How does Tesla limit range in the SR?

[davewill]

The problem is you have to do it in a way that doesn't overtly piss off existing owners.

In the case of the Model S, the original price difference was ~$7,000 between the software locked 60 and the 75. Then they discontinued the 60, shortly after reduced the price of the 75 by ~$5k. Some time after that they reduced the price for the software unlock down to the new delta of ~$2k.

Since the difference between the two was $4500 and $3000 of that is Autopilot, I'd always assumed the base price of a SR to SR+ upgrade would be $1500. Any reduction (assuming they offer it at all) would likely come quite a ways down the road. If I'm not mistaken, they never DID give the Model S40 owners a price break on an upgrade.

 

[ucmndd]

That's just the nature of dealing with a technology company, or most companies for that matter. Configurations and pricing are always in flux to balance a myriad of factors (e.g. vehicle inventory, demand, component cost/demand, quarterly earnings, etc.). Tesla needn't take into account existing owners when they make pricing or configuration changes. Customers were willing to purchase said configuration for said price. If I don't expect Tesla to offer me yesterday's lower price today, why should customers be upset if Tesla's price today is lower than yesterday? You can't have one and not the other.

That’s a nice principled stance and I don’t necessarily disagree, but look at the level 11 hissy fits thrown in this forum about Tesla’s nonsensical and manic approach to pricing in the last 6 months. It may be completely justifiable from a pure supply/demand/emerging tech company perspective, but it’s bad business.

My main point is you can’t lower the price of the SR -> SR+ unlock any lower than the current SR+ transaction price without undermining the value of what’s currently on offer, so that presents a natural floor to how low it can go.

 

[pdx_m3s]

That’s a nice principled stance and I don’t necessarily disagree, but look at the level 11 hissy fits thrown in this forum about Tesla’s nonsensical and manic approach to pricing in the last 6 months. It may be completely justifiable from a pure supply/demand/emerging tech company perspective, but it’s bad business.

My main point is you can’t lower the price of the SR -> SR+ unlock any lower than the current SR+ transaction price without undermining the value of what’s currently on offer, so that presents a natural floor to how low it can go.

I agree it’s not ideal, but I also think that the same problem is generally true for most cars (price moving around constantly), but with Tesla it is just far more transparent because of their sales model. People pay wide-ranging prices for the same non-Tesla car every day due to dealership and/or manufacturer sales and rebates, haggling, etc. I prefer Tesla’s approach.

Also agree re your point about SR to SR+ upgrade price.

 

[vickh]

I say discontinue the SR like they did the MR (essentially hidden not everyone know about off menu)

 

[darth_vad3r]

I'm hoping they do the same with 3. Reduced upgrade pricing, plus they have more volume and it costs them nothing..

Wrong, it costs them goodwill and angers SR+ owners who overpaid for even more useless features like fog lights if they give it all away cheap to SR owners anyways.

 

[darth_vad3r]

I agree it’s not ideal, but I also think that the same problem is generally true for most cars (price moving around constantly), but with Tesla it is just far more transparent because of their sales model. People pay wide-ranging prices for the same non-Tesla car every day due to dealership and/or manufacturer sales and rebates, haggling, etc. I prefer Tesla’s approach.

Also agree re your point about SR to SR+ upgrade price.

I don’t know of any other non-Tesla cars that can change trims over the air?

Changing prices of the same trim is one thing. Backdooring yourself into a better price to a different trim because they changed what they promised from a true SR to a software-locked-SR+ “SR” is a different story.

 

[pdx_m3s]

I don’t know of any other non-Tesla cars that can change trims over the air?

Changing prices of the same trim is one thing. Backdooring yourself into a better price to a different trim because they changed what they promised from a true SR to a software-locked-SR+ “SR” is a different story.

I think this is an edge-case in the grand scheme of things. Most owners aren’t going to track prices after they purchase the car... they’re just going to enjoy the car as the utility it is and move on with life. Life isn’t always fair and I doubt Tesla really cares about a few pissed off customers that feel like they got screwed out of a couple thousand dollars.

 

[darth_vad3r]

I think this is an edge-case in the grand scheme of things. Most owners aren’t going to track prices after they purchase the car... they’re just going to enjoy the car as the utility it is and move on with life. Life isn’t always fair and I doubt Tesla really cares about a few pissed off customers that feel like they got screwed out of a couple thousand dollars.

There are a LOT of SR+ customers though. And they are going to want more money from these people for FSD, connectivity plans, Model Ys, etc... better to keep a fair percentage of 8x SR+ all happy vs some percentage of the 1x SR owners who might upgrade.*

And as edge-Casey as it may be ... they said SR+ could downgrade ... did that happen? Unfortunately for me that’s not an option in Canada. Our SR is a unicorn with less than 100 mile range that nobody will want. They made it so they could lower the price to let the SR+ qualify for a federal subsidy

*8-to-1 was the initial ratio of SR+ to SR sales IIRC. Since they took it off menu it’s probably 50 to 1 ​

 

[Leafdriver333]

There are a LOT of SR+ customers though. And they are going to want more money from these people for FSD, connectivity plans, Model Ys, etc... better to keep a fair percentage of 8x SR+ all happy vs some percentage of the 1x SR owners who might upgrade.*

And as edge-Casey as it may be ... they said SR+ could downgrade ... did that happen? Unfortunately for me that’s not an option in Canada. Our SR is a unicorn with less than 100 mile range that nobody will want. They made it so they could lower the price to let the SR+ qualify for a federal subsidy

*8-to-1 was the initial ratio of SR+ to SR sales IIRC. Since they took it off menu it’s probably 50 to 1 ​

I for one became a SR+ owner thanks to false information provided by Tesla sales staff.
I am sure a lot of people did also.

Therefore, The 6:1 ratio was due to false information. Had everyone been given correct info, the ratio would have been much different.

 

[acarney]

I for one became a SR+ owner thanks to false information provided by Tesla sales staff.
I am sure a lot of people did also.

Therefore, The 6:1 ratio was due to false information. Had everyone been given correct info, the ratio would have been much different.

False in the sense you weren’t told/didn’t know you could order a Base Standard Range?

 

[Leafdriver333]

False in the sense you weren’t told/didn’t know you could order a Base Standard Range?

Here we go again.
Heated seats is a must for me.
Tesla sales rep told me no heated seats on Standard range.
I had no other option but to order standard range plus. Took delivery shortly after.
Then Elon announced SR+ will be sold as SR. And even then the details were missing.
Now we know front heated seats are included in SR.
Others ordered SR+ for vegan leather power adjustable seats because they didn't want manual cloth seats on a $35K car. That was before Elon announced Tesla would sell SR+ as SR.
That was in March of 2019 which was shortly after Tesla's announced $35k model 3.
And Elon made the SR=Sr+ announcement in early April.
So if Tesla announced from the beginning that SR and SR+ Both came with front heated power leather seats, there would have been a greater number of SR orders and fewer sr+ orders. I see why Tesla did that. SR+ gives them more profit margin than SR

 

[acarney]

Here we go again.
Heated seats is a must for me.
Tesla sales rep told me no heated seats on Standard range.
I had no other option but to order standard range plus. Took delivery shortly after.
Then Elon announced SR+ will be sold as SR. And even then the details were missing.
Now we know front heated seats are included in SR.
Others ordered SR+ for vegan leather power adjustable seats because they didn't want manual cloth seats on a $35K car. That was before Elon announced Tesla would sell SR+ as SR.
That was in March of 2019 which was shortly after Tesla's announced $35k model 3.
And Elon made the SR=Sr+ announcement in early April.
So if Tesla announced from the beginning that SR and SR+ Both came with front heated power leather seats, there would have been a greater number of SR orders and fewer sr+ orders. I see why Tesla did that. SR+ gives them more profit margin than SR

TOTALLY agree with you. I went back and forth between ordering a SR or SR+ because heated seats were a major must for me, but I didn’t care about the extra range or even auto pilot. After talking to four or five different stores and the online chat I kept getting mixed answers on yes heated seats were included and no they weren’t. I finally settled on the SR+ because I just didn’t want to deal with the unknown. Everyone raves about the software upgrades making the car better, but I would be furious if I took delivery of my car in August after verbally being told it includes heated seats just to have them turned off in a software update in October or something. There isn’t a hard spec sheet that I would sign off on, so it would just be going on a verbal agreement with a sales advisor. I feel like that would spawn a class action lawsuit, but I don’t know. So yes, taking it off menu, not having clear published specs, and getting mixed info from different stores certainly is working perfectly to keep the $35k Model 3 basically not being sold.

 

[darth_vad3r]

Here we go again.
Heated seats is a must for me.
Tesla sales rep told me no heated seats on Standard range.
I had no other option but to order standard range plus. Took delivery shortly after.
Then Elon announced SR+ will be sold as SR. And even then the details were missing.
Now we know front heated seats are included in SR.

So they are included and promised (and won’t disappear in an update)?

When I got my SR+, I knew I didn’t get satellite view maps, but I had satellite view maps until an update “fixed” it and removed them.

Same could happen with the heated seats if the SR was t supposed to have that feature?

 

[acarney]

So they are included and promised (and won’t disappear in an update)?

When I got my SR+, I knew I didn’t get satellite view maps, but I had satellite view maps until an update “fixed” it and removed them.

Same could happen with the heated seats if the SR was t supposed to have that feature?

We “know” it in as much as some stores the sales people are saying it is. In my experience more and more stores are saying it is included, even to the point of two reps admitting to me just a couple weeks ago they mistakenly were telling people they weren’t included. Apparently an internal memo went out clarifying once and for all that both SR & SR+ DID have heated seats, but of course that was guidance toward employees and not a press release to the public. Without a hard spec sheet that you physically sign during the paperwork process I would be worried this could go away if Musk deemed it necessary.

If that is the likely outcome I suspect we might see it when there is an official price and procedure for aftermarket upgrade from the SR to SR+. It’s a $4500 difference between the two models. Without factoring in heated seats, that’s $4500 to get autopilot, 20 miles of range, and slightly faster acceleration. (Reports still seem to be mixed if immersive sound is actually active on the SR+)

From my understanding autopilot can be added to the base model for $3,000 during or after delivery. That means it’s $1500 for TWENTY MILES of range and what, 0.3 seconds acceleration or something?

To me that value is horrible, so they either raise the AP price again to be more expensive on that base post delivery, or they’re likely going to miss out on $1500/customer, or they’ll remove the option for post delivery AP purchase on the base.

Now if Musk needs to generate some extra money, disabling heated seats on SR cars and then offering a $4500 upgrade package that unlocks 20 miles, AP, and heated seats might convert most those base guys.

I could also see some breakouts into individual software packages if money is tight. Unlocking front heated seats for $500 to $750 and rear for another $500 (must be combined) or just unlocking range for $1000, or adding AP for $3000 could drive even more revenue. This winter/comfort package would also be more in line with what other manufacturers charge for heated seats now a days, and would literally be a couple lines of code from Tesla.

Without having papers signed, or a public tweet from Musk (that could potentially hold up in court) I wouldn’t bet $35,400 that they’re included :-/

 

[darth_vad3r]

Without factoring in heated seats, that’s $4500 to get autopilot, 20 miles of range, and slightly faster acceleration. (Reports still seem to be mixed if immersive sound is actually active on the SR+)

... and don’t forget those invaluable fog lights!

I paid $2,700 CAD extra for fog lights and ... and ... the ability to charge >92% to 100% a couple times a year? I didn’t get Autopilot (this was before it became “included”).

I charge to 90% max or less. I could have an SR and charge to 98% to the same effect

I could also see some breakouts into individual software packages if money is tight. Unlocking front heated seats for $500 to $750 and rear for another $500 (must be combined) or just unlocking range for $1000, or adding AP for $3000 could drive even more revenue. This winter/comfort package would also be more in line with what other manufacturers charge for heated seats now a days, and would literally be a couple lines of code from Tesla.

Wait, rear seats? Those are software locked too? SR and SR+ were never supposed to have rear heated seats so I thought they had different physical rear seats installed?

I’ve seen a unicorn with supposed working heated rear seats posted, but thought maybe that was a “factory error in their favour” type of thing. I’ve also seen people say they have wiring harnesses, but that doesn’t prove anything IMO, they could still keep the same wiring harnesses ... they still need wires for things like weight sensors and seatbelt sensors.

 

[acarney]

... and don’t forget those invaluable fog lights!

I paid $2,700 CAD extra for fog lights and ... and ... the ability to charge >92% to 100% a couple times a year? I didn’t get Autopilot (this was before it became “included”).

I charge to 90% max or less. I could have an SR and charge to 98% to the same effect


Wait, rear seats? Those are software locked too? SR and SR+ were never supposed to have rear heated seats so I thought they had different physical rear seats installed?

I’ve seen a unicorn with supposed working heated rear seats posted, but thought maybe that was a “factory error in their favour” type of thing. I’ve also seen people say they have wiring harnesses, but that doesn’t prove anything IMO, they could still keep the same wiring harnesses ... they still need wires for things like weight sensors and seatbelt sensors.

I was referring to the wiring harnesses and assuming they were for rear heated seats. I haven’t done a deep dive in there, but light reading on it makes it seem that they are clearly for the heating elements and not the sensors. Depending on Tesla’s ramp and production, it might be cheaper to ship ALL cars with the exact same seats instead of having two different sets of rear seats depending on the trim. Somewhere down the line they might change that, but I wouldn’t be surprised right now if they were identical. Honestly it doesn’t sound like much physical trim is different between Partial and Full premium interior except for missing amps and subwoofer, which would be a “no duh” cost savings in deleting the items. (But I mean Tesla doesn’t have to make a fake non working subwoofer to go in that spot, it’s just a cheap trim piece, or maybe not even that, just the lack of a physical speaker behind a grill)

 

[pdx_m3s]

It’s my understanding that the heating elements are present in the rear seats, but software locked. Both SR and SR+ have heated front seats.

 

[darth_vad3r]

It’s my understanding that the heating elements are present in the rear seats, but software locked. Both SR and SR+ have heated front seats.

Interesting. I wonder why some people can turn the rear seat heaters on?

The SR was supposed to manual fabric seats with no heat, then I undestood it to be the same seats but software-locked heat, and now they've just left out that software-lock? *sigh*

 

[pdx_m3s]

Interesting. I wonder why some people can turn the rear seat heaters on?

The SR was supposed to manual fabric seats with no heat, then I undestood it to be the same seats but software-locked heat, and now they've just left out that software-lock? *sigh*

Rear seat heat for SR/SR+ owners is temporary. Has to do with the firmware installed during assembly. It’s disappears upon the next software update.

From what I can gather, there was never supposed to be an SR+, but instead there was supposed to be an SR with non-premium (cloth, etc) interior that would be sold for $35k. Tesla later decided that having a second interior would add too much complexity in the manufacturing process and hinder production, which was paramount for them at the time (and still is), and that they couldn’t make enough money on an SR with the higher-end interior selling $35k (perhaps with the basic interior as well).

So... they scrapped the SR idea as the main standard range offering and came up with the SR Plus that had the same, nicer interior as other models. Although higher in cost, they could charge more than $35k for it... kicking the $35k car down the road a little further. They finally added the SR model as an obligatory “I told you so” configuration but made it difficult to purchase and software locked out some features.

As a result of this, Tesla can capture more than $35k per standard range model, while at the same time being able to say they made good on their $35k promise, and have less complex manufacturing and procurement processes.