossil-fuel investments would continue polluting the air, adding to healthcare costs and locking in unsustainable practices.
Low-carbon investments would deliver savings eight times as high as their costs when you take into account improvements to people’s health and improvements to the environment – benefits that we are seeing during the lockdown in the form of reduced air pollution and less traffic.
And while there will be job losses in fossil fuel sectors, the economy as a whole will see net job gains. “The nature of this crisis calls for a major state role in the response. Economies need more than a kick-start. They need stable assets, including an inclusive energy system that supports low-carbon development. Otherwise, even with the global slowdown momentarily reducing CO2 emissions, the eventual rebound may restore the long-term trend. Fossil-fuel investments would continue polluting the air, adding to healthcare costs and locking in unsustainable practices.
True. The average person shouldn't be buying a new car - and they don't for the most part.
And the ASP of a Model 3 is certainly higher. And you probably should have a garage on a house that you own - skewing the "average" person a bit.
But, no question, I am still in S/X land.
And lastly, math isn't people's strong suit often enough and neither is rational behavior. I would argue that one shouldn't have a model 3 even (since it was basically purchased for new price no matter what) without a house worth at least 10 times the car and a salary of at least 5 times the car. And that person should be on their way to having $2.5M in retirement (RE included). Exceptions abound of course but for the most part.
Big exception would be terminal illness. Another exception would be high dollar renter in large city.
Any society that allows itself to become radically unequal eventually collapses into an uprising or a police state—or both. Join venture capitalist Nick Hanauer and some of the world’s leading economic and political thinkers in an exploration of who gets what and why. Turns out, everything you learned about economics is wrong. And if we don’t do something about rising inequality, the pitchforks are coming.
Pitchfork Economics
Pitchfork Economics
Covid-19 pandemic shines a light on a new kind of class divide and its inequalities
Covid-19 pandemic shines a light on a new kind of class divide and its inequalities
The Covid-19 pandemic is putting the deepening class divide in America into stark relief. Four new classes are emerging.
Not surprisingly, the Essentials, the Unpaid, and the Forgotten are disproportionately poor, black, and Latino and they are disproportionately becoming infected.
The Remotes among us should be concerned, and not just because of the unfairness of the Covid-19 class divide. If the Essentials aren’t sufficiently protected, the Unpaid are forced back to work earlier than is safe, and if the Forgotten remain forgotten, no one is secure. Covid-19 will continue to spread sickness and death for months, if not years to come.
Covid-19 pandemic shines a light on a new kind of class divide and its inequalities
The Covid-19 pandemic is putting the deepening class divide in America into stark relief. Four new classes are emerging.
Not surprisingly, the Essentials, the Unpaid, and the Forgotten are disproportionately poor, black, and Latino and they are disproportionately becoming infected.
The Remotes among us should be concerned, and not just because of the unfairness of the Covid-19 class divide. If the Essentials aren’t sufficiently protected, the Unpaid are forced back to work earlier than is safe, and if the Forgotten remain forgotten, no one is secure. Covid-19 will continue to spread sickness and death for months, if not years to come.
Ronald Reagan’s 1986 wisecrack – “The nine most terrifying words in the English language are: I’m from the government and I’m here to help” – would not get a lot of laughs today. In much of the world, people are desperate for the government to show up and rise to the challenge of the coronavirus pandemic.
The antipathy to the state was selective: Reagan, like Donald Trump today, racked up huge deficits, spent heavily on defence and built up a system of corporate welfare through subsidies and tax breaks.
Some social scientists and historians argue that this pandemic could become a turning point in social history – on a par with the New Deal in the US or the post-war Labour government in the UK.
The coronavirus pandemic could also boost statism of another kind – more Big Brother than Great Society – by providing cover for governments to restrict civil liberties and entrench themselves in power, as Viktor Orbán has done in Hungary.
Milanovic cautioned, however, that it was also quite possible that a groundswell of support for a universal healthcare system and a much more robust social safety net might not be reflected in the US political system. He said: “What we would actually face in the US is an ever-increasing discrepancy between the demand for change, and the total absence of change.”
The state we're in: will the pandemic revolutionise the role of government?
The state we're in: will the pandemic revolutionise the role of government?
The antipathy to the state was selective: Reagan, like Donald Trump today, racked up huge deficits, spent heavily on defence and built up a system of corporate welfare through subsidies and tax breaks.
Some social scientists and historians argue that this pandemic could become a turning point in social history – on a par with the New Deal in the US or the post-war Labour government in the UK.
The coronavirus pandemic could also boost statism of another kind – more Big Brother than Great Society – by providing cover for governments to restrict civil liberties and entrench themselves in power, as Viktor Orbán has done in Hungary.
Milanovic cautioned, however, that it was also quite possible that a groundswell of support for a universal healthcare system and a much more robust social safety net might not be reflected in the US political system. He said: “What we would actually face in the US is an ever-increasing discrepancy between the demand for change, and the total absence of change.”
The state we're in: will the pandemic revolutionise the role of government?
The state we're in: will the pandemic revolutionise the role of government?
'Heads we win, tails you lose': how America's rich have turned pandemic into profit
'Heads we win, tails you lose': how America's rich have turned pandemic into profit
Some of the richest people in the US have been at the front of the queue as the government has handed out trillions of dollars to prop up an economy it shuttered amid the coronavirus pandemic. At the same time, the billionaire class has added $308bn to its wealth in four weeks - even as a record 26 million people lost their jobs.
Collins said the pandemic had further exposed fault lines in the US body politic that have been widening the gap between the really rich and the rest over decades.
Meanwhile, billionaires have been unable to put a well-heeled foot wrong. Billionaire wealth soared 1,130% in 2020 dollars between 1990 and 2020, according to the Institute for Policy Studies. That increase is more than 200 times greater than the 5.37% growth of median wealth in the US over this same period. And the tax obligations of America’s billionaires, measured as a percentage of their wealth, decreased 79% between 1980 and 2018.
'Heads we win, tails you lose': how America's rich have turned pandemic into profit
Some of the richest people in the US have been at the front of the queue as the government has handed out trillions of dollars to prop up an economy it shuttered amid the coronavirus pandemic. At the same time, the billionaire class has added $308bn to its wealth in four weeks - even as a record 26 million people lost their jobs.
Collins said the pandemic had further exposed fault lines in the US body politic that have been widening the gap between the really rich and the rest over decades.
Meanwhile, billionaires have been unable to put a well-heeled foot wrong. Billionaire wealth soared 1,130% in 2020 dollars between 1990 and 2020, according to the Institute for Policy Studies. That increase is more than 200 times greater than the 5.37% growth of median wealth in the US over this same period. And the tax obligations of America’s billionaires, measured as a percentage of their wealth, decreased 79% between 1980 and 2018.
Halt destruction of nature or suffer even worse pandemics, say world’s top scientists
Halt destruction of nature or suffer even worse pandemics, say world’s top scientists
It is the consequence of our persistent and excessive intrusion in nature and the vast illegal wildlife trade, and in particular the wildlife markets, the wet markets, of south Asia and bush meat markets of Africa,” he said. Earlier
A global “One Health” approach must also be expanded, they said. “The health of people is intimately connected to the health of wildlife, the health of livestock and the health of the environment. It’s actually one health,” said Daszak.in April, a major study found that the human impact on wildlife was to blame for the spread of viruses
Halt destruction of nature or suffer even worse pandemics, say world’s top scientists
It is the consequence of our persistent and excessive intrusion in nature and the vast illegal wildlife trade, and in particular the wildlife markets, the wet markets, of south Asia and bush meat markets of Africa,” he said. Earlier
A global “One Health” approach must also be expanded, they said. “The health of people is intimately connected to the health of wildlife, the health of livestock and the health of the environment. It’s actually one health,” said Daszak.in April, a major study found that the human impact on wildlife was to blame for the spread of viruses
Robert Reich on the climate crisis solution no one is talking about
Green Jobs
Stop dirty energy
Stop fossil fuel companies from corrupting politics
Make them pay
Green Jobs
Stop dirty energy
Stop fossil fuel companies from corrupting politics
Make them pay
Without fossil fuels we would not have our modern society. I guess for many, like Robert Reich, they would be happy because there would be several billion less people on earth without fossil fuels. On negative is there would not be any trees left because they would have all been used for fuel. As far as weather events being so much worse here are the facts.
https://www.jpands.org/vol14no4/goklany.pdf
nwdiver
Well-Known Member
That's rather idiotic and pessimistic. So you're suggesting that there's a <1000 year timer on our society? Once the fools fuel is gone the party is over? No other way to get enough energy?
Rebuilding the West through bold investment in clean energy
Renewable energy development can be the catalyst for restoring our economic strength post-Covid-19. Founders of Navajo Power along with Kevin De Leon, Los Angeles City Council candidate, make their case.
Amid trying times and economic hardship like we are currently facing, it’s often difficult to find a silver lining, but it’s worth noting that bold projects that drive meaningful change have often sprung out of turmoil and crises. Take Hoover and Glen Canyon dams, for example, which rose from the depths of the Great Depression to put Americans to back to work and power the economic growth of the West.
Renewable energy development can be the catalyst for restoring our economic strength post-Covid-19. Founders of Navajo Power along with Kevin De Leon, Los Angeles City Council candidate, make their case.
Amid trying times and economic hardship like we are currently facing, it’s often difficult to find a silver lining, but it’s worth noting that bold projects that drive meaningful change have often sprung out of turmoil and crises. Take Hoover and Glen Canyon dams, for example, which rose from the depths of the Great Depression to put Americans to back to work and power the economic growth of the West.
That's rather idiotic and pessimistic. So you're suggesting that there's a <1000 year timer on our society? Once the fools fuel is gone the party is over? No other way to get enough energy?
There is no way that with the technology we had in the past would we have the lifestyle we have today without fossil fuels. I guess from a green perspective there also would be a few billion fewer people affecting the environment. The whole industrial revaluation was powered by fossil fuels. I live in the California Gold Country between Sacramento and Lake Tahoe This is a heavily forested area. During the Gold Rush basically all the trees were cut down to provide steam power for the mines. By the 1880's they were running out of trees and switched to water and then electricity mainly powered by coal.
So this has nothing to do with the finite energy reserves. Our current society is powered by what technology we had in the past. So what do you think our world would look like if we had never developed the use of fossil fuels??
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