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JHWJR
Member
I don't think anyone knows this. Here are the likely factors, however.
The Model 3 will be lighter, so the same number of electrons will push it further.
The Model 3 will very likely approach "fully charged" faster, because the battery will be smaller, and will slow down charging sooner.
These two vectors likely meet somewhere and no one outside Tesla has the details to do that math.
That's my guess anyway.
The Model 3 will be lighter, so the same number of electrons will push it further.
The Model 3 will very likely approach "fully charged" faster, because the battery will be smaller, and will slow down charging sooner.
These two vectors likely meet somewhere and no one outside Tesla has the details to do that math.
That's my guess anyway.
Derek Kessler
Active Member
Off a 110V the power being sent into the battery is so low that the new cells won't make a difference — it's a little under 1kW/hour regardless of the battery size of cells.
What will make a difference is the driving efficiency of the Model 3, thanks to its lighter weight and improved aerodynamics. I get 3-4 miles range/hour from a 110V on my Model S, I wouldn't be surprised if a Model 3 managed 4-5 miles range/hour.
What will make a difference is the driving efficiency of the Model 3, thanks to its lighter weight and improved aerodynamics. I get 3-4 miles range/hour from a 110V on my Model S, I wouldn't be surprised if a Model 3 managed 4-5 miles range/hour.
JeffK
Well-Known Member
It'll be like (120v * 12 amps to be safe)1.4 kWh so a little over 5 mph for a car the size of Model 3
strider
Active Member
Not all of those electrons make it into the battery. There is overhead. The OP should not assume more than 3mph on 120V. 4 if Tesla allows you to pull 16A on a 20A circuit (the plug with one blade vertical and the other horizontal is 120V/20A).
JeffK
Well-Known Member
Overhead is 10%... with the lighter weight and more aerodynamic Model 3 will likely get over 4 mi / kWh meaning even with a 10% loss it's still over 5 mph
Who knows what we will end up with in the Model 3, but user Rod and Barbara posted some data points from the Model S in this thread showing 98% charging efficiency at 110V and 12 Amps: Charging efficiency | Tesla
It seems to drop off as you push more power through it as well. For some reason, I thought it would be the other way around - as you increase the power the inverter has to convert, you would get more efficiency, because they would probably design around higher power sources rather than 110V outlets. But that might result in more heat and other losses that I'm not aware of as well.
Per usual, I'll take whatever Tesla provides!
We usually see 3 to 3 1/2 per hour on our MS with nominal outside temps.
(Friends insist on our plugging in to their 110v when we are visiting.)
(Friends insist on our plugging in to their 110v when we are visiting.)
EVie'sDad
Member
The bigger question is, why on earth would anyone charge at 110/120v when there are an abundance of electrical chargers at 240, 350, etc except only in the most dire needs?
Derek Kessler
Active Member
Average American drives 20-30 miles in a day. At 3-4 miles range/hour off 110, you'll easily be able to top off the battery every night after a typical day. 220V is faster, yeah, but if you don't have easy access to a higher-power outlet, 110 will do just fine for most.
EVie'sDad
Member
That is all well and good, if you want to leave your car plugged in all night. I know, that is about the distance of my commute. I charge once or twice a week for a few hours to replenish or refill what I used during the past week and it rarely takes more than 6 hours. On the opposite end of the spectrum, the newest chargers being made available will do three times what a Tesla Supercharger can do, and claims to charge the battery full in a Model 3 in less than 20 minutes! I know these won't be available to our older Model S and X's, but it is nice to see the technology of charging evolve along with the vehicles.
Are you saying you'd prefer to drive to a public charger and charge there for a few hours twice a week, instead of leaving your car plugged into a 110/120 outlet at your residence, or am I misunderstanding?
Pretty simple. I rent. Luckily I rent a condo and have a garage with an electrical connection. If/when I buy something, certainly I would at least install a 220 line. But I drive like 20-30 miles a day so actually it seems a 110 will be more than enough for now.
Derek Kessler
Active Member
I park in a garage, so it's no big deal. It just becomes part of the habit, like closing the garage door after putting the car in park. Get out of the car, plug it in, go inside.
Many times existing wiring can be made into a NEMA 5-20 or NEMA 6-15 outlet for faster charging. It doesn't hurt to see what your landlord will pay for.
Tesla — NEMA 5-20
Tesla — NEMA 6-15
Tesla — NEMA 5-20
Tesla — NEMA 6-15
Reading 110V and 220V is grating on the eyes. It's 120V and 240V. Been that way for more than 50 years.
Almost no such animal as 2 phase power anymore!
From Wiki:
Two-phase electrical power was an early 20th-century polyphase alternating current electric power distribution system. Two circuits were used, with voltage phases differing by one-quarter of a cycle, 90°. Usually circuits used four wires, two for each phase. Less frequently, three wires were used, with a common wire with a larger-diameter conductor. Some early two-phase generators had two complete rotor and field assemblies, with windings physically offset to provide two-phase power. The generators at Niagara Falls installed in 1895 were the largest generators in the world at that time and were two-phase machines. As of 21st century, two-phase power was superseded withthree phases and is not used in the industry. There remains, however, a two-phase commercial distribution system in Philadelphia, Pennsylvania; many buildings in Center City are permanently wired for two-phase[citation needed] andPECO (the local electric utility company) has continued the service. This type of service happens to exist in Hartford, Connecticut. It does serve a few buildings in that city.
Huh? I haven't had an EVSE quoted recently, but it seems most proposals still involve tapping into 2 of the however many phases come into your house.
