Here's how to charge with 32A commando in UK

[WannabeOwner]

But what socket(s) do they have?

Does the skinny 16 AMP Blue commando fit the same socket as the fatter 32 AMP one?

I put a 32 AMP Commando socket in for visiting EVs but that's a bit moot if the new "cost-price conscious" ones are going to need a different socket

or perhaps there is an adaptor I can have on hand?

 

[kevuwk]

Does the skinny 16 AMP Blue commando fit the same socket as the fatter 32 AMP one?

I put a 32 AMP Commando socket in for visiting EVs but that's a bit moot if the new "cost-price conscious" ones are going to need a different socket

or perhaps there is an adaptor I can have on hand?

Different size socket, you can get a 32a plug to 16a socket cable though

 

[GeorgeSymonds]

The gen2 UMC doesn't do 3 phase so isn't blue single phase just 16A x 240V = 3.8kW?

Caveat: rusty school physics, not electrician!

Correct on the Gen 2 UMC not supporting 3 phase

Also kind of correct the single phase 16A connector (that comes as standard) is 3.6 kw (UK voltage is 230V not 240V)

You can buy the bigger 32A connector which would give 7.3 kw

I think they supply the 16A one as standard as there are more 16A sockets at caravan parks etc.

 

[Adopado]

You can buy the bigger 32A connector which would give 7.3 kw

It costs £32 if you can pick it up from the SC.

 

[-DB-]

But what socket(s) does your family member have?

Thanks, they have more than one socket as the 3 phase is in a farm building. I'll have to check with them what sockets they have.

 

[MidhurstNigel]

For what it is worth the cost of Type B RCDs for EVs seems to be coming down - see Electric Vehicle Charger B Type RCD DC SENSITIVE | eBay - £95 for 63A 2pole

 

[DamBuster]

Regarding the discussion of the cost of Type B RCDs, I am looking at installing a switched isolatable 16A commando socket in my driveway and intend to protect the circuit with the attached mini-RCBO from Screwfix (I intend to use the 20A version rather than the 32A one).

I currently charge from my 13A 3-pin socket, limited to 8A deliberately to minimise potential for overheating due to the constant high current flow.

Are there any concerns with using this protection device? Seems a lot cheaper than suggested by earlier posts.

 

[MidhurstNigel]

I'm no expert, but as I understand the situation the 'Type B' RCDs needed for EV charging are not just ordinary Type B RCDs (or RCBOs) but are also DC sensitive. Some charging points have the 'DC sensitive' bit built into the charging point so don't need one of the snazzy DC sensitive RCDs, but if you use an ordinary Commando socket, or a charging point that does not have the DC sensitive feature you should protect the curcuit with a Type B DC sensitive RCD

 

[arg]

Regarding the discussion of the cost of Type B RCDs, I am looking at installing a switched isolatable 16A commando socket in my driveway and intend to protect the circuit with the attached mini-RCBO from Screwfix (I intend to use the 20A version rather than the 32A one).

I currently charge from my 13A 3-pin socket, limited to 8A deliberately to minimise potential for overheating due to the constant high current flow.

Are there any concerns with using this protection device? Seems a lot cheaper than suggested by earlier posts.

That one in the Screwfix catalogue is NOT a Type-B RCD (despite what they say), it has B-curve overcurrent characteristics (as they say in the description), but the type of RCD function is not specified, but from the markings on the device itself in the photo it appears to be Type-AC.

If you care only about the regulations, for a commando socket it doesn't need to be Type-B, but it needs to be at least Type-A; which the one you have chosen isn't. Some of the other ones listed by Screwfix are Type-A, (such as the Schneider one), but the regulations also require double-pole and none of the Screwfix ones appear to be (Wylex do make one now, but apparently Screwfix only sell the older one).

 

[DamBuster]

That one in the Screwfix catalogue is NOT a Type-B RCD (despite what they say), it has B-curve overcurrent characteristics (as they say in the description), but the type of RCD function is not specified, but from the markings on the device itself in the photo it appears to be Type-AC.

If you care only about the regulations, for a commando socket it doesn't need to be Type-B, but it needs to be at least Type-A; which the one you have chosen isn't. Some of the other ones listed by Screwfix are Type-A, (such as the Schneider one), but the regulations also require double-pole and none of the Screwfix ones appear to be (Wylex do make one now, but apparently Screwfix only sell the older one).

Thanks very much for the clarification, it did seem too good to be true!

The 'Type B' in the description threw me.

I'll keep looking, thanks again.

 

[Adopado]

I'm no expert, but as I understand the situation the 'Type B' RCDs needed for EV charging are not just ordinary Type B RCDs (or RCBOs) but are also DC sensitive. Some charging points have the 'DC sensitive' bit built into the charging point so don't need one of the snazzy DC sensitive RCDs, but if you use an ordinary Commando socket, or a charging point that does not have the DC sensitive feature you should protect the curcuit with a Type B DC sensitive RCD

And this DC issue also applies to using the supplied UMC with the 3 pin plug! ... yet nobody is going to be doing anything other than plugging into standard socket. Nobody even warns you about it. However, I've lived most of my life without any RCD protection of any sort. The small chance of a DC fault happening and that fault being sufficient to "blind" the function of the main board RCD isn't going to worry me too much. I'm definitely not recommending it and maybe I'm a mad risk taker in this regard but you still need to find a way of giving yourself (or your family members) an electric shock before you would know there was a problem.

 

[MidhurstNigel]

And this DC issue also applies to using the supplied UMC with the 3 pin plug! ... yet nobody is going to be doing anything other than plugging into standard socket. Nobody even warns you about it. However, I've lived most of my life without any RCD protection of any sort. The small chance of a DC fault happening and that fault being sufficient to "blind" the function of the main board RCD isn't going to worry me too much. I'm definitely not recommending it and maybe I'm a mad risk taker in this regard but you still need to find a way of giving yourself (or your family members) an electric shock before you would know there was a problem.

Absolutely. I suspect the far greater danger is cooking inadequate wiring by drawing a continuous large load. I'm currently charging my M3 using the UMC to connect to a 16A socket in my workshop (awaiting a Mk II Zappi). I need an extension lead to do this and I'm using a heavy duty 2.5mm 16A industrial lead. I'm most surprised to find this gets quite warm to touch after an hour or so charging. Plug/socket connections themselves are cold but the cable does heat up. It's out in the open and not coiled up, so isn't a problem, but is a warning to make sure your fixed wiring is up to the job. Also, a proportion of the electricity I am paying for is ending up heating the cable rather than going into the battery, which is not good.

 

[Artiste]

I'm no electrician, and after reading all four pages of this thread I still don't really know if using a 32A commando socket is acceptable. I know a wall charger is preferable, but is there really any reason why a commando socket can't be used? I don't really understand all this about Type B RCDs and why they are needed for charging EVs, but surely every 16A socket at marinas and such places have not been updated just in case someone decides to charge an EV?

I have a spare 32A MCB in my consumer unit. If I got a commando socket installed I presume the electrician would provide the cable, but can anyone point me to a decent socket I could use, and anything else I might need? THANKS!

 

[MrBadger]

Its not a retrospective regulation. Any install that may be used to externally charge an EV since January must meet this regulation. There is confusion amongst electricians, but at end of the day, its their signature on the paperwork and your hands on the car and charger.

 

[arg]

I'm no electrician, and after reading all four pages of this thread I still don't really know if using a 32A commando socket is acceptable. I know a wall charger is preferable, but is there really any reason why a commando socket can't be used? I don't really understand all this about Type B RCDs and why they are needed for charging EVs, but surely every 16A socket at marinas and such places have not been updated just in case someone decides to charge an EV?

No. The regulations don't seek to cover every possible scenario of people misusing things, just to reduce the risk to an acceptable level based on the probability of different things going wrong and the cost of doing something about it. They change over time, reflecting on the one hand changes in usage patterns (people buying EVs) and on the other hand changes in the cost of precautions. For example, even basic RCDs used to be exotic and expensive devices, used only where absolutely necessary, then they became cheap enough that one per household was a reasonable thing to ask on top of the cost of a new installation, then two per household, and now many people are fitting one per circuit even though not yet mandated.

So using a random commando socket once in a blue moon when you happen to run out of juice at a marina is an acceptable risk, even though slightly higher risk than charging at a proper chargepoint.

A Tesla UMC permanently plugged into a properly-installed-for-the-purpose commando socket is in fact equally safe compared to a dedicated chargepoint - but is also no cheaper.

I have a spare 32A MCB in my consumer unit. If I got a commando socket installed I presume the electrician would provide the cable, but can anyone point me to a decent socket I could use, and anything else I might need? THANKS!

I linked a couple of appropriate commando sockets back in post #51:

32A 230V Surface Interlocked Socket 2P+E 6H IP44
Gewiss IEC 309 32A Switched Interlocked Socket 240V GW66015 | RS Electrical Supplies

You will also need a double-pole RCD of at least Type-A and an enclosure to put it in. You can also get commando sockets with the space to put the RCD inside, but they are more expensive than the separate socket plus a cheap enclosure.

 

[Artiste]

No. The regulations don't seek to cover every possible scenario of people misusing things, just to reduce the risk to an acceptable level based on the probability of different things going wrong and the cost of doing something about it. They change over time, reflecting on the one hand changes in usage patterns (people buying EVs) and on the other hand changes in the cost of precautions. For example, even basic RCDs used to be exotic and expensive devices, used only where absolutely necessary, then they became cheap enough that one per household was a reasonable thing to ask on top of the cost of a new installation, then two per household, and now many people are fitting one per circuit even though not yet mandated.

So using a random commando socket once in a blue moon when you happen to run out of juice at a marina is an acceptable risk, even though slightly higher risk than charging at a proper chargepoint.

A Tesla UMC permanently plugged into a properly-installed-for-the-purpose commando socket is in fact equally safe compared to a dedicated chargepoint - but is also no cheaper.



I linked a couple of appropriate commando sockets back in post #51:

32A 230V Surface Interlocked Socket 2P+E 6H IP44
Gewiss IEC 309 32A Switched Interlocked Socket 240V GW66015 | RS Electrical Supplies

You will also need a double-pole RCD of at least Type-A and an enclosure to put it in. You can also get commando sockets with the space to put the RCD inside, but they are more expensive than the separate socket plus a cheap enclosure.

Many thanks for the info. It does seem as if going down the commando route isn't as simple as I thought. An advantage for me would have been that I need an 8m lead, and I would have bought a 10m Type 2 to 32A commando lead rather than using the one supplied with the car. Not many chargers have a long enough lead, but the Andersen does as an option so that might be my best bet.

 

[Fraank]

Many thanks for the info. It does seem as if going down the commando route isn't as simple as I thought. An advantage for me would have been that I need an 8m lead, and I would have bought a 10m Type 2 to 32A commando lead rather than using the one supplied with the car. Not many chargers have a long enough lead, but the Andersen does as an option so that might be my best bet.

Anderson is very expensive. If you follow my journey of Type-B self discovery in this thread, you'll see I ended up going with a much cheaper Rolec with DC protection built in.

Not as cheap as the commando would have been, but I now have a 10M tethered cable which is perfect for my usage.

 

[MrBadger]

An advantage for me would have been that I need an 8m lead, and I would have bought a 10m Type 2 to 32A commando lead rather than using the one supplied with the car.

I'm sure arg will correct me, but that sounds like you want to do Mode 1 charging which is not supported (the car expects to have to negotiate with the power source), hence the need for the UMC (Mode 2) or wall connector (Mode 3).

 

[arg]

I'm sure arg will correct me, but that sounds like you want to do Mode 1 charging which is not supported (the car expects to have to negotiate with the power source), hence the need for the UMC (Mode 2) or wall connector (Mode 3).

You are certainly right that Mode1 is not appropriate, but I assumed @Artiste had in mind buying a third-party portable EVSE equivalent to the UMC. There's lots available in the 10A/13A/16A range, but 32A ones are comparatively rare and expensive, though they do exist.

I continue to believe that the most sensible answer for daily home charging is a standard chargepoint - socketed if you need flexibility over the cable length/type, tethered otherwise. The UMC should stay in the car so that it's always available for use away from home. Installing a commando socket for use with the UMC may be a worthwhile cost-saving option for places you visit frequently enough to need more than a 13A socket but not enough to justify a permanent chargepoint.

Obviously there will be some people with special cases that override this general advice.

 

[Artiste]

Anderson is very expensive. If you follow my journey of Type-B self discovery in this thread, you'll see I ended up going with a much cheaper Rolec with DC protection built in.

Not as cheap as the commando would have been, but I now have a 10M tethered cable which is perfect for my usage.

Yes, I saw that you ended up with Rolec, and very neat it looks too. What threw me was that on Rolec's own website they only offer a 5m tethered cable, and I even phoned to check. With ordering from evonestop did you get the £500 OLEV grant and did you have to source your own electrician?