danielwai, From DITB post above, recopy here: SAE J1772 (Type 1) to IEC 62196-2(Type 2) Extension Cord 32A for EV Charging in Type 2 Connector Cable from EV Charging (EVSE) for Sale
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Group buy, anyone? If we could get to 10 units, the price will go down, also saving on the shipping, although I don't think shipping is that much.
EddieY, let us know please if you have any issues. I highly encourage you to try the cable at more locations:
- Kwai Chung Estate, which has 7 stations, each has Mennekes type 2 (3 phase 32A), J1772 and the usual 13A BS1363. Print the receipt from the charger, go to Schroffice and get the first two hours of parking free. I have tried the Mennekes (the thick blue cable that comes with the Tesla Model S), and got between 22.2 and 22.4 kW (dual chargers I have). That is an impressive 95 km/h charging, the fastest AC charging I have done (More than 10 times the speed of BS1363).
- Maritime Square, Tsing Yi. They have three spots with BS1363, but one J1772 that will reach all three spots
- Shui Pin Wai Estate, 17 Ma Wang Rd, Yuen Long (doesn't say J1772 in open charge map, but I am quite sure there is one along with the ChaDeMo)
Speaking of the latter - I encourage everyone to get the FREE app Open Charge Map, and USE it as well as UPDATE it. Or use the web version, Open Charge Map - The global public registry of electric vehicle charging locations
EddieY, if you don't want to try these locations, could I borrow your adapter for testing? Although there aren't many choices around, those places that offer J1772 are still three times as fast as BS1363.
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Side tracking, why are the EV chargers sprinkled around HK all 1 phase 32A? How do we know which ones are 2 or 3 phases? Shouldn't they install more multi phase chargers (perhaps other EVs can take all 32A on a single phase?)
Update:
Some of us are in discussions about buying this cable. We have now found it at 105 USD plus shipping from China.
In my opinion, it's a great backup to have. Some locations with BS1363/J1772 combos, will make it 3.5X faster to charger, if you have this cable. For overnight charging, it means full charge with J1772, only about 100 km with BS1363. If at the shopping mall and charging while shopping, it also makes a huge difference.
Of course, 32A/3P or supercharging is even better, just not always available.
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Most chargers are actually not even 32A, but single phase 13A (10A net), the BS1363 connector. A few days ago I visited a friend who lives in a village house. We put two extension cables from his house in daisy-chain, so it could reach my 13A charger. Charged for a few hours, those extension sockets didn't even become hot.
So most chargers in Hong Kong are nothing more than a common wall plug, with some extra protection and usually a paywall function (although most are still free to use)
Some of us are in discussions about buying this cable. We have now found it at 105 USD plus shipping from China.
In my opinion, it's a great backup to have. Some locations with BS1363/J1772 combos, will make it 3.5X faster to charger, if you have this cable. For overnight charging, it means full charge with J1772, only about 100 km with BS1363. If at the shopping mall and charging while shopping, it also makes a huge difference.
Of course, 32A/3P or supercharging is even better, just not always available.
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Most chargers are actually not even 32A, but single phase 13A (10A net), the BS1363 connector. A few days ago I visited a friend who lives in a village house. We put two extension cables from his house in daisy-chain, so it could reach my 13A charger. Charged for a few hours, those extension sockets didn't even become hot.
So most chargers in Hong Kong are nothing more than a common wall plug, with some extra protection and usually a paywall function (although most are still free to use)
Is there a simple way to tell if a plug is 32A or 16A or how many phase? There is a blue color type 2 plug at work, there seems to be no branding. Is there any way to tell what type of power it supplies? My 85D won't be arriving for a while but if it is a 1phase 32A then I should upgrade to dual charger.
EddieY, with the cable ( SAE J1772 (Type 1) to IEC 62196-2(Type 2) Extension Cord 32A for EV Charging in Type 2 Connector Cable), do you get 16A or 32A charged into your Tesla?? Does your Tesla have Dual Charger??
I cannot recommend anyone NOT to get dual chargers, no matter what your current needs are. You never know where you will end up, who will buy your car (and want dual), or what - dual just gives you more options, doesn't cost a lot when installing it, while retrofit costs about 2.5 times as much.
I get 95 km/h charging with 32A/3P (Mennekes type-2), the fastest AC charging possible with the Model S. This is using the bug standard thick blue cable that comes with the car (Hong Kong deliveries)
For ANY charger, there should be an approval plate somewhere - saying how much power is going in and out. It could say for instance "220V 3~ 32A" or "380V 3~ 32A" (don't know which of these are correct, as 380V is really when you use two phases together, rather than each phase to 0).
They are adding more CHAdeMO chargers and this new CCS ports. Hopefully the CHAdeMO adapter will be released soon.
https://www.clp.com.hk/ourcompany/news/currentrelease/Documents/20141223_en.pdf
The charger, located in the Tak Long Estate car park in the KTD, supports both the existing
Japanese quick charging standard (CHAdeMO) and the latest European quick charging
standard (Combined Charging System or CCS) and enables compatible electric vehicles to be
charged up to 80% within 30 minutes.
https://www.clp.com.hk/ourcompany/news/currentrelease/Documents/20141223_en.pdf
The charger, located in the Tak Long Estate car park in the KTD, supports both the existing
Japanese quick charging standard (CHAdeMO) and the latest European quick charging
standard (Combined Charging System or CCS) and enables compatible electric vehicles to be
charged up to 80% within 30 minutes.
I am very confused with the charging facilities in HK.
From HKEPD web site, the following charging standard is available in HK:
1) Standard 13A
2) Medium IEC 62196
3) Medium SAE J 1772
4) Medium Other – I don’t know what other stands for
5) CHAdeMO
Are the medium charger 16 or 32A? 220 or 380V? Single or 3 phases? Are these all compatible with Tesla (single or dual charger?)?
If the car comes with dual charger, which of the above charger can provide higher charging speed?
I assume the cable (SAE J1772 (Type 1) to IEC 62196-2(Type 2) Extension Cord ) is for use with Medium SAE J 1772 charger. If my car does not equip with dual charger, can I still use it with the extension cord, but at lower charging rate?
What is Mennekes Type 2? Is it the same as IEC 62196?
Does Tesla compatible with CHAdeMO?
Thanks a lot.
I'm also new will offer what I know so far.
1) 13A you can find lots of these in public carparks, slow charging rate as charging current must be limited to about 10A for safety (heat) reasons therefore you get about 10km/hour. The charging cable (by Mennekes) isn't free, get it from Tesla at $3,700 on delivery
2) IEC62196 Type 2 (mode 3) charging is available at some gov't parking, it's single phase at 32A. The cable required comes with Tesla on delivery in the trunk. This is so called medium rate charging you get about 32km/hr approximately. I tried this at Murray Road Wilson (gov't) parking but I forgot to record down the charging rate.
3) J1772, don't know much about this I think this is for Japanese EV, presumably not very common. I haven't seen this in gov't parking yet.
4) medium other. ..I don't know!
5) CHAdeMO is again Japanese standard, available at some private estate charging spot, you need to purchase adapter from Tesla, is it out for HK yet I don't know Tesla Gear Shop CHAdeMO Adapter
am sure other experienced owners can update/correct this!
Thanks.
Will I get a quicker charging for IEC62196 with dual charger equipped? It is anyway single phase and below 40A.
Public IEC62196 you will get 16A with a single charger, or 32A with dual chargers. Tesla wall connector will give up to 40A with dual chargers.
I suggest you review the first post in this thread, which has a summary.
That is because the Tesla Wall Charger converts a single phase into three virtual phases, to accommodate the 3 x 16A limitation of each onboard charger unit.
Other charging stations than the Tesla Wall Charger doesn't do that, and hence you would only get max 16A on one of those, while a dual charger would give you 32A (1 phase to each charger). Three phase is supported in Europe and Asia (Japan, not sure), which is great if you have three phase, not so great if you have single phase. UNLESS you are using a Tesla Wall Charger to split it.
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FYI Japan has single and three phases in households but single phase is by far popular. Tesla cars support only single phase, and we can use US Wall Connector as-is.
I thought so, as your cars follow the USA version. Which is why I didn't already get a ChaDeMo adapter in Japan for my car in Hong Kong (it wouldn't fit). I heard that ChaDeMo isn't more of a "standard" as it depends what car and what charger brand, they are not all compatible. This is why superchargers are so brilliant: They are the fastest, but also the easiest AND the cheapest (to use). I wonder if Tesla Motors will ever license them for third party use, ie some company/store/parking that want to offer supercharging but have the cost covered? Or a company, to charge their own fleet only, so it only works with certain registered cars (their own cars for instance)
Hong Kong, Australian and European cars support three phase charging. Each car has a charger capable of 3x16A maximum, while a dual charger installation allows 3x16A x 2. This is all fine when using either three phase, or the Tesla Motors Wall Charger, while single-phase third party chargers only will charge one of the three phases (meaning maximum 1 x 16A for single charger, 2 x 16A for dual charger, the other two phases not being used).
Elon has said (at a Tesla Motors shareholders meeting) he approached EV manufacturers asking them if they would like to use the Supercharger network. He is open to doing so as long as the EV manufacturer pays a proportional share of the capital costs for building the Supercharger network. No EV manufacturer agreed to doing so.
Do I understand correctly as below :
1) 3 phase 16A supply with single charger is 50% quicker than 1 phase 16A with dual charger
2) if the supply is single phase with whatever ampere (not Tesla Wall Charger), there is no different for car come with single or dual charger.
3) there is no increase in charging speed if the ampere is 16A or 32A (not Tesla Wall Charger)
Thanks.
1)
3~16A = 48A (gross) and 40A net (around 40-45 km/h charging). 1~16A is around 15 km/h. The difference between these two chargers are 3x, but in either case, for this example there is no difference with single or dual chargers.
2)
Wrong.
If 1~16A, no difference, both will get 16A. If 1~32A, dual charger is twice as fast, as single charger maxes out at 16A (single channel), actually slightly more as the slower charging has more overhead (using power to run the system itself).
3)
Correct, for single charger, not correct for dual charger.
Let me explain the system using a road with one or more lanes.
The road has either 1 or 3 lanes (1 or 3 phase). The road with 3 lanes have double stripes dividing, meaning once a car is in a lane, it cannot switch to the other lanes. There can be 1 or 2 separate roads (single or dual charger). This means the slowest road has one lane, while the fastest road has 6 lanes (2 roads with 3 lanes each).
The capacity of each lane is 16 cars pr minute, how many cars can pass in total pr minute?
a)
The charger is non-Tesla, single phase 16A This means cars are leaving the shopping mall from one exit, onto a single lane road. Total cars passing is 16 cars/minute
b)
The charger is non-Tesla, single phase, 32A. This means cars are leaving the shopping mall at 32 cars pr minute. If there is only one road (single charger), that means despite 32 cars are ready to leave the shopping mall each minute, there is only room for 16 of them on the road (there is only one lane). Even though the road actually has three lanes, only one lane can be used (single phase). Two of three lanes are NOT used, as all cars are forced onto the same road.
If there are dual chargers (two roads), the cars can still only use one lane of each road (double white lines), but the two roads means that half the cars can drive on one road, the other half on the other road. Middle and outside lane still unused, (since it is single phase), so with dual chargers, 32 cars can pass per minute, 16 on each road.
c)
Same as b), but the charger is now 48A (non-Tesla). The end result is still the same, since it is single phase only, so because only one of three lanes can be used in each onboard charger, the single charger is limited to 16 cars pr minute, while the dual charger is limited to 32 cars pr minute. Hence for a single phase, non-Tesla, more than 16A for single charger and 32A for dual charger is useless.
d)
Now we switch to a Tesla Wall Charger, 48A. This charger has the unique capability to remove the double white lines between lanes, as it takes the single phase supply and divides the cars into all three lanes. It makes it's own three phases, despite the supply only having one phase. If you don't understand mains 3-phase, don't worry, just think of the road: Three lanes with dashed lines - cars can mingle into all three lanes giving a total amount of cars per minute of 3 x 16 = 48. In this case, it doesn't matter if you have single or dual chargers, as all three lanes are filled with cars, a single charger can precisely utilise the full capacity. So from the analogy, 48 cars leave the shopping mall pr minute, once they get on the road of three lanes they find dashed lines and can spread out, accommodating the high output rate of the "single file" shopping mall. This, only with a Tesla Wall Charger, NOT with a third party charger.
e)
Then a Tesla wall charger, single phase, 96A (we don't have that yet, not sure if it is coming?). In this case, the wall charger would make 3 lanes of traffic, each with 16 cars pr minute. If single charger is installed, only half the charger can be utilised, like in d), 48 cars per minute If dual chargers, all 6 lanes will have 16 cars per minute each, meaning a total of 96 cars per minute.
f)
A 3-phase 32A charger, like a Mennekes type-2, (there is one installation of 7 units in Kwai Chung Estate): This has the same result as e), meaning 48 cars pr minute for single charger, 96 cars pr minute for dual chargers.
Basically, if
I) Single phase
AND
II) NOT Tesla charger
then only one of the three phases of the on board chargers can be used. If the charger is low power, it doesn't matter, if it is high power, it matters - as per the examples above.
I am going to put it into a table - stand by a few minutes.
This is how I believe it works. Please correct me if I am wrong, and note that some charging values can be gross, in that 48A wall charger might actually give a net charge of 40A (and so on).
Under the rows of utilisation, you can see that with dual chargers, only in one example the charger isn't utilised to it's maximum (48A, single phase, non-Tesla charger). For the same case, the single onboard charger can only use a third of the available power (as all 48 cars have to go in one lane, despite three lanes being available, ref my analogy in my previous posting).
- You can also conclude, that in 3 of 8 scenarios, dual (onboard) chargers are twice as capable as single charger.
- By three phase installations, it doesn't matter if it is a Tesla charger or third party, as there is no need to divide traffic from one lane into three (convert single to three phase), as it is already three phase.
- At 220V, each value in "Total Single Charger" and "Total Dual Charger" is roughly the charging rate in km/h. For maxed out dual chargers, I am getting 95 km/h indicated (Mennekes type-2, 3 phase 32A). For lower rates, actually km/h charging will be less, the lower the charging rate, due to electricity used just to run the charging process.
Red cells are unable to use due single charger installation.
Gray cells are unable to use, due third party charger unable to make three (virtual) phases.
Please note that some of the examples are constructed, ie there IS no 16A Tesla Wall Charger, even though it has a column.
Corrections, please, before my 24 hour TMC window to edit the posts expire. Thank you.
Under the rows of utilisation, you can see that with dual chargers, only in one example the charger isn't utilised to it's maximum (48A, single phase, non-Tesla charger). For the same case, the single onboard charger can only use a third of the available power (as all 48 cars have to go in one lane, despite three lanes being available, ref my analogy in my previous posting).
- You can also conclude, that in 3 of 8 scenarios, dual (onboard) chargers are twice as capable as single charger.
- By three phase installations, it doesn't matter if it is a Tesla charger or third party, as there is no need to divide traffic from one lane into three (convert single to three phase), as it is already three phase.
- At 220V, each value in "Total Single Charger" and "Total Dual Charger" is roughly the charging rate in km/h. For maxed out dual chargers, I am getting 95 km/h indicated (Mennekes type-2, 3 phase 32A). For lower rates, actually km/h charging will be less, the lower the charging rate, due to electricity used just to run the charging process.
Red cells are unable to use due single charger installation.
Gray cells are unable to use, due third party charger unable to make three (virtual) phases.
Please note that some of the examples are constructed, ie there IS no 16A Tesla Wall Charger, even though it has a column.
Corrections, please, before my 24 hour TMC window to edit the posts expire. Thank you.
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