How long before a better replacement batteries will be available?

[Brando]

... My own opinion that this should happen in 3-5 year timeframe, basically as soon as new battery tech is available.

Battery tech improves month by month and year by year - Tesla doesn't wait for 3 to 5 years.
Hence we have "continuous" improvements/upgrades - which some even complain about.
Just look at Model S battery improvements since 2011.

You know that Do It Yourself guys could give you your upgrade. Just buy a salvaged car which has the battery you want.
Just call EV West and ask them for an estimate. You can even let them buy the salvaged car. They do it already and then they take apart the battery pack and re-use the modules in their other projects.

Some will think the old car/pack still good enough.
Some will think that for the money, they would rather just buy a newer version and get all the updates.
Your money, you decide.

 

[PhaseWhite]

This will only happen when Tesla has surplus battery production.. Currently battery production / availability is the bottleneck for both Model3 and S and X production (S,X discussed on Q4 earnings call)

Tesla needs as many batteries as possible to sell cars and with Semi and Model Y coming I certainly don’t see them having extra batteries in the next 5 years.

I hope I’m wrong as I’d love a battery upgrade at some point

 

[Brando]

I didn't say it was "worn out" but it has degraded over 5 years (as I would expect of course). With expected improvements in technology (longer range batteries) and decreasing cost per kWh, coupled with degradation there comes a point when an upgrade should make sense if it is priced reasonably. The battery could be repurposed into supercharger battery backup or other projects not just recycled into it's components.
Also the warranty on the 60kWh is only to 120k miles (not 8 years unlimited miles like the 85's), I could be there in a year or so.

You are wrong. 60 kWh battery - see this policy change from Aug 2014
Infinite Mile Warranty

Infinite Mile Warranty
Elon Musk, CEO August 15, 2014
The Tesla Model S drive unit warranty has been increased to match that of the battery pack. That means the 85 kWh Model S, our most popular model by far, now has an 8 year, infinite mile warranty on both the battery pack and drive unit. There is also no limit on the number of owners during the warranty period.

Moreover, the warranty extension will apply retroactively to all Model S vehicles ever produced. In hindsight, this should have been our policy from the beginning of the Model S program. If we truly believe that electric motors are fundamentally more reliable than gasoline engines, with far fewer moving parts and no oily residue or combustion byproducts to gum up the works, then our warranty policy should reflect that.

To investors in Tesla, I must acknowledge that this will have a moderately negative effect on Tesla earnings in the short term, as our warranty reserves will necessarily have to increase above current levels. This is amplified by the fact that we are doing so retroactively, not just for new customers. However, by doing the right thing for Tesla vehicle owners at this early stage of our company, I am confident that it will work out well in the long term.

– Elon
========================
current warranty for new Model S/X with other warranty extentions and Model 3 information
Vehicle Warranty | Model S and Model X

 

[DFibRL8R]

You are wrong. 60 kWh battery - see this policy change from Aug 2014
Infinite Mile Warranty
current warranty for new Model S/X with other warranty extentions and Model 3 information
Vehicle Warranty | Model S and Model X

Unfortunately, though I wish you were correct, you are wrong.

Take a closer look at the second link you provide under the FAQ section which states:

"The Battery and Drive Unit Limited Warranty covers the repair or replacement of any malfunctioning or defective Model S or X lithium-ion battery for a period of 8 years or unlimited miles/km, with the exception of the original 60 kWh battery (manufactured before 2015) that is covered for a period of 8 years or 125,000 miles (200,000 km), whichever comes first."

I said 120k but it is actually 125k miles.

 

[Brando]

Unfortunately, though I wish you were correct, you are wrong.

Take a closer look at the second link you provide under the FAQ section which states:

"The Battery and Drive Unit Limited Warranty covers the repair or replacement of any malfunctioning or defective Model S or X lithium-ion battery for a period of 8 years or unlimited miles/km, with the exception of the original 60 kWh battery (manufactured before 2015) that is covered for a period of 8 years or 125,000 miles (200,000 km), whichever comes first."

I said 120k but it is actually 125k miles.

Oh man! How lame is that.
IF you keep this car AND the battery goes bad before 8 years unlimited miles Please try to get Tesla to stand by their battery.
(if you are the type that "needs warranty" talk with Tesla about unlimited miles 8 year and see what the upgrade cost would be)

A tactic I might suggest (you didn't hear it from me - but I have used it and suddenly I was treated fairly) You go to the service center, hopefully when the place crowded, and read the warranty - not the 60 kWh exception - and ask why your battery claim isn't being taken care of - as quietly as you can so as not to disturb the room full of potential buyers - you get my drift??

Can't imagine why they won't cover it. Is it a 75 kWh software upgradeable ?? Will they give you unlimited if you pay the upgrade?
Well, possibly another tactic.

This really is not like Elon Musk (just reading the Aug. 2014 letter makes that clear) - why would 60 kWh be an exception?? Surely arbitration would go in your favor.

Since this paragraph is in the FAQ section, I really, really doubt that it is legal.
FAQ sections can't just be used to put in exceptions. Give us a break.
I'd hope just a clerical error and poor proofreading to include old FAQ from before Elon's Letter.
I'm sure you have the support of all Tesla customers that you be given the same warranty they all enjoy.

very strange

 

[DFibRL8R]

I’m hoping not to need the warranty of course, but yes, it seemed strange at the time they announced unlimited miles for the 85kWh packs that they excluded the 60’s.

 

[Brando]

I’m hoping not to need the warranty of course, but yes, it seemed strange at the time they announced unlimited miles for the 85kWh packs that they excluded the 60’s.

It was not announced that way.
It shows up in an FAQ !!
give me a break

 

[DFibRL8R]

It was not announced that way.
It shows up in an FAQ !!
give me a break

Check out the actual warranty link:
https://www.tesla.com/sites/default/files/downloads/Model_S_X_Warranty_NA_en.pdf

Page 4 says:
"Your vehicle’s Battery and Drive Unit are covered under this Battery and Drive Unit Limited Warranty for a period of 8 years, with the exception of the original 60 kWh battery (manufactured before 2015) that is covered for a period of 8 years or 125,000 miles/200,000 km, whichever comes first."

 

[kbecks13]

I know for a fact that replacement batteries for Model 3 are currently available if needed. Doubt that it's a "better" battery, but if something happens to your current pack you have no need to worry about getting a replacement.

 

[Scrith]

Have you ever replaced the gas tank in your car because a bigger one became available?

 

[Krash]

Have you ever replaced the gas tank in your car because a bigger one became available?

The US mandates calculating mileage with full tanks. Since gasoline and diesel are heavy, manufacturers put smaller tanks in vehicles to show better rated efficiency. Many trucks and vans get upgraded with bigger tanks for this reason.

If my combustion engine vehicles took an hour or two to fill up, and gas stations were rare, and replacing the tank would save significant time and risk of being stranded, you bet people would replace them.

 

[dsvick]

Have you ever replaced the gas tank in your car because a bigger one became available?

No, but to follow the analogy through, I might consider it if my gas tank were getting smaller the more I used it ...

Honestly though, I'm sure I'd more than likely just sell the car to someone where the smaller tank would be less important. Which, is the point most of us were making to begin with.

 

[majestic_m00se]

At one point when there was only the Roadster, the S, and the X TESLA and Elon had plans for a battery swap system:

But as I have read more and more about the Model 3 design, I think this idea of battery swapping is dead for now. I am fairly sure that the design of the Model 3 makes it nearly impossible to do this:
Tesla shuts down battery swap program in favor of Superchargers, for now
and I think I read in an article (can't find it now) that the Model 3 does not share the same battery accessibility as the previous Tesla models. I'm sure to discourage people from just buying a new battery. I do think that with the current technology the majority of buyers will purchase a new car before the battery degrades to the point where it would need replacing.

 

[SergeyUser]

Have you ever replaced the gas tank in your car because a bigger one became available?

Replacing a gas tank will not give you a better car, practically speaking. New battery, on the other hand, can make it faster, better rechageable, etc.

But this was not my original point. Tesla should do that to ‘speed up conversion to non-ICE cars’. I know some disagree, but I’m pretty confident the math is correct. To maintain an ever growing fleet of EVs, Tesla will practically add one more way (in addition to selling new cars) to grow it by letting people keep their car longer (and thus not requiring to produce one more EV for the same person).

 

[doubleohwhat]

Tesla should do that to ‘speed up conversion to non-ICE cars’.

One could also argue that not providing battery upgrades results in more people driving EVs. Basically, when someone upgrades to a car with a larger battery, they're old car is sold at a price that is more tempting to people on the fence or those that could otherwise note afford a Tesla. The end result is two EVs on the road instead of one battery-upgraded EV.

 

[Candleflame]

I thought Tesla was a different kind of car company that wouldn't do this to their customers. Building more cars creates a negative environmental impact. I would hope that Musk values this over greed.

Tesla has no duty towards the planet, their duty is to their shareholders. and they will demand car sales.

 

[david_42]

t the Model 3 does not share the same battery accessibility as the previous Tesla models. I'm sure to discourage people from just buying a new battery. /QUOTE]

Although the system isn't designed for swapping, upgrading isn't all that big a deal. Not much worse than an engine replacement in an ICE.

 

[MXWing]

Tesla has no duty towards the planet, their duty is to their shareholders. and they will demand car sales.

I wouldn't go THAT far but:

Elon Musk wants and needs
Tesla wants and needs
TSLA wants and needs

will not always align.

There will never be upgrade retrofits for consumer Tesla's beyond the original Roadster. I note consumer because the equation changes for products like Semi.

You can't even get a Hepa filter or towing kit retrofit for the Model X anymore. Forget about it on the battery,

 

[SergeyUser]

One could also argue that not providing battery upgrades results in more people driving EVs. Basically, when someone upgrades to a car with a larger battery, they're old car is sold at a price that is more tempting to people on the fence or those that could otherwise note afford a Tesla. The end result is two EVs on the road instead of one battery-upgraded EV.

It is not true as long as Tesla is supply-constrained (and according to Tesla, they are). So they sell everything they produce at a maximum pace (equal to their manufacturing rate). So it only matters to prolong already produced cars' life. They will cost whatever market say they should cost, it does not matter from overall EV marketshare prospective. It will only affect who will own these used Teslas.