Help me decide - Model S P85 or pre-owned BMW M5 (new F10)

[zero]

Just drive the model s and you will wonder why you even thought about BMW much less any other car. Thats just talking about performance now add in the fact that its electric, no gas bills, more exclusive, it's a US company thus you are helping our economy......... oh and you are helping save the planet. There is no debate!!

FYI you are asking the wrong crowd:smile:

 

[vetboy45]

You are correct. But in "flexibility/practicality", I'd also note that I do road trips maybe 5-10 days a year, max. The other 355+ days I'm driving around Miami and the surrounding areas, and even on a VERY long driving day I don't get over 120 miles... and the P85 can do that with its eyes shut, A/C on full blast, stupid-fast acceleration at every light, and so on. So the flexibility is that I can always go anywhere I want in my daily life, without ever having to stop and think about whether I need gas... because I never do. No more stops at gas stations in the middle of the night on the way home, no more filling up in the rain, or standing outside in 95F and 95% humidity while filling up. No more fumes, no more hunting around for the best price, no more worries about whether X or Y gas station is maybe doctoring their fuel a bit to pad their margins... none of that.

IMHO flexibility/practicality favors the P85 those 355 days of the year: about 97% of the time. Yes, I have to put up with some inconvenience and more time spent planning and charging the last 3% of the time. I'll take that tradeoff every time and twice on Sunday, please.

I couldn't agree more with this sentiment. I had to drive my truck and fill it up the other day. I really noticed the disgusting conditions (oil everywhere, etc) and the smells at the station. It seems so outdated now, like using whale oil for light instead of a light bulb.

 

[Cattledog]

OK, it's not an M5, but my wife and I have a 5-series BMW and a Model S. Nobody wants to drive the BMW. Nobody. None. Neither of us. Every morning when we go to school my daughter asks if we can take the Tesla (regardless of who's driving her.) EVERY morning. The BMW - it might as well have a big crank handle sticking out of the hood and a wooden-spoked spare tire mounted to the back.

Last weekend we went to a small dinner party, perhaps 6 couples and kids. Some of them knew we had a Model S, some didn't. One guy there had a brand new M3. After few minutes of chatting a bunch of people wanted to go out and see the Model S and drive in it. No one cared about the M3. One of my friends said the M3 guy begged him to go on a test drive, so he did because he felt sorry for him. Read that again - people are feeling sorry for people who have brand new M3s when they compare them to Teslas.

I could suggest which car to get, but I'm pretty sure you know where this is going to end up...

 

[Iz]

Schedule a test drive. Also, consider your driving routine and how charging might impact lifestyle. My initial thoughts were to drive the S ocassionally. Have had it 1-month and it has ~ 1k miles. I doubt you will stick to the annual 9k. Have driven hundreds of vehicles (lots of rentals during business trips). Model S is not perfect and neither were any of the others. However, it is in a class all it's own.

 

[Lyon]

There really isn't much of a choice here. After driving my Model S Performance for a few months EVERYTHING else seems so old fashioned. I mean, all that noise for so little movement.

This is how I feel every time I have to drive one of our ICEs:

 

[ZestyChicken]

IMHO flexibility/practicality favors the P85 those 355 days of the year: about 97% of the time. Yes, I have to put up with some inconvenience and more time spent planning and charging the last 3% of the time. I'll take that tradeoff every time and twice on Sunday, please.

I agree as you see from my sig below. We do drive to San Antonio and Austin a few times a year though and I would love to take the Model S down instead of my wife's Enclave. However, it's all good. It's a perfect car for me to drive 360 days of the year as you say. I just wouldn't buy it if I were single. I think...well...maybe I would have...hmmm....

 

[Nathan Smith]

The Flexibility/Practicality statement does favor the BMW in a few other scenerios (seldom mentioned here)... My daily commute is about 120 miles. Today I had to drive my Accord -- because I forgot to plug my car in. Kinda of sucks, and I can see my self doing it again. If you have a much shorter daily commute or you don't forget things easily than Flexibility would be a wash. In fact, if Telsa every solves the Vampiric Drain - that would shrink that gap as well. It's only one of the many things to consider for your situation.

 

[dsm363]

The Flexibility/Practicality statement does favor the BMW in a few other scenerios (seldom mentioned here)... My daily commute is about 120 miles. Today I had to drive my Accord -- because I forgot to plug my car in. Kinda of sucks, and I can see my self doing it again. If you have a much shorter daily commute or you don't forget things easily than Flexibility would be a wash. In fact, if Telsa every solves the Vampiric Drain - that would shrink that gap as well. It's only one of the many things to consider for your situation.

That's a good point. With your commute I think forgetting to plug in is something you likely won't forget again or often since it's a bigger deal for you than others with a 20 mile commute. The mobile app and the ability to check help. Maybe they'll implement the ability to alert you via the app if you forget to plug in by a certain time someday.

 

[rogbmw]

Both the Model S and the M5 are wonderful cars. We have been driving BMWs since 1983, and still have an Alpina B12. I sold my 1M Coupe for the Model S, and have not looked back. The Tesla is a different Paradyme, but once you realize the differences, you would probably really appreciate the differences an electric vehicle has, and no electric vehicle compares to the Model S. We drove both the P85 and the regular 85, and ended up going with the regular 85, and I have owned multiple BMWs and multiple BMW M cars. Also, there was an article in the ROUNDEL (the BMW CCA magazine) in February about the Model S, and this was from a BMW owner who also presently has a 1 series electric car. It was very favorable toward the Model S.

Just as an aside - we just got our Model S in February, and checked our electric cost increase vs what we paid for in gas in the 1M. My electric cost increases to charge the car is 20% of what it cost me to put gas in the 1M during the last month. Plus, a 1M gets much better mileage than an M5 - and - remember you have to put premium in the M5.

Ultimately it is up to you, but the Model S is one of those rare cars (like our Alpina) that you turn around and smile when looking back at it when you walk away. That's rare.

 

[ItsNotAboutTheMoney]

The Flexibility/Practicality statement does favor the BMW in a few other scenerios (seldom mentioned here)... My daily commute is about 120 miles. Today I had to drive my Accord -- because I forgot to plug my car in. Kinda of sucks, and I can see my self doing it again. If you have a much shorter daily commute or you don't forget things easily than Flexibility would be a wash. In fact, if Telsa every solves the Vampiric Drain - that would shrink that gap as well. It's only one of the many things to consider for your situation.

It also adds to the importance of having the scheduled charging working and 4.3 is now being rolled out. With scheduled charging the routine is:
1) park
2) plug-in
3) walk away
4) do stuff
5) come back to car
6) unplug
7) drive away
8) go to 1

It's much harder to forget when you have a routine and scheduled charging now makes that possible. I hope the software also allows you to set a plug-me-in reminder.

As for the decision, drive the Model S and see. If you're deciding between luxury cars there are no cost arguments.

 

[Al Sherman]

OK, it's not an M5, but my wife and I have a 5-series BMW and a Model S. Nobody wants to drive the BMW. Nobody. None. Neither of us. Every morning when we go to school my daughter asks if we can take the Tesla (regardless of who's driving her.) EVERY morning. The BMW - it might as well have a big crank handle sticking out of the hood and a wooden-spoked spare tire mounted to the back.

Last weekend we went to a small dinner party, perhaps 6 couples and kids. Some of them knew we had a Model S, some didn't. One guy there had a brand new M3. After few minutes of chatting a bunch of people wanted to go out and see the Model S and drive in it. No one cared about the M3. One of my friends said the M3 guy begged him to go on a test drive, so he did because he felt sorry for him. Read that again - people are feeling sorry for people who have brand new M3s when they compare them to Teslas.

I could suggest which car to get, but I'm pretty sure you know where this is going to end up...

LOL as usual. We went to a friends 60th birthday party last week. His wife got him his dream car for his birthday (Porsche) and it was lovely. Everyone at the party wanted to see the MS. Everyone. Nobody cared about the Porsche. I even parked it around the corner because I KNEW this would happen. I TRULY do find myself feeling bad for people that can afford the MS and buy something else.

I hope to never buy an ICE car again. And, I'm in Jerry's camp. I would have never considered an ICE anywhere near the price range of the P85.

There's a reason this revolution is taking off and will not be stopped. The Tesla Model S is really a stunning achievement. AND, it seems as if it will only get better.

- - - Updated - - -

The Flexibility/Practicality statement does favor the BMW in a few other scenerios (seldom mentioned here)... My daily commute is about 120 miles. Today I had to drive my Accord -- because I forgot to plug my car in. Kinda of sucks, and I can see my self doing it again. If you have a much shorter daily commute or you don't forget things easily than Flexibility would be a wash. In fact, if Telsa every solves the Vampiric Drain - that would shrink that gap as well. It's only one of the many things to consider for your situation.

It's already a wash. People run out of gas when they forget to put gas in the car. I've had my MS for 3 weeks and can't imagine forgetting to plug in. I forget things easily too as I'm aging. I promise to "fess" up if I ever do forget to plug in.

I drove 120 miles last week. A trip I do maybe 4 or 5 times a year. It cost me about 4 bucks. Try making that happen in your M5.:smile:

 

[bhuwan]

Think of it this way: the BMW will kick ass, and you'll love it, but at the end of the day, it's just another fancy automobile.

The Tesla, on the other hand, is NOT just another vehicle .

 

[Nathan Smith]

Ah, no it's not a wash... Right now if I am short on gas (as I was this morning since I haven't put any in for over 2 weeks) I stop by the gas station and am on my way in less than 10 minutes. Forgetting to plug-in and not having another option would have cost me 2.5 hours. So, not even close to a wash.

 

[Al Sherman]

Ah, no it's not a wash... Right now if I am short on gas (as I was this morning since I haven't put any in for over 2 weeks) I stop by the gas station and am on my way in less than 10 minutes. Forgetting to plug-in and not having another option would have cost me 2.5 hours. So, not even close to a wash.

Unless you CAN"T make it to the gas station. Then it's definitely a wash.

But just in case; let me be clearer. If the OP thinks that he will consistently, or regularly forget to plug in his ELECTRIC vehicle when he pulls into his garage where he just had a 14-50 and/or a HPWC installed then alas I think the Model S ( or any other EV for that matter) is probably not a practical choice.

 

[viperboy]

I'll try to throw in an unbiased opinion not having driven either car (I've driven an e39 m5):

The m5 is one of the best sedans in the world. Period. It's stable at high speeds, has modern comforts, fits four people / four doors, and has a proven track record as a phenomenal car. The model S is an engineering marvel and has very high tech appeal, early adoption "street cred" and (of course) doesn't use gas. As most people have said, it comes down to personal opinion and driving habits.

You stated that you drove around 9000 miles per year. If that's 90%+ city driving, I'd go with the model S. This car will stand out in a crowd of sedans and give you something other people dont have. If you're looking to do long road trips / road rallies, track days, and really push the car, I would recommend the m5. The m5 is built to be a "sleeper" of sorts where the common citizen doesnt recognize it as a (literal) supercar vs a standard 5 series sedan.

 

[Nathan Smith]

dsm363,

After today's fiasco -- I would love a reminder from my phone app!

 

[jtc1]

OP here – thanks for the excellent feedback.
From what I know – I think I am EXACTLY who Tesla is afterwith the P85. Currently own a 5 Series BMW, Career in technology, car geek, married withtwo kids, 12.5 mile (one way) commute to office. (I even ride my bike to work. The roads are perfect for a P85 with nicecorners and opportunities to feel the torque. Max miles driven in a day would be 90 (maybe1-2 times a month). Anything over 4hours of driving means we are stopping in at the Delta Lounge for complimentarydrinks before boarding our flight. Ifwe do make a family trip to in-laws – wife drives an Acura MDX with all the usualmess of cup holders, rear seat entertainment, and 425 mile range. Oh, and the spacious rear hatch on the MS isideal for transporting my mountain bike or road bike for my after work clubrides. I care about the environment andwould prefer to buy an American car- (but I remember the American made carsfrom the 70’s and 80’s). But spiriteddriving is tops on my list. I can talkabout cars all day – so having a MS and being an evangelist for the brand willbe a positive experience. And, whilehard to justify, I can afford the car.
What is NOT IDEAL for me:
The $600 a year maintenance angers me. So much so I may take a stand and go with anM5. I know this should not be “the hillto die on” but I read all of the comments about Tesla “best car in the world”due to simplicity, fewer parts, etc.. If the vehicle is so superior and featuresmuch less complexity than a premium ICE vehicle – come on Tesla – match the freemaint for 48 months of your competing ICE cars. When I called Tesla and asked what was included – they said softwareupdates?? Hmmm… I get a bit of California “I’m too cool totalk to customers” attitude when I have contacted Tesla customer service. Spooks me a bit if this is during presales. Probably just bad luck.
I live in the cold Midwest – there is not a Tesla store orservice center (yet) nor any superchargers. In some ways it feels like Tesla is a California car – what with all thesuperchargers and the “Tesla Highway” seems the Midwest is years behind.
It seems that the suspension may not match the accelerationin the P85 – but I have not driven the P85 – just the 60. And I see there is a Performance Plus packageto address this.

In summary - the enthusiasm among the owners is clearlyimpressive and contagious. Despitesearch before my post, I have now found another MS vs M5 thread with 200 replies – so appears others are cross shopping as I am. With that we can let this thread die as I will read every post in that long thread.

 

[byt]

Electric (full tank every morning and save on those Unleaded or Super Unleaded costs), Maintenance (over time), Green, Performance and that's just scratching the surface... Model S

Cookie Cutter, Status Symbol of the ICE generation for the last several years... M5

If you have to ask, then just get the M5 because you just don't get it... PERIOD! Common Man, come on a Tesla Board and didn't expect and answer like this?

 

[HWS]

Tough choice. You'll be happy with either one. The M5 is proven to be the almost perfect car from the past. The Tesla might be the perfect car from the future:wink:

 

[AprilDelivery??]

I would never give my money to a German Car Company (BMW) which is owned by Hitler's Spokesman's Goebbler's Family!! Always buy American, "Made In The USA" . Go Tesla !