-
Want to remove ads? Register an account and login to see fewer ads, and become a Supporting Member to remove almost all ads.
Help me decide - Model S P85 or pre-owned BMW M5 (new F10)
- Thread starter jtc1
- Start date
AprilDelivery??
Member
Doesn't make a difference, it was part of Hitler's war machine which killed innocent millions including tens of thousands of Americans.
AC1K
Member
who ever said the M5 is more practical i think you forgot the Model S has more interior and trunk space than any other 4 door sedan right now, it also gets the best gas millage.
for range and long trips, there have been multiple people that have made it across the country in a model S, you just plan differently,
for range and long trips, there have been multiple people that have made it across the country in a model S, you just plan differently,
Well, as long as you're checking out other long threads, check out the S6 vs P85 thread, too.
Personally, I'd rather have an Audi S6 over a BMW M5, and when you throw in the huge price differential, it seems like a no-brainer.
Here are my thoughts on your choice:
$600/yr is noticeable, but is still a fraction of the price. just roll however many years you want into the price of the P85.
Tesla is still a fledgling car company. It's not polished. If you want polished, go with BMW or Audi. Those cars will have fewer issues, and the ones they do have will get fixed faster. or wait a year and hope Tesla gets used to their current run rate.
Fitting the bike into the car turns out to be a huge win for me. A bike fits so easily with the seats folded down, whereas on the M5 I'd have some external car carrier which would make noise in the wind, would make me afraid of scratching the paint, and would take me 5 minutes or so to put a bike on.
I think you've noted it, but just to repeat it: range is a non-issue for you as it is for me.
Personally, I'd rather have an Audi S6 over a BMW M5, and when you throw in the huge price differential, it seems like a no-brainer.
Here are my thoughts on your choice:
$600/yr is noticeable, but is still a fraction of the price. just roll however many years you want into the price of the P85.
Tesla is still a fledgling car company. It's not polished. If you want polished, go with BMW or Audi. Those cars will have fewer issues, and the ones they do have will get fixed faster. or wait a year and hope Tesla gets used to their current run rate.
Fitting the bike into the car turns out to be a huge win for me. A bike fits so easily with the seats folded down, whereas on the M5 I'd have some external car carrier which would make noise in the wind, would make me afraid of scratching the paint, and would take me 5 minutes or so to put a bike on.
I think you've noted it, but just to repeat it: range is a non-issue for you as it is for me.
EarlyAdopter
Active Member
If maintenance plan costs are a sticking point, an important question to ask yourself is how long do you plan to keep the car? If it's for less than 4 years then yes, BMW's $0 maintenance is a hard psychological barrier to get over. If it's for more than 4 years it'll be a wash as maintenance on an M5 will be quite pricey. The Tesla will stay the same ($600 or $475/yr if you prepay).
But honestly, are you buying a car to save on maintenance and flip every 4 years?
The biggest factor for me switching now from high performance BMWs and Audis (member of both car clubs, experienced track driver with both), and what I see is the stealth benefit of a high powered EV - something no gasoline car will ever be able to match - is the direct drive, high torque drive train on the Tesla. It's truly game changing. No transmission. No drive train loss or slop. No gear changes. No revving into and out of the power band. With the Tesla you are always in the power band. It's immediate. It. Just. Goes. And it doesn't stop.
Buy the Tesla. Trust me.
(Oh, and the handling is quite good, too
Plenty German like. Not at all "American.")
But honestly, are you buying a car to save on maintenance and flip every 4 years?
The biggest factor for me switching now from high performance BMWs and Audis (member of both car clubs, experienced track driver with both), and what I see is the stealth benefit of a high powered EV - something no gasoline car will ever be able to match - is the direct drive, high torque drive train on the Tesla. It's truly game changing. No transmission. No drive train loss or slop. No gear changes. No revving into and out of the power band. With the Tesla you are always in the power band. It's immediate. It. Just. Goes. And it doesn't stop.
Buy the Tesla. Trust me.
(Oh, and the handling is quite good, too
Plenty German like. Not at all "American.")The money you will save not buying gas, (premium unleaded at about 10mpg!) in the M5 will pay for your $600/yr maintenance in about the first 3-4 months with the Model S. At the same time it is faster in real world driving, more comfortable, has more cargo space, and has much more technology in the driver interface. It is no comparison in the interest on the road currently either as people don't even pay attention to M5's compared to the interest in my Model S performance. You really can't make this choice until you drive the Model S Performance, and then add on the fact that it is American made, you NEVER buy gas or oil for it, and you are putting ZERO emissions into the environment, and is there really a way to compare this car to not only the M5, but ANY gasoline powered car anymore? I have owned Mercedes, Audi, Porsche, and BMW's, and it would be difficult to compare them to my current MS Performance. I can't imagine why anyone who knows about this car would ever want a gas powered sports sedan from any other company right now. The only reason would be that you hate the styling, as the objective parameters mentioned are hard to beat. If the styling is not right for you, buy something you like better. But, in all other measures that really make a difference, this is the best sports sedan on the market right now if you can afford it and don't mind being an early adopter and dealing with possible reliability issues. I love this car and am happily gas-free and never looking back! Good luck with your choice.
Have you tried the standard Model S 85? It's still extremely fun to drive, and it's in the upper $80s in price. If price is a concern and you're not completely obsessed with performance, you'll be very happy with it. It's *still* nicer to drive than any gas car, IMNSHO -- that flat torque curve can't be beat.
Or are you one of those people who just *has* to have that sub-5-second acceleration? In that case, spend the money on the Performance Model S. You'll kick yourself if you get an inferior ICE car.
----
It's worth remembering the difference in energy costs between a fuel-sucker like the BMW M5 and an electric car like the Model S. The fuel costs on the M5 are stupendous: as rbt3 said, premium gasoline at 10 mpg -- what is that, $2.50 a mile? Figure out how many miles per year you drive, look at gas prices and rated mpg, and add it up.
Then look at electricity prices. *Aggressive* driving isn't going to run you more than 600 Wh/mile, and if your electric rate is $0.11/kWh like mine, well, you see that you're running under 7 cents a mile with the model S.
If you drive the car a lot of miles per year, the savings actually adds up quickly, and compensates for the premium price and cost of the maintenance for Model S. (And I can tell that you do drive a lot of miles per year, if you think 5000 miles is low mileage. There's a certified pre-owned Roadster for sale with 600 miles on it, BTW -- now that is low mileage.)
- - - Updated - - -
Pretty much; the range is fine for you, if you never drive further than 90 miles. However, you commute is *so* short that you may actually be putting on really low numbers of miles per year, which would make the cost advantage of electricity vs. gas lower.
So you've test-driven a Model S, though only a 60kWh model? Frankly, I'm startled you're even considering the BMW. Perhaps your test drive wasn't long enough tor really appreciate the controllability of the flat torque curve and instant throttle response. If you can, take a long test drive in an 85 and another long test drive in a P85. Try all the steering and driving settings. THEN decide.
Which of course brings up the issues about the company -- if you're a long way from the nearest showroom, you may be simply unable to do those test drives. Even if you can get to a showroom, Tesla may not have enough test drive cars and Tesla may not be willing to bother to get them.
I will be the first to say that the company is NOT handling communications very well, so if you strongly prefer to have really seamless service, that's one thing, and perhaps you should go ahead and get an inferior car in order to get better service. That's a tradeoff. There's something to be said for getting really good service, and maybe even buying a junky product just to have a superior service experience.
But if you're looking for the best *CAR*, rather than the best *SERVICE*, get a Tesla.
My fiancee had a favorite car which she loved. Now, when she has to drive it (it's now ths backup car) she starts going "Boy, this is so annoying to drive! The throttle response is slow, and nonlinear, and the car shakes from the engine, and...." None of this is stuff she ever noticed before, because it's present in all gas cars. Drive a Model S long enough and you won't be able to go back to gas cars.
- - - Updated - - -
One month after receiving my model S, I called my insurance company and told them that my estimate of miles driven per year had better be increased by 2000.
rogbmw
Member
We selected the "standard" 85 over the performance 85, and have added a carbon fiber spoiler to the rear purchased new from another forum member. I LOVE the car, and as I said earlier in this thread, have been driving BMWs since 1983. The standard 85 is still very quick (MT tested it at 0-60 in 5.0 sec), so it is plenty fast for me. But, drag racing time quotes are not necessarily useful in the real world for me, and I do not plan on taking my S to a drag strip. But, I will say that the everyday acceleration you will find in the Model S, with NO LAG and instant torque us unlike any BMW I have ever driven. Some of the M cars I have owned were very close, but the torque in the S is instantaneous. Both are nice cars though.
I just ran a rough set of numbers. Your commute is 12.5 miles x 2 per day x 5 days/week x 52 weeks/year = 6500 miles / year. It seems the mileage for the 2013 M5 is 15.6 mpg (from Fuelly). Suppose the cost of premium gas is $4/gallon (which is a fair guess; most gas stations don't offer the required 91 octane and you may have to get 93). This is about 26 cents a mile.
Compare with a worst case scenario of 7 cents a mile in the Model S, and the fuel savings is 19 cents a mile, or $1235/year. Subtract roughly $365/year for vampire load (which Tesla will hopefully fix eventually) to get $870 in savings.
This will cover the annual service costs and also part of the "purchase premium" for the Performance Model S. If you turn out to be happy with the standard 85 rather than the Performance 85, there isn't really a purchase premium, so then you're actually saving money.
Compare with a worst case scenario of 7 cents a mile in the Model S, and the fuel savings is 19 cents a mile, or $1235/year. Subtract roughly $365/year for vampire load (which Tesla will hopefully fix eventually) to get $870 in savings.
This will cover the annual service costs and also part of the "purchase premium" for the Performance Model S. If you turn out to be happy with the standard 85 rather than the Performance 85, there isn't really a purchase premium, so then you're actually saving money.
There is no way a driver who is focused on getting a high-performance car will get 15 mpg from a BMW M5. My wife gets 15 mpg from here 535 GT, OK? He's going to get 10 mpg, or 12 at most... but 10 is more likely. He won't drive it like the EPA did. So his real fuel cost per mile is going to be more like $0.40.
That would make the savings about $0.33 per mile, or $2150 a year. That's a lot more than the maintenance plan. And $4 gas is cheap around here... real Miami prices have been more like $4.30 or $4.40 recently.
So his real fuel cost per mile is going to be more like $0.40.That would make the savings about $0.33 per mile, or $2150 a year. That's a lot more than the maintenance plan. And $4 gas is cheap around here... real Miami prices have been more like $4.30 or $4.40 recently.
The vampire drain should not be a permanent thing either so could likely take that out of your estimate or reduce it. It hasn't been fixed yet though so makes sense to include it or be aware of what it would cost should it not get fixed.
AMPd
Well-Known Member
And that is one of the biggest advantages of the Model S over any other car, things can always be fixed or added months after you've purchased the car
Whereas dealerships would not do that for you, it doesn't make financial sense for them to update your car, they need you to purchase a new car with all the new goodies.
AC1K
Member
you cannot buy a single product that has 100% of its components manufactured in one place, both VW and Mercedes have tons of parts made by Mitsubishi and Hyundai. Alot of Buick's are Chinese parts/assembled (mainly the ones sold there)
the Chevy Camaro is more Canadian than US, Hyundai vehicles sold in north america are more American than most GM.
buy american buy tesla? its freaking battery is 100% Japanese! (Panasonic) the raw aluminum is most likely shipped from China, maybe we should start burning witches again too hey?
personally i don't care who makes it as long as its the "Best", all car manufactures are a global conglomerate, limiting yourself to buying something from a specific region means you wont be buying anything at all.
http://usnews.rankingsandreviews.com/cars-trucks/How_American_is_Your_Car/
the most "american" car you can buy is a toyota currently lol
EDIT: another site to explain who is more american
http://abcnews.go.com/Business/american-cars/story?id=13801165#.UWBogpOkqnE
