Hong Kong Tesla Model S Charging Standard

[MDK]

Rated range 394 km=246 miles when new
Here's my conclusion... Our Rated number is lower than US Ideal so definitely not NEDC.

Does your owner's manual say what rated means? (Under "Using the Touchscreen" -> "Settings")

The Australian manual (as of 31 Dec 2014) says:

which led me to theorise that the U.S. "Rated" is equivalent to the Aussie "Typical" and the U.S Ideal is equivalent to the Aussie/EU "Rated"

 

[arg]

The Australian manual (as of 31 Dec 2014) says:

View attachment 68691

The UK manual has exactly the same wording, but it's not true (or at least deeply misleading). UK typical is definitely not exactly the same as USA rated, and I don't think UK rated is the same as USA ideal either (though in both cases they are fairly close and serve the same purpose - you can chose whether your range shows "you can go this far if you drive moderately" or "you might be able to go this far if you try really hard").

 

[3fiftynine]

This is what the HK manual says (ver 5.9 not the latest), we have only "typical" and "rated" to select from.

 

[DITB]

I just discovered that ChaDeMo adapters have been delivered since the end of January in Denmark. Apart from being left hand drive cars, these cars should be the same as ours in Hong Kong.

As far as I know they are out of stock until March already, with all the pre-orders. With only a handful or so of ChaDeMo in Hong Kong, I wonder how many Model S owners are going to get one. Considering the price is about the same as the 13A BS1363, I will get one for sure, despite the lousy availability of ChaDeMo chargers in HK. At least I can use the EV spots in more places, like Stanley

Isn't it odd, that the slowest and the fastest charging solution there is - are both the most expensive, and neither is delivered with the car? The type 2 cable we all get is good up to 22kW (23kW actually, if the voltage had been up to the modern 240V AC), so most ChaDeMo are "only" 2-3 times as fast as 3-phase 32A.

 

[DITB]

Here is another very versatile charger:

English - Mobile Chargebox JUICE BOOSTER 1 - e-driver.net - THE HOME OF ELECTRIC DRIVING

Anything from 13A/1~ up to 32A/3~ (2 to 22 kW)

I wonder if it's of use to anyone in HK, though, as we don't have too many of those red three phase plugs we can use (lots of those in Europe though). This gadget is made in Germany (or maybe Switzerland, not sure now), like the Mennekes 13A. Being about twice the price of the Mennekes, the advantage is that it does what the Mennekes BS1363 does - and a lot more. One thing it doesn't do, though (as far as I can see), is converting single phase into "virtual three phase" like the wall charger does. Now THAT would be sweet, for those with single charger installed in particular.

 

[Dylanpete]

More testing answers questions and clarifies, but also opens up new questions:

Is "typical range" varying with each car, depending on it's driving history, or is it a constant value embedded in the software/firmware?

After charging today, I confirmed that the 3-phase chargers, as delivered to the Hong Kong market are NEITHER limited to 40A/80A for single/dual chargers, NOR are they limited to 10kW/20kW.

Here was todays testing:

Location: Kwai Chung Estate
Charging equipment: CLP 3-phase/32A type 2 (22 kW)
Voltage: Varying between 217-219 V AC as measured by my car
Ampere: 32A/3 - as advertised

While I had 21kW indicated inside the car, it was flickering to 20 kW at times (there are no decimal places indicated, just whole kW). On the charging station it said it delivered about 1.2 kW more than the car indicated it got (cannot be seen precisely as the car rounds off to whole kW, however, V AC and Amp can be used to find it around 20.8 kW at most times, fluctuating to over 21 kW when voltage is 219 V AC).

When stabilised, charging showed 94 km/h for typical range, and 117 km/h for rated range, 20 or 21 kW, depending on actual voltage (217, 218 or 219 seen). The CLP charger showed around 22.2 kW given, and after 52 minutes of charging, it said I had used 19.126 kWh, which amounts to an average gross charging power of 22.07 kW. I had the center screen on most of the time, while the air con was off. Overhead was hence just over 1 kW, accounting for losses in the cable, running the chargers, screens and various other systems. Including all these factors, charging efficiency seems to be 94% from charging station output to battery (excluding what the charging station itself uses and before, and eventually using the power from the battery)

My calculations show around 177.5 Wh/km for rated range, and 222 Wh/km for typical range. Since my car so far has average 221 Wh/km, I was thinking if the typical range is being set to the cars life long average, or a fixed value. Or is it a coincidence that my calculation of 222 Wh/km is within 1 Wh/km of my own average use so far?

This means that the charging chart has been updated, see below. Most of the values depicted are still calculated, pending practical confirmation by testing (need car with single charger to try some locations and report back please)

Please note that overhead in the car, as well as energy used to cool (or heat) the battery isn't proportional to the charging rate. Hence, very low or very high charging rates will be less efficient than some mid range charging level. 13A BS1363 charger, is cut down to about 10A by the Mennekes adapter that Tesla sells for 3,700 HKD, while charging is about 9 km/h when all goes well. The "km/h" indicated in the table are NOT corrected for different efficiencies, at different charging levels. Also, it depends on whether air con is running or not. For BS1363 and 10A net charging, running the air con lowers the charging rate from around 9 to around 2 km/h.

View attachment 68344

This is a very interesting thread!
In my case here in Australia, I use an EVSE charge controller that is capable of single phase and 3 phase. At home, with a voltage of 242V and 32 Amp I get the following results:
Rated: 132 km/h
Typical: 104 km/h
Energy: 23 kWh/h
Clearly typical is about 80% of rated in HK or Australia and has nothing to do with our car's typical registered consumption of Wh/km as you have 221 Wh/km while I have 183 Wh/km

 

[DITB]

This is a very interesting thread!
In my case here in Australia, I use an EVSE charge controller that is capable of single phase and 3 phase. At home, with a voltage of 242V and 32 Amp I get the following results:
Rated: 132 km/h
Typical: 104 km/h
Energy: 23 kWh/h
Clearly typical is about 80% of rated in HK or Australia and has nothing to do with our car's typical registered consumption of Wh/km as you have 221 Wh/km while I have 183 Wh/km

I wish we could get 242V! The highest I have seen in HK is 230V. Usually, it is between 205 and 220 - by the time it reaches the car.

We need a LOT more type-2 chargers, 3x32A. They fit most EVs and are fast enough to make a reasonable alternative to superchargers. Especially when you are spending a few hours dining/shopping/moviegoing anyway - and don't want to have to hurry back to move your car away from the charging station!

 

[miimura]

Is there any news about the Tesla UMC (Universal Mobile Connector) in Hong Kong? Two pieces of news have prompted me to ask.
1. Tesla is now providing a variant of the European UMC with a 10A Australian plug (3112) pigtail to owners in Australia. Rumor has it that it will be provided to all existing owners. They started delivering them to owners in the same order as original vehicle deliveries. Tesla also claims to have other pigtails forthcoming that support higher amperage Australian sockets.
2. UK owners say that Tesla now has a "13A" adapter available for the European UMC. I assume this is BS1363.

 

[gubes]

Best way to measure charging speed would be on kwh/hr since everyone's "range or Wh/km" is different depending on driving styles, highway driving / city etc

So for a supercharger charging a 85kwh battery, the charging rate would average 128kwh/h in the first 20min (50% of battery); 102kwh/h for first 40min (80min); and around 80-85kwh/hr for full charge.

A technician I am liaising with (for possible installation of a charger at my parking spot) is telling me that a full charge using a 32A, 3 phase charger is 5 hours (for 85kwh); and 10 hours for a 40A, single phase charger.

That would seem to imply a charging rate of 17kwh/hr for 32A 3 phase; and 8.5kwh/hr for 40A single phase.

Given that most people are recommended to charge 80% of the battery, and given that the battery chargers faster in the first 80%, it would indicate an 80% charge from flat would be:

32A 3 phase: Just over 3 hours to get to 80%
40A 1 phase: Around 6.5 hours to get to 80%.

Does anyone know what the standard is at public charging stations such as IFC, Pac Place for instance?

 

[arg]

2. UK owners say that Tesla now has a "13A" adapter available for the European UMC. I assume this is BS1363.

It is. Charges at 10A.

 

[jsiu]

I was told by Tesla Hong Kong that a portable cable with 13A UK plug was available at $3,700. Is that the case?

 

[3fiftynine]

I was told by Tesla Hong Kong that a portable cable with 13A UK plug was available at $3,700. Is that the case?

Yes, it's made by MENNEKES - Plugs for the world unless you have home charging fixed up it's highly recommended that you shell out $3,700 on day 1. If you search this forum you'll find other made in China alternatives.

 

[AppleFan]

Hi Gubes,

While your calculations are technically correct, your real-life experience if you can charge at home will be different. A common non-EV owners' fallacy is that you charge from flat (perhaps because with ICE cars, you only refuel when you are low). With an EV and the ability to charge from home, your experience will be more akin to charging your mobile phone at night. Unless you really do use a full charge during the day, you will be only charging however much you use. Just now, my power meter showed 58% and my charge limit is 80% so I will only charge 22%.

Second, once you are able to charge at home, however fast or slow you charge becomes almost irrelevant. I charge at 40A single phase. Charging at 80A three phase may be faster but what does it matter - I'm not going to drive in the middle of the night anyway! And if indeed I do need it in an emergency, I can just unplug it and drive! (Again, a common fallacy to think that the car must be full to unplug!)

So if I were you, I'd think long and hard about paying more for faster charging. Yes, three phase 80A is 3.5 hours faster than 40A single phase, but ask yourself this: will you actually use the car in those 3.5 hours?! (Likely around 2:30am to 6am.) IMHO, these "how many hours" calculations are a bit of an academic exercise.

 

[gubes]

Hi Gubes,

While your calculations are technically correct, your real-life experience if you can charge at home will be different. A common non-EV owners' fallacy is that you charge from flat (perhaps because with ICE cars, you only refuel when you are low). With an EV and the ability to charge from home, your experience will be more akin to charging your mobile phone at night. Unless you really do use a full charge during the day, you will be only charging however much you use. Just now, my power meter showed 58% and my charge limit is 80% so I will only charge 22%.

Second, once you are able to charge at home, however fast or slow you charge becomes almost irrelevant. I charge at 40A single phase. Charging at 80A three phase may be faster but what does it matter - I'm not going to drive in the middle of the night anyway! And if indeed I do need it in an emergency, I can just unplug it and drive! (Again, a common fallacy to think that the car must be full to unplug!)

So if I were you, I'd think long and hard about paying more for faster charging. Yes, three phase 80A is 3.5 hours faster than 40A single phase, but ask yourself this: will you actually use the car in those 3.5 hours?! (Likely around 2:30am to 6am.) IMHO, these "how many hours" calculations are a bit of an academic exercise.

Fair point. For me what kind of charger I get is mostly dependant on what the building management allows. Once they allow it, then I will start to care more about how to save money on the type of charger.

Thanks for the input though.

 

[markwj]

I was told by Tesla Hong Kong that a portable cable with 13A UK plug was available at $3,700. Is that the case?

Yes, but note that it will charge at a maximum 10A (about 2.2kW).

 

[AppleFan]

Fair point. For me what kind of charger I get is mostly dependant on what the building management allows. Once they allow it, then I will start to care more about how to save money on the type of charger.

Thanks for the input though.

Just to further drive home the point, I've had my car since September 30th (i.e. a full seven months). The longest charge I've had is, maybe, four hours? That was after our rally in December. And I've simply never had to worry about the length of the charge because it happens at night anyway. Granted, I don't drive much -- around 4,200 km only!

Public charging is an entirely different story, however. Of course with public charging, you want it to be fast because you want to get going again soon. That being said, with my home charging set up, I've never needed to charge at public stations -- only when I want to (to get some free electricity) or to show the demand for it!

 

[DITB]

Best way to measure charging speed would be on kwh/hr since everyone's "range or Wh/km" is different depending on driving styles, highway driving / city etc

So for a supercharger charging a 85kwh battery, the charging rate would average 128kwh/h in the first 20min (50% of battery); 102kwh/h for first 40min (80min); and around 80-85kwh/hr for full charge.

A technician I am liaising with (for possible installation of a charger at my parking spot) is telling me that a full charge using a 32A, 3 phase charger is 5 hours (for 85kwh); and 10 hours for a 40A, single phase charger.

That would seem to imply a charging rate of 17kwh/hr for 32A 3 phase; and 8.5kwh/hr for 40A single phase.

Given that most people are recommended to charge 80% of the battery, and given that the battery chargers faster in the first 80%, it would indicate an 80% charge from flat would be:

32A 3 phase: Just over 3 hours to get to 80%
40A 1 phase: Around 6.5 hours to get to 80%.

Does anyone know what the standard is at public charging stations such as IFC, Pac Place for instance?

kWh/h is actually just ... kW.

1 kWh is 1 kW of power, for one hour (or 2kW for 30 minutes, and so on). Hence if you say "pr hour" you are just going from kWh back to kW.

Totally agree - the kW figures is much better to use. Too bad it doesn't show with decimal points on the screen, so 21.9 kW seems to show as just "21".

32A/3~ is around 22-23kW, depending on the voltage (HK usually have quite a low voltage, so 21-22 is more realistic).

If you don't have dual chargers, that will be limited to 11-12 kW, so double the time to charge.

 

[jsiu]

I think the dual charger option is no longer available here in HK. Is my understanding correct ?

 

[AppleFan]

I think the dual charger option is no longer available here in HK. Is my understanding correct ?

In the past, dual chargers could be installed at the factory, or subsequently retrofitted by the service centre. The latter is much more expensive as it requires taking apart a significant portion of the car.
Dual chargers is no longer available as a factory-installed option, but it can still be retrofitted by the service centre. As such, the cost of getting it is now higher than it used to be.

 

[en-ev]

The Dual Chargers factory installed option was not available when I ordered(early March). Thinking about retrofitted after delivery (Asked and my carpark management replied that they are not ready to accept wall charger installed at my (rental) parking space).

There are 32A chargers in Cheung Sha Wan Gov. office. I captured its spec. labeled on the side of the charger. Seems not a 3 phase 32A charger?
What is the max. charging rate(typical) between Single vs Dual Charger? 16km/h vs 32km/h?