TMC is an independent, primarily volunteer organization that relies on ad revenue to cover its operating costs. Please consider whitelisting TMC on your ad blocker or making a Paypal contribution here: paypal.me/SupportTMC

help make the giant leap ???

Discussion in 'The UK and Ireland' started by blobert07, Feb 17, 2015.

  1. blobert07

    blobert07 Member

    Joined:
    Feb 17, 2015
    Messages:
    18
    Location:
    uk halifax
    Firstly great to think I will hopefully own a Tesla one day and stop the UK taxman taking All my money, however I am sales mager in the North west of England and Obviously the Range question is a huge worry. I wanted to know if anyone else drives up to 20 k miles a year mixed driving motorway then into the major cities etc. What is the real range of a S60 and S80 on full charge ?

    Then I have few dumb ?

    1. Real time charging both types on a normal UK socket
    2. What is the cost for a charger at home which increases the time, is it easy to install what do I need via my electricity supplier if any ?.
    3. Can you charge at other EV points eg Sainsbury etc etc
    4. Is there anyone leasing these on 15-20 k/year over 2 years max
    5. What are the insurance costs
    6.what delivery timescales are there on a new S60 or S80

    Lastly is there a Tesla owner in the North who is willing to help me understand the real ownership cost based on there own experiences ?

    Thx in advance


    Rob Halifax West Yorks
     
  2. smac

    smac Active Member

    Joined:
    Aug 4, 2013
    Messages:
    1,121
    Location:
    Nottinghamshire
    I have an S60, and work on the basis of 160 miles as my "safe" figure.

    For your other questions:
    1) A long time! Mine charges at around 6 miles per hour. So well over a day for a charge
    2) You should be able to get a home install done for free. There are plenty of good firms who will organise everything for you (ChargeMaster wouldn't be my first choice)
    3) Yes, but you need a special RFID card to use them, generally you have to buy one from the correct "network" (ChargeMaster, SourceLondon, CYC... ) It's a bit of a mess TBH
    4) Not me :) (I' looking like 9k PA max, and didn't finance)
    5) It's a group 50 car, so it will be more than a 5 series diesel.. How much more I couldn't say, it will depend on too many factors
    6) I think it's still around 3 months.


    hth

    Simon
     
  3. bp1000

    bp1000 Member

    Joined:
    Feb 14, 2015
    Messages:
    149
    Location:
    UK
    Rob I don't have mine yet but I've looked up insurance costs. I could only check the p85+ the car I will order is the p85d. The cost was £650. To put that in perspective I currently drive a jaguar xfr which i assume is in a similar group. However the xfr is £370 per year. On the cheap side anyway especially as I'm quite young at 31 but there definately seems to be a premium on the tesla for some reason.
     
  4. mgboyes

    mgboyes Member

    Joined:
    Apr 16, 2014
    Messages:
    811
    Location:
    United Kingdom
    @smac has covered many of these; just a few additional thoughts:

    4. I'd say the average annual mileage of a UK Model S owner is around 20k miles. Don't know about lease durations.
    5. Ignoring the P85D, pretty reasonable (somewhere in the mid-hundreds). P85D quotes are coming out high though (I've not heard of anyone getting a quote under £1000 yet).
    6. If you go in the design studio on the website and spec up a car it will give you a delivery estimate on the right hand side along with the price). This is reasonably accurate.

    I work on the basis of a comfortable 200 mile range in my P85 (I could totally get more than that if I need to, but the supercharger network means I don't need to try).

    The reality is that today the Model S is not especially well suited to the "mobile salesman/manager" type role, where frequent long distance driving between locations without much timing flexibility are the norm :-(
    The Model S may work for you, but the last thing that you want to do is end up with a car that you resent.
     
  5. smac

    smac Active Member

    Joined:
    Aug 4, 2013
    Messages:
    1,121
    Location:
    Nottinghamshire
    I agree with @MGBoyes about "suitability" of the Model S to your type of role (and I'm speculating somewhat based on the sales guys that work for me, I think they'd struggle running a Tesla).

    As it seems your primary goal is to save some money there are a number of things stacking up against someone in your position :
    - I wouldn't even begin to consider the S60, so you are into the S85 straight away, you need SC capability and range.
    - Really you'd want dual chargers, as well as the CHAdeMO adapter, to give you the best chance of on the road charging. Esp. in North West.
    - Unless you are prepared to use a TomTom, the Sat Nav requires the Tech Package to be usable.

    All this extra spend inevitably ends up on the finance payments.

    Right now you could probably get a diesel 5 Series/A6/E Class for around £300pcm (there's normally a lot of heavy discounting on the German stuff). A suitably spec'd Model S is probably £1k pcm+. It's a lot of fuel savings to make up.

    If you'd like to avoid the tax man, i.e. get a car that is BIK efficient, but has the same flexibility as your current car, a PHEV is probably a better bet. It will save you money as they are all cheaper than the Model S. (Ampera, A3 eTron, Golf GTE, Outlander PHEV)
     
  6. Scouser

    Scouser New Member

    Joined:
    Feb 18, 2015
    Messages:
    3
    Location:
    Liverpool UK
    suitability is always the thing to check. I travel from Liverpool to London at least once a week, and currently put about £500 per month of fuel in the car (average 50mpg) so that's the £1kpcm halved for a start.

    As this car is likely to get better with age due to upgrades in software, its the first car I am looking to invest in for a long time retention 9-10years at least. and the drive for me takes me past two easily accessible straight off the motorway SC one at Warrington the other Northampton. so a 20-30 minute stop for coffee each way and ill return home with a near full battery :) and to make even sweeter will still get mileage expenses from work each month in region of £350 per month, so over the 9-10 years the actual cost to me compared to running an ICE car is fantastically low
     
  7. blobert07

    blobert07 Member

    Joined:
    Feb 17, 2015
    Messages:
    18
    Location:
    uk halifax
    Many thx for the replies all useful info and can guarantee THAT

    - - - Updated - - -

    THAT if I could type properly that would be start !:wink:

    I note the pay off between cost to finance insure, I claim mileage from my company and I have done the maths and I would be £1650 out of pocket over the 2 years but sadly the monthly lease number is not what I calculated so its all gone west now ?

    I got to say I would jump into this technology but just too expensive for a Sales Manager who does have a few 300+ miles but normally 200 max on the M62/M60m56/m6 network I cover Lancashire, norh Wales, Liverpool, staffs, Cumbria limited though.

    Such a shame as it does tick so many boxes.

    Any further input would be welcome


    Ps I had a Prius 5 years ago like a milk float and only gave me 52 mpg was built like a tin can !.
     
  8. smac

    smac Active Member

    Joined:
    Aug 4, 2013
    Messages:
    1,121
    Location:
    Nottinghamshire
    The only further input I can offer is to ring round and get some real world lease quotes, you might be able to find someone doing a deal, the £1k is just a ball park.

    It's a great car, but it isn't cheap.

    Sure you can look at it over a longer period of time, but personally I'll be chopping mine in at 3 years, and looking at the Model 3 as a replacement, which is more the size of car I'd choose anyway.
     
  9. aarontayto

    aarontayto Member

    Joined:
    Feb 2, 2015
    Messages:
    23
    Location:
    United Kingdom
    You can get a p85d for around £7xx/month from lease plan.
     
  10. smac

    smac Active Member

    Joined:
    Aug 4, 2013
    Messages:
    1,121
    Location:
    Nottinghamshire
    That would be a cracking deal, but I'd want it in writing. (Then bite their hand off)

    I'm not saying I don't believe you, but it doesn't seem to add up :(. After 3 years, an £85k P85D (using Tesla's residual guarantee program calc) is worth just over £40k used.

    So the finance has got to cover £45k depreciation. Even at 0% that's £1250 per month over 3 years.

    I wonder if they quoted you a "base" P85D, which in Tesla terms is an S60, the battery pack and motors are optional extras.

    Over 3 years a £50k new S60 loses £25k in depreciation, which at 0% = £695 pm... Seems more plausible to me.
     
  11. blobert07

    blobert07 Member

    Joined:
    Feb 17, 2015
    Messages:
    18
    Location:
    uk halifax
    I am awaiting numbers form persons but I'm convinced it will be £850 + at least on a personal deal, I would do 15 k miles per year and would take it out over 3 or 4 years. Is there any PCP deals out there as this is how I have bought cars in the past. Yak rover 4 years and get rid in 3 years hopefully being in balanced equity ?.

    My A6 Avant auto is gonna hav to stay for another 2 years I feel !

    damm
     
  12. Rluner

    Rluner Member

    Joined:
    Apr 23, 2014
    Messages:
    136
    Location:
    North West UK
    I live in the NW and purchased an S85 last Dec. I'm hoping to do 30k miles over the first year. I regularly cover the areas you cover except Cumbria, on top of this I've already travelled to Edinburgh and Portsmouth and a number of places on route. I've got plans to visit Cornwall and Northern Scotland in the next few months.

    The Tesla MS is an amazing car.

    Get the dual chargers, so every time you makes a motorway pit stop you can get the most from the Chargers. If you can take your breaks plugged into a rapid charger ( or a SC) I feel you could do the 300 miles in a day. I've certainly done over 300 comfortably in a day.

    Don't forget Warrington SC will cover a lot of the area you drive. (North Wales, Liverpool, Staffs, Lancs). Real life one hour max stay should refill your batteries. In most cases I guess 30 minutes top up maybe enough.

    In winter count on 200 miles without any charging is comfortable. Speed and range go hand in hand. See my post
    Uk estimated range in miles please remember that speeds quoted are real, not normal car speeds which always show around 10 % higher. Eg if you are doing 70 in a MS the normal car next to you has 77 showing on the speedo.

    I believe there will soon be a SC covering Cumbria this year.

    Please feel free to DM me and I will give you my mobile number if you want to speak to me on range or any other issues relating to the MS.
     
  13. Grandunion

    Grandunion Member

    Joined:
    Dec 16, 2014
    Messages:
    45
    Location:
    Sarratt
    We have taken out our S85 on finance with Tesla over 6 years and specced up with a few extras & its just over £915 per month. The wife likes to keep her cars, whereas i change every year or 2. For her, its not just the car, it's equally what it represents from a Tech perspective & a finger up to the Oil Industry. Being an Early Adopter for us is one of the driving factors getting the Tesla. Ive got the PodPoint installation going ahead this afternoon, so will hopefully get a photo done & will post it later. We had a call a week or so ago saying that our S was ahead of schedule & will hopefully be delivered end of March opposes to the original early May. Very excited Now
     
  14. Scouser

    Scouser New Member

    Joined:
    Feb 18, 2015
    Messages:
    3
    Location:
    Liverpool UK
    Grandunion, if you don't mind me asking what spec did you go for on the car, as still weighing up options myself, and was told by staff at Knutsford that dual chargers are not needed with the new CHAdeMO adaptor that's available soon if not already, noted that Rluner recommends them just wonder what you have gone for.
     
  15. arg

    arg Member

    Joined:
    Aug 22, 2012
    Messages:
    741
    Location:
    Cambridge, UK
    This advice (which I previously agreed with) is probably now out-of-date: by the time someone ordering now gets the car, the CHAdeMO adapter will probably be freely available and is much better value for money. The remaining few places in the UK that you can use 22kW but not CHAdeMO seem not worth the extra cost for most people (though for any individual there could be a particular chargepoint they want to use that flips this decision).

    200 is also the figure I would normally quote, but with one caveat in this particular case: the pattern of driving around with several sales calls during the day is the worst case for winter driving. Low temperatures (at least what we call 'cold' in the UK) don't actually impact range all that much on a long trip, but there is a 'hit' for each time you have to warm up the car after it has been standing in the cold for a couple of hours. I haven't quantified it exactly, but a hit of about 10 miles in close-to-freezing conditions is what I observed on a couple of occasions earlier this year.

    But on the other hand I agree that a 200-miles typical day, 300-miles occasional travel pattern is quite doable. Probably it means charging away from home on many days in the winter - but not for very long. If there happens a supercharger that you naturally pass on your common routes (not too close to home), then it's still less bother than buying petrol. If not, probably you can schedule 30 minutes of coffee/lunch breaks, catching up on email etc. so that charging time doesn't actually eat into your day at all.
     
  16. Brunel

    Brunel Member

    Joined:
    Jan 26, 2015
    Messages:
    126
    Location:
    Bristol, UK
    Agree with Arg.

    I have ordered my 85D and did not bother with twin chargers as they will be joined with CHAdeMO at most rapid charge stations. Not sure how much the CHAdeMO adapter is in the UK - I think it is $450 in USA.

    Also, I was explicitly told that the 85D will have the hardware - so a software change upon payment of twin charging in the future will allow twin charging if you need it - there had been some doubt about this, but Westfield based sales told me that is the case. Doubt I will ever need twin charging for a rapid charge anyway and that frees up cash for the CHAdeMO adapter, the UMC lead with adapters etc.
     
  17. Grandunion

    Grandunion Member

    Joined:
    Dec 16, 2014
    Messages:
    45
    Location:
    Sarratt
    Hi Scouser, we went 85, standard white paintwork, pano roof, 19" rims, Tech Pack, Dual Chargers, thats it from the top of my head. The reason i went DC's was that although we would utilise the SC Network i wanted the option of faster charging if/when we go abroad and just wanted to cover as many bases as possible. I'm not that Techie myself & thought basically why not.. This one is for the wife & we just wanted to keep it fairly straight forward, equally we wanted it as quickly as possible so thought keep it basic. Besides, ive got my car for another 18 months then i can Spec mine up. I shall be going the full monty with mine i can assure you..
     
  18. Brunel

    Brunel Member

    Joined:
    Jan 26, 2015
    Messages:
    126
    Location:
    Bristol, UK
    Grandunion, you have a similar set-up to my order.

    I was going to keep it very simple and basic, but....I ditched the white roof and went pano in case I need a roof rack...then I went D to make sure I eek out the motorway efficiency...then I went air suspension in case I am mad enough to go in a multi-storey and would hate the sound of scraping on the ramp. So foregoing twin chargers was my final throw of the simple dice. A whole week of changing my mind, but luckily I got my order in before the price rise so I could add stuff at the old price before confirming - helped justify a saving to me (cough, cough).

    Just wish I could stop looking at the P85D and thinking "could I"?
     
  19. blobert07

    blobert07 Member

    Joined:
    Feb 17, 2015
    Messages:
    18
    Location:
    uk halifax
    Brunei, I note the point about scraping the car ?? I regularly go into multi story car parks and live in areas with with many speed bumps worries me ??

    I also note the price increase is this due to spec change or they have increased due to demand ?? I like to barter and get my best price ?
     
  20. Brunel

    Brunel Member

    Joined:
    Jan 26, 2015
    Messages:
    126
    Location:
    Bristol, UK
    The price increase was due to the strengthening USD in January. All Europe prices went up. Not sure if Tesla peg pricing to the Euro because they reassemble cars in Tilburg then we exchange rate to GBP, or a straight USD:GBP exchange rate.

    I was just lucky with my timing - there is no negotiation on any price points with Tesla - as I have done many years of procurement and supplier negotiation if felt painful just paying list price.

    No idea if the coil set-up gives enough space for speed bumps etc, but the air suspension remembers where you have raised it and does it automatically in the future based on GPS! I remember going to the Wales GB rally and my brother-in-law reversing his Mitsubishi Evo and grounding it - sounded more painful than it was, but still...
     

Share This Page