How many Roadsters will be produced?

[jcstp]

http://t.co/Ug1mEcv

Lotus ending production of NA-spec Elise/Exige in August

Company officials tell us that production for the UK and the rest of Europe will continue with the new 1.6-liter four pot until the next Elise arrives in 2015.

so time enough to produce extra gliders till Model S comes!

 

[TEG]

http://t.co/Ug1mEcv
Lotus ending production of NA-spec Elise/Exige in August

...a federal exemption for a lack of "smart" airbags on the sports cars is about to run out. The waiver ends this year...

So, is that why Tesla will stop selling in North America and continue elsewhere?

 

[jcstp]

So, is that why Tesla will stop selling in North America and continue elsewhere?

looks like it!

 

[markwj]

So, is that why Tesla will stop selling in North America and continue elsewhere?

Ok, finally a reason to end north American production early that makes sense.

 

[TEG]

And yet another reason (at least in California)
My Nissan Leaf Forum View topic - Tracking the $5k California CVRP Fund

...California Energy Commission Extends Clean Vehicle Rebates in California
Today the California Energy Commission (CEC) and the Air Resources Board (ARB) officially finalized an agreement that will make many EV early adopters in California smile. The interagency agreement puts an extra $2 million dollars in the Clean Vehicle Rebate Project (CVRP). While the CVRP is open to a range of electric, plug-in hybrid electric and fuel cell vehicles, this extra boost in funding from the CEC is reserved for highway capable vehicles that can carry four or more passengers. So this essentially is open to three eligible vehicles in the program, the Nissan LEAF, Honda Clarity and the Azure Connect Transit Connect...some readers will not be too pleased with the conditions associated with the additional CEC funds...

 

[S-2000 Roadster]

Ok, finally a reason to end north American production early that makes sense.

Wait, Tesla sales told me that profits were higher on European Roadsters. That makes way more sense than airbags. Roadsters cost more to manufacture than Tesla sells them, so I can see them wanting to maximize the 'profit.'

 

[benji4]

Wait, Tesla sales told me that profits were higher on European Roadsters. That makes way more sense than airbags. Roadsters cost more to manufacture than Tesla sells them, so I can see them wanting to maximize the 'profit.'

I think probably both reasons probably played into it. Indeed Tesla is probably happy to sell the remaining several 100 Roadsters in Europe and Asia where they can make more money per car, but just the fact that production is ending leaving a big gap between the Roadster and Model S really did not make all that much sense. Tesla would have known about the airbag issue long before it appeared in the press, and that alone is a big enough reason for them not to have pushed for another year of gliders from Lotus. Lotus makes money on those gliders, and Tesla certainly does as well. So why just end it after all those fancy dealerships have gone up all over the world with no product to sell? That just could not have been the original plan, it doesn't make sense. The airbag issue is the most plausible explanation that has come up so far for the end of production of the Roadster. Wanting to make more money on the ones that are left is likely the reason they will be going to Asia and Europe.

 

[markwj]

Wait, Tesla sales told me that profits were higher on European Roadsters. That makes way more sense than airbags. Roadsters cost more to manufacture than Tesla sells them, so I can see them wanting to maximize the 'profit.'

Definitely. A base roadster in Hong Kong is US$137k. Even with a US$4k destination charge, that is significantly more than in the US.

But, they are still going to be left with nothing to sell in those US stores until the Model S in a year's time. Supposedly, they sold 600 in the past year, and have perhaps 800 or 900 more to sell.

Being unable to sell (due to airbag exemption running out) makes more sense to me than just choosing not to sell anything in their home (and biggest market to date) for the next 9-to-12 months.

 

[vfx]

Where does it say the airbag exemption has run out on the Tesla Roadster? Lotus's Elise and Exige are different cars.

Here is the thread coving Tesla's airbag exemption. Lotus does not come up. The airbag saga

 

[markwj]

Where does it say the airbag exemption has run out on the Tesla Roadster? Lotus's Elise and Exige are different cars.

Here is the thread coving Tesla's airbag exemption. Lotus does not come up. The airbag saga

I believe it was a three year extension granted to Tesla in early 2008.

Federal Register | Tesla Motors, Inc.; Grant of Application for a Temporary Exemption From Advanced Air Bag Requirements of Federal Motor Vehicle Safety Standard No. 208

That says the exemption is until January 28, 2011. There was considerable discussion about who is the manufacturer - Tesla or Lotus as they share the same airbag and Lotus builds for Tesla.

 

[Nik]

And yet another reason (at least in California)
My Nissan Leaf Forum View topic - Tracking the $5k California CVRP Fund

Now only to be a $2.5K CVRP fund, according to All Cars Electric

 

[Nik]

Definitely. A base roadster in Hong Kong is US$137k. Even with a US$4k destination charge, that is significantly more than in the US.

How much of that difference is sales tax and import duty?

 

[markwj]

How much of that difference is sales tax and import duty?

Zero. Hong Kong is duty free on import, has no sales tax, and EVs have zero first registration tax. The difference is all profit.

 

[S-2000 Roadster]

... the fact that production is ending leaving a big gap between the Roadster and Model S really did not make all that much sense. Tesla would have known about the airbag issue long before it appeared in the press, and that alone is a big enough reason for them not to have pushed for another year of gliders from Lotus. Lotus makes money on those gliders, and Tesla certainly does as well. So why just end it after all those fancy dealerships have gone up all over the world with no product to sell? That just could not have been the original plan, it doesn't make sense. The airbag issue is the most plausible explanation that has come up so far for the end of production of the Roadster.

I'm probably biased because my salesman told me that Tesla begged Lotus for an extension of the original contract, but Lotus would not have anything to do with it. The story is that Lotus and Tesla workers do not see eye-to-eye at the Lotus facility. Lotus is all about hand crafting and taking whatever amount of time is necessary to get the job done 'right.' Meanwhile, Tesla is on a schedule and wants their dedicated assembly workers to produce on a predictable time table. From the point of view of any other American car manufacturer, Tesla probably seems slow - but from the point of view of Lotus, Tesla is in way too much of a hurry for their work ethic.

The air bag story does make some sense, because it does explain continued sales outside the U.S. But I have a feeling that it's much easier to put political pressure on extending the exemption, especially after getting the alternative fuels loan from the feds, but there really is no way to leverage Lotus if they're no longer interested in the arrangement.

Regardless of the precise reason, the gap actually makes sense to me. The Roadster is incredibly expensive to manufacture all over the world, and Tesla loses money on them anyway. Making no cars for two quarters can't really be any worse than losing money making roadsters. The Model S represents a complete rebirth of the company's assembly line, so a gap makes sense unless Tesla were rich enough to maintain two completely separate factories for a mere two models of vehicles. Once Tesla gets established with their Model S factory, though, I expect that they will never have a gap in production again. At the very least, a future gap will not nearly make as much sense as the present one.

 

[vfx]

.. Lotus is all about hand crafting and taking whatever amount of time is necessary to get the job done 'right.' Meanwhile, Tesla is on a schedule and wants their dedicated assembly workers to produce on a predictable time table. From the point of view of any other American car manufacturer, Tesla probably seems slow - but from the point of view of Lotus, Tesla is in way too much of a hurry for their work ethic.....

Boy, I can remember a lot of concern from the first future Tesla owners. They were talking about poor Lotus finish work and having the cars smell of cigarettes. A more expensive car from those "hacks" (my word). A far cry from your craftsmanship comments.

I knew nothing about Lotus so I was paying close attention back then

 

[S-2000 Roadster]

Boy, I can remember a lot of concern from the first future Tesla owners. They were talking about poor Lotus finish work and having the cars smell of cigarettes. A more expensive car from those "hacks" (my word). A far cry from your craftsmanship comments.

I knew nothing about Lotus so I was paying close attention back then

Ha! Yes, there's still perspective to think about. For Lotus, they probably are unaware of the perception that they take too long and the cars smell of tobacco. That still doesn't mean the old-timer Lotus workers aren't equally critical of the Tesla workers.

I'd really like to know more. Apparently, additional people were hired to run the Tesla Roadster assembly line, but they came from the local cities. I wonder if Tesla has offered to hire these new Lotus workers, and whether any of them would relocate to CA. I also wonder what it means to have a car made "by Lotus" if Lotus has to hire new people to get the job done. Perhaps it's just the design and training that get the time of the experienced employees. I do know that the chassis is what Tesla paid for - that, and the body style.

Personally, I would love to own a Lotus, but I swore off ever buying a gasoline-powered vehicle again some time after I got started with biodiesel circa 2003. I certainly had Lotus envy for a while - every time I saw one on the street around here - but then the Tesla Roadster was announced and I set my sights...

 

[S-2000 Roadster]

But, they are still going to be left with nothing to sell in those US stores until the Model S in a year's time. Supposedly, they sold 600 in the past year, and have perhaps 800 or 900 more to sell.

There are at least 41 Roadsters in the U.S. that are available from Tesla dealers. ... at least one in every color. Only about 6 are non-sport, and the rest are all Sport Edition, so be ready to pay. Canada has access to all of these 41 Roadsters plus 1 or more that have already been exported to Toronto or other Tesla Stores.

I counted about 10 blue, 7 red, 6 black, 6 orange, 5 green, and so on.

One thing to consider is that Tesla may have nearly saturated the market. As it was, the waiting list actually went negative every winter, with cars waiting for owners. That's why we have almost 50 cars that already have an assigned color and options packages instead of custom-order. Tesla had to choose between shutting down their production line for lack of buyers each winter, or make cars on spec and hope that they would eventually sell them. When making a Roadster costs more than the $109,000 base sticker, you can see why Tesla might not think the gap between EOL for the Roadster and launch of the Model S is such a bad thing. No matter what Tesla could have done, they probably would have faced a gap in orders during Q4 2011 and Q1 2012, so why bother?

 

[tomanik]

There are at least 41 Roadsters in the U.S. that are available from Tesla dealers. ... at least one in every color. Only about 6 are non-sport, and the rest are all Sport Edition, so be ready to pay. Canada has access to all of these 41 Roadsters plus 1 or more that have already been exported to Toronto or other Tesla Stores.

I counted about 10 blue, 7 red, 6 black, 6 orange, 5 green, and so on.

One thing to consider is that Tesla may have nearly saturated the market. As it was, the waiting list actually went negative every winter, with cars waiting for owners. That's why we have almost 50 cars that already have an assigned color and options packages instead of custom-order. Tesla had to choose between shutting down their production line for lack of buyers each winter, or make cars on spec and hope that they would eventually sell them. When making a Roadster costs more than the $109,000 base sticker, you can see why Tesla might not think the gap between EOL for the Roadster and launch of the Model S is such a bad thing. No matter what Tesla could have done, they probably would have faced a gap in orders during Q4 2011 and Q1 2012, so why bother?

Why do you believe that Tesla is losing money on every Roadster they sell?

 

[markwj]

Why do you believe that Tesla is losing money on every Roadster they sell?

June 2009: Elon Musk: Tesla to Become Profitable Next Month, Dispells Eberhard Lawsuit Claims

As of this month claims Musk, Roadster cost has been brought down to $80,000, and along with production quantities of 20 to 30 per week, and high uptake of the more expensive Roadster Sport, "we expect to cross over into profitability next month," he writes.

May 2011: Tesla CEO Elon Musk Electric Car Outlook | Nightly Business Report | PBS

But if you look at Tesla`s business lines, the roadster business line and our power train business line, those business lines are actually quite profitable in and of themselves.

 

[tennis_trs]

Why do you believe that Tesla is losing money on every Roadster they sell?

I was wondering the same, especially with a reasonable number being Sport models.