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Hard, random highway breaking on autopilot

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Driving with my family on the highway yesterday afternoon at about 70mph on autopilot, my M3 suddenly hit the brakes hard, and sustained for what felt like a few seconds, though was probably just a second. I had to hit the accelerator to continue, and avoid being rear-ended. AP did not correct itself as I've encountered before with brief errors. It scared us and I feel lucky that we didn't get hit. Now I'm feeling skittish to keep using AP. Nothing was directly in front or merging into the path of the car. I've only been driving my M3 for a few months (c. 1k miles), but is this common? I was on 2020.24.6.4, just updated to 24.6.9.
 
Some people claim it happens to them many times a day.

Others than that it happens maybe a couple times a year.

And everywhere in between for others.

I'm much more toward the 'maybe a couple times a year' end of that spectrum- and I drive 90%+ of my miles on AP/FSD, mostly on highways/interstates... but YMMV.

FWIW- for years folks have insisted it's really dangerous (because many, like you, they perceive in the moment the braking is much longer and harder than it really is)- but in all those years I've yet to hear of a single actual accident caused by it.

(it's also a problem common to virtually all radar based cruise control systems- last time this came up and someone insisted it was a tesla-specific problem I cited to much WORSE issues with it from a number of other brands that have had actual recalls and lawsuits over it being that bad for em)
 
My month old 2020 S came with Autopilot though I never use it.

I DO use cruise control though. Or I should say I USED to. The sudden braking on highways and freeways drives me nuts. My old 2013 S had dumb cruise control and was a joy to use. This new radar/vision based system is so timid and lacks confidence to such a degree, it is unusable.

I fear someone in the car behind me will think I was maliciously brake-checking them triggering them to fly into a road rage.
 
Disable Autosteer in the options menu and re-enable it followed by a hard reboot after any update if Autopilot is not functioning properly. Only happened once to me in update months ago, tons of sudden stops and I haven't experienced phantom braking since I disabled Autosteer or it was fixed in another update.


I use Autopilot all the time on the freeway. Middle lane, set it and forget it. Flawless and amazing.
 
Thanks for chiming in, folks. I see there was another similar post back at the beginning of the month. I get why Tesla wouldn't advertise this apparently common glitch, but they should at least warn new drivers that it can happen when we take delivery.
 
Yea, it happens very rarely for me.

I you actually look at the speed change it usually isn’t that drastic, it just feels that way because it’s unexpected.

For me it’s only happened near overpasses and I suspect the car GPS is detecting the speed limit for the regular road above and is trying to slow down.

I do pay a little extra attention near overpasses, but other than that I don’t worry about it.
 
i had one phatom breaking happen when i was going over an underpass on the 101 and the camera saw the stop light up top. it slowed but then corrected itself in just the same amount of time. i was on autopilot. the car shipped with the medium setting from the factory and that was the only time since march 2020 i've had a phantom breaking incident and i have been working normally through all this mess. i use AP often here in LA.

the forward collision system is a warning system. its in many modern cars of today. it is its own system separate from the FSD and AEB.

to your point @Webeevdrivers ,

i was getting on the 5 to get on the 170. the 5 was *sugar* down at the 170 split, so everyone had to get over to the right to go on the 170, so traffic at 630 am here was banana pants.

so i was not on AP yet, but just trying to merge into the traffic, which was near a standstill.

as i was looking over my shoulder to get into traffic, the car in front of me stopped quickly as it was a car that got in front of them to try and get off the interstate, thus cutting them off.

the forward collision system made that loud yelp and the car applied brakes instantly! in this case that was a great job of the car because I was acceleration just slightly (under 10 miles per hour) but enough that had the forward system not been on, i would have hit the back of that car sure.
 
So about this. Are you saying that forward collision warning is actually not just a warning but actually connected to either AEB or Autopilot or both?

Thanks in advance.


I'm saying numerous owners have reported that changing the setting significantly reduces phantom braking- and indeed at least one person went and tested this making the same drive repeatedly with various settings and reported the results as setting that to early significantly increasing phantom braking events... (there wasn't as huge a difference between medium and late)

It'd be easy enough to test our yourself of course to see if you observe similar behavior
 
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Just now I was traveling on the freeway in the slow lane, using NOA, and approached a truck parked on the shoulder. He had orange hazard markers out. The car suddenly braked, possibly due to the truck, possibly due to its shadow in the road, I don’t know. But I checked the rearview mirror, and who is behind me but… A model 3. I hope s/he was sympathetic.
 
My experience with phantom braking has always been due to shadows cast by overpasses. At least, that's how it happens to me. With this last update the behavior changed somewhat. Instead of a hard deceleration, this last time it braked more subtly and then after a few seconds began to resume highway speed.
 
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The biggest issue I have with Phantom braking is there are a lot of sources of it, but the car doesn't tell you WHY it braked. The lack of knowing leads us to suspect various things. An example of this is blaming the forward collision warning setting. But, that doesn't make any sense from a UX perspective. A warning setting should have no impact on any system that causes an action. If I used a setting of early I'd probably experiment with changing it, but I use a setting of medium so I probably won't bother. I'm perfectly happy with that setting for the purpose of a warning so why bother?

The other issue with Phantom braking is different users have different preferences.

As an example I'd like a very basic TACC system that prioritized smoothness over everything else. Where it's job is to maintain the set speed/distance. Obviously I'm paying attention while driving with TACC so I don't want it to brake for vehicles that get too close to the line or for shadows. My preference is for a very radar dependent system where the camera is only used to correct for positioning of the moving objects the radar detects. I don't want the vehicle to even blink at shadow.

With AP I'm a little more okay with phantom braking, and with NoA I'm basically expecting that I'll have significant disagreements with it.

The problem is Tesla won't offer us this easy kind of solution where they tone down the safety stuff for basic TACC or basic AP.

Driving with TACC/AP feels very much like when a timid driver is behind the wheel. Where they get scared by any little thing, and it's not that they're a danger as much as an embarrassment. Even if their actions caused an accident the other guy gets blamed as they didn't maintain distance, and they're like "But, I wasn't expecting that car to suddenly stop in the middle the road".

As to the degree of false braking what I've noticed is its pretty proportional to the situation encountered. Like for example its known that it will slow down for Semi Trailers that get close to the line. I've seen this numerous times, and how much it brakes is dependent on speed differential. Where I typically encounter this is on I5 going to Portland where the speed limit for cars is 70mph, and its 60mph for trucks. For people not familiar with it this stretch of freeway is dominated by semi's. You'll pass hundreds of them which gives ample opportunity for TACC/AP to freak out. It's pretty typical that cars will be traveling at 80mph, and trucks will be stuck behind someone going 55mph. So there is a huge speed differential.

In my experience I typically get a few minor phantom braking glitches of <5mph on every round trip between Seattle, and Portland. I'll get a more significant one like once a trip. For comparison purposes in 2015 I had a Model S with AP1, and under TACC it hardly ever falsely braked doing the same trip. Another comparison is I have a 2019 Jeep Wrangler Unlimited with Adaptive Cruise Control, and I've never had a false braking event on the highway/freeway. I did have an AEB braking event with it though when going down a ramp. It freaked out because it was a sudden drop and it thought I was going to run into the building so I give it a pass on that one. I haven't experienced an AEB event with my Model 3. It prefers to annoy me with FCW. Typically it does this when the person in front of me is turning. It doesn't seem to have any concept of the future.
 
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