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How come Tesla cannot beat Hyundai's MPGe?
- Thread starter Reeler
- Start date
UngaBunga1989
Member
I am DEFINITELY selling my M3P to buy a Kona. I want to downgrade EVERYTHING but the MPGe!
Kilotango74
Active Member
Exactly my point. The OP is stuck on the one number that is better than Tesla’s and won’t concede that it’s really bogus considering all the variables in play. But whatever, yeah that number is better for the Kona. Lol. It’s like staring at a number line and whining “but that number is more.....!”
AlanSubie4Life
Efficiency Obsessed Member
I feel like you're cherry-picking with this comparison. I actually have no idea why the LEMR did so poorly in the EPA tests compared to all the other RWD models (perhaps someone can say - it might be that it has a less efficient inverter - though to my knowledge I have not seen that confirmed).
But all the other RWD models stack up pretty well against the Kona - in spite of the Kona's narrow tires. So while the Mid Range may be worse in the city than the Kona by a hair, that does not appear to apply to Tesla Model 3 RWD in general.
(BTW, apparently the SR+ is voluntarily downgraded to 240 miles range - apparently the real number is 247 - so it's not a bad comparison to the Kona)
So, the Kona is worse than the Tesla RWDs, except for the MR MPGe in the city, for reasons I do not understand, on every number. This is in spite of the Kona's narrower tires and inferior handling (and all the other things others have mentioned). (BTW, the Kona actually has a decent stopping distance - looks similar to the Model 3 - so tire stickiness probably not a major factor, but the width will still help efficiency (width won't impact stopping distance too much as the contact patch is the roughly the same area regardless of tire width).)
It does now. Note the SR+ is probably 247 miles range and the LR is something like 325 (both apparently voluntarily de-rated).
I agree with you that if you want a small hatchback EV, you should probably buy the Kona or Bolt, or wait until the Model Y arrives if you don't mind a larger vehicle (Model Y quite a bit larger than the Kona of course). We can only imagine how fantastically efficient a small Tesla sedan would be! Maybe you should wait for the Tesla Model 2, before you add to your Tesla fleet? They might go with a Model Z first, if they learn from their Model 3/Model Y miss on consumer preferences. That Model Z might be just the small hatchback you've been looking for!
AlanSubie4Life
Efficiency Obsessed Member
I think the mods should change the title of this thread to: "How come Hyundai cannot beat Tesla's Wh per mile?" It would literally be more accurate (within the rounding error of the EPA numbers, anyway), and would lead to less confusion.
And I think we've previously covered why the Ioniq, a lighter vehicle with half the range, with dangerously slippery tires, edges out the Model 3 (a slight edge which is lost in the rounding error)...
And I think we've previously covered why the Ioniq, a lighter vehicle with half the range, with dangerously slippery tires, edges out the Model 3 (a slight edge which is lost in the rounding error)...
UngaBunga1989
Member
"How come Ferrari cannot beat Infiniti's MPG?" The original post is literally equally absurd. And, no disrespect to Infiniti -- they make nice cars, just nothing like Ferraris (as a Hyundai Kona is nothing like a Tesla)...
I just have one thing to add. Even though the original post has been pretty much thoroughly exposed as balderdash............Tesla isn't trying to compete for a narrow market of penny pinchers and hard core environmentalists. Tesla is going squarely against some pretty darn nice European sport sedans. Nobody is trading their BMW M for a Kona. But I'm getting a Tesla and selling my BMW (albeit M-sport, not M5). I also looked at another 5 series, a Q50 Red Sport, and a Jaguar XF-S. Those all have about triple the horsepower of teh Hyundai.
People are choosing Teslas over ICE's because they like the cars, period.
People are choosing Teslas over ICE's because they like the cars, period.
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bwilson4web
hit the spot
TT97
Active Member
the LR RWD, just like the base $35k model, are still offered a-la-carte (so i was told), by order via phone, email of at stores
Take a deep breath and relax. They are lapping the field.
Most stats of this kind aren't meaningful if taken out of context, which is what you've done. M3 has more room, much heavier, twice the range, much faster even in base trim, so a few percentage points of apparent efficiency deficit isn't some kind of debit or sign that Tesla is somehow slipping out of the dominant position.
AlanSubie4Life
Efficiency Obsessed Member
Actually, they are. I don't understand where you are getting this. Look at this list - Tesla is the very top (as previously discussed here, the Ioniq can be discarded based on the unsafe tires it runs to get this MPGe, and it is also in a different range class, anyway, which is not an arbitrary distinction - it affects the physics).
When compared with equivalent equipment, the Tesla Model 3 SR is the MPGe king.
Now, if you want to talk about real cost of charging the vehicle, you'd have to take into account Tesla vampire drain, which I've mentioned earlier, but that's arguably "fixable" (whether it will be is another issue), and separate from the pure MPGe metric. It has been discussed ad nauseum elsewhere, and I don't want to start a discussion about it here; I only mention it for completeness. It IS significant, and if it were counted would drop Tesla off this list entirely, most likely. But according to the EPA test results, Tesla is the best.
Vampire drain is not something I have thought about, but I bet it doesn't affect the MPGe ratings. I leave cars parked around the country for my travel so it is a big factor. I was just about to email my office manager in San Diego to have my Model 3 plugged in so it had enough charge tonight when I get to town. I tried to activate sentry mode while I was away from the car, but it lost so much range that the feature was useless for my needs. My LEAF and Bolt were both very good WRT vampire drain.
AlanSubie4Life
Efficiency Obsessed Member
It does not. (It's possible a small amount would be accounted for incidentally but in any case the test does not capture the real-world impact.)
Yes. It's more of a short-term feature. Drain from Sentry mode is not vampire drain, it is feature drain. Highest consumption (but highest capability possibly) security system on the market!
I think I know the answer! Nobody is talking about regen yet. The Ioniq is raised slightly higher in the rear suspension as compared to its front. So, it is always going a little bit downhill and thereby collects energy from its regen as it drives on a flat road. Whereas the model 3 is perfectly flat, for better handling in corners of course.
Not sure why you keep focusing on the city/combined MPGe. Highway is what matters for a long range EV, and Tesla's is better.
Or is a 3% difference in the cost of electricity consumed somehow important to you?
You won't make that kind of money back buying a new car - and the Tesla will almost certainly hold significantly more value when you get to TCO anyway.
Or is a 3% difference in the cost of electricity consumed somehow important to you?
You won't make that kind of money back buying a new car - and the Tesla will almost certainly hold significantly more value when you get to TCO anyway.
I thought this thread would be summed up by now.
Can we sum it up this way:
The Ioniq city MPGe is better than some Tesla cars because:
- it is a smaller, lighter car
- it uses less powerful drive train
- it has skinny tires
I think we all agree that Tesla could make a car just as efficient as Ioniq if they:
- made a smaller, lighter car
- shrunk the power delivery components
- used skinny tires
I think we all agree that we're happy that Tesla didn't only offer an Ioniq competitor, and there is plenty of room in a competitive automotive landscape for other companies to go that route.
Can we sum it up this way:
The Ioniq city MPGe is better than some Tesla cars because:
- it is a smaller, lighter car
- it uses less powerful drive train
- it has skinny tires
I think we all agree that Tesla could make a car just as efficient as Ioniq if they:
- made a smaller, lighter car
- shrunk the power delivery components
- used skinny tires
I think we all agree that we're happy that Tesla didn't only offer an Ioniq competitor, and there is plenty of room in a competitive automotive landscape for other companies to go that route.
bwilson4web
hit the spot
“MPGe” by itself fails to meet our requirements. If MPGe alone “cranks your tractor,” go with God.
Bob Wilson
ps. So tell us @Reeler about the Model 3(s) you are selling. Location, options, miles, and asking price. Then you’ll have parking place(s) for your next ride. I know some Prius owners who might be interested.
Bob Wilson
ps. So tell us @Reeler about the Model 3(s) you are selling. Location, options, miles, and asking price. Then you’ll have parking place(s) for your next ride. I know some Prius owners who might be interested.
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mod note: 13 posts moved to snippiness.
A reminder - personal attacks include words such as "troll" and "fanboi". They're not permitted here. Some of the posts that were moved were merely quoting someone using these terms and weren't specifically snippy on their own. If there is useful information for the thread, you can go ahead and copy/paste back into the thread.
A reminder - personal attacks include words such as "troll" and "fanboi". They're not permitted here. Some of the posts that were moved were merely quoting someone using these terms and weren't specifically snippy on their own. If there is useful information for the thread, you can go ahead and copy/paste back into the thread.
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