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Tesla car design is on the wrong track?

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Tesla has been doing so many things right, it pains me to zero in on something pretty basic that I think they've been doing badly, or maybe I should say erratically. I'm referring to vehicle design.

I don't mean styling. All credit to Franz. He's done fantastic work with the basic vehicle concepts and platforms that he's been given. The new Roadster in particular is a beauty that can stand up with the classics IMHO. I'm not sure who designed the Semi, but I think it's perfect too. However. . .

Tesla product design has been hit-or-miss. Hits: Model S. Model 3. Model Y. Semi. Misses: Model X. New Roadster. Cybertruck.

The over-engineered Model X was notoriously expensive to produce, when a taller Model S (with conventional doors!) would have been Just Fine. Anecdotally, it was other board members who prevailed on Musk to get the Model Y designed as a taller Model 3 (with a hatch!) instead of a heavily re-engineered and more ambitious vehicle. I think sales numbers will show that reigning in Elon's excesses was the right move for the Y.

The new Roadster is a beauty, but IMO its specifications are too ambitious, and that's one factor (among several) that I believe has delayed and delayed its production. Even when it eventually gets built, I think it's going to be too expensive, too heavy, and too "gadgety" for a lot of real sports car lovers, include many who adore the original Roadster's simplicity and purity. I think the Lotus Type 135 will be closer to what many of us wanted, and it might even hit the market first too.

And now we have the Cybertruck. I'm not going to gripe about its looks, because have you seen current production Ford and GM and Ram pickups? I mean, yeesh, talk about the pot calling the kettle black! None of these are beauty queens. My problem is that the Cybertruck follows the Elon Musk pattern of more-and-bigger everything, and one-upmanship. In the case of pickup trucks, the other companies have already gone there. Their products are monstrosities, largely because CAFE rules in the USA incentivize huge trucks. But those CAFE rules don't apply to EVs! This was a perfect opportunity to create a new category of vehicle, to zig where other companies zagged.

Tesla instead could have done a small pickup truck like we used to see popular in the 1980s, but which Ford and GM and Ram can't produce today (in ICE form) because the CAFE formula would kill them. Tesla could have had that category all to themselves instead of creating a mostrosity to go head-to-head against the F-150 monstrosity.

And the moment came when I realized that I don't have a lot of faith in Tesla's future product plans. It seems like new models are slow to appear, and each one is going to be a roll of the dice. I trust they're going to continue to have advantage in certain areas, like software integration and energy efficiency. But overall design concept? I'm uneasy about that, to say the least.


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"The Rear of the Tesla Roadster 2.0" by jurvetson is licensed under CC BY 2.0.
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Right there with ya. I have been totally disillusioned with Tesla product trajectory for the last 3 years though. They seem to easily nail the hard/important stuff (batteries, motors, efficiency, manufacturing at scale) and totally blow so much other 'easy' stuff (wipers and wiper controls, driver controls in general, parking sensor removal, radar removal, door handles, spare parts availability, etc etc etc). Stuff everybody else has figured out. I dread new product launches now, because I know there is going to be at least one bone-headed element in it that will make it undesirable to a big chunk of consumers (including myself) with absolutely no benefit. Looking at you stalk removal. I really wish they would get back to making awesome vehicles with less needless compromise just because Elon thinks it looks cooler that way or his "all input is error" nonsense. I think when he said that I lost all remaining respect for him (and also sold a decent chunk of my stock) because I knew Tesla was in serious long-term trouble as long as he remained in charge.
 
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Model 3 and the Roaster 2.0 were designed at the same time.


The truck category belongs to Rivian.
The super car category belongs to Rimac.
The sleek and efficient category belongs to Tesla.
 
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Right there with ya. I have been totally disillusioned with Tesla product trajectory for the last 3 years though. They seem to easily nail the hard/important stuff (batteries, motors, efficiency, manufacturing at scale) and totally blow so much other 'easy' stuff (wipers and wiper controls, driver controls in general, parking sensor removal, radar removal, door handles, spare parts availability, etc etc etc). Stuff everybody else has figured out. I dread new product launches now, because I know there is going to be at least one bone-headed element in it that will make it undesirable to a big chunk of consumers (including myself) with absolutely no benefit. Looking at you stalk removal. I really wish they would get back to making awesome vehicles with less needless compromise just because Elon thinks it looks cooler that way or his "all input is error" nonsense. I think when he said that I lost all remaining respect for him (and also sold a decent chunk of my stock) because I knew Tesla was in serious long-term trouble as long as he remained in charge.
The yoke and stalkless design was and is a horrible design blunder. Have you noticed how sales numbers have gone down since they did this ?

I have test driven the model S several times to see if I could just get used to it and the answer is hell no. Don't want any part of that mess.
 
Right there with ya. I have been totally disillusioned with Tesla product trajectory for the last 3 years though. They seem to easily nail the hard/important stuff (batteries, motors, efficiency, manufacturing at scale) and totally blow so much other 'easy' stuff (wipers and wiper controls, driver controls in general, parking sensor removal, radar removal, door handles, spare parts availability, etc etc etc). Stuff everybody else has figured out. I dread new product launches now, because I know there is going to be at least one bone-headed element in it that will make it undesirable to a big chunk of consumers (including myself) with absolutely no benefit. Looking at you stalk removal. I really wish they would get back to making awesome vehicles with less needless compromise just because Elon thinks it looks cooler that way or his "all input is error" nonsense. I think when he said that I lost all remaining respect for him (and also sold a decent chunk of my stock) because I knew Tesla was in serious long-term trouble as long as he remained in charge.

I've said it before, whenever Tesla does something weird or uncomfortable or annoying, It's Always About The Money. The good exception was going to lithium-ion 16V battery to replace lead-acid, but even then there was probably enough warranty service cost to justify.

  1. Wipers suck because Elon won't put in a $10 rain sensor like literally everyone else, and imagines the vision system can do it (nope)
  2. parking sensors. Again, pay less money because he thinks a demo with machine learning which does it well a few times is good enough
  3. turn indicators and stalks: Again, pay less money and if Elon thinks he can signal without it, everyone else can
  4. spare parts availability: all about the money. Why waste capital making parts for people who aren't buying the car? Yuck.
  5. radar removal: all about the money, and maybe someday we will fix autopilot without phantom braking, or not
The Yoke was an Elonism but note that the round wheel is standard again, as it doesn't cost much more.

Yes Elon is a problem now, as the core tech issues with motors, battery and cooling have been solved very well and his ill-considered opinions and greed are starting to outweigh the motivational benefits. Losing money on insane twitter purchase is hitting his pockets and that will make him even worse at Tesla on margins. But just like Twitter he will double down on things which will drive away revenue long term and won't admit he's the problem.
 
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A smaller EV pickup (without such a polarizing design) would have been a great seller. The Ford Maverick is doing great and Toyota Tacoma is ever popular.

The full size trucks have all gotten needlessly enormous. Yes, there’s absolutely people that need a vehicle that size for the work they do, but it’s way overkill for the average person that just wants a truck for occasional home improvement projects or active weekend trips etc.

The Cybertruck looks like it’s going to be another six figure 9000lb “look at me” behemoth just for bragging rights like the Hummer EV.
 
A smaller EV pickup (without such a polarizing design) would have been a great seller. The Ford Maverick is doing great and Toyota Tacoma is ever popular.

The full size trucks have all gotten needlessly enormous. Yes, there’s absolutely people that need a vehicle that size for the work they do, but it’s way overkill for the average person that just wants a truck for occasional home improvement projects or active weekend trips etc.
I really hope that Fisker stays in business and produces the Alaska pickup. Looks the right size to me.

Fisker Alaska | Advanced. Versatile. Powerful.

This new Toyota concept truck also looks interesting.

This Tiny Electric Toyota Truck Could Be the Maverick's Worst Nightmare
 
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The Roadster, alas, is now irrelevant - even assuming it ever sees the light of day. Remember that it was billed as a halo car for all EVs; something that would show off EVs' true sports car potential. Well, everyone pretty much knows now that EVs can be fast. Adding "Space X" package with air thrusters is simply silliness - even if it works as advertised (it won't), a tri-motor design on the existing package, lifted easily from the Plaid, can already be dangerously fast. Butnow that the rest of the world has caught up with Tesla a halo car is irrelevant - what Tesla needs is a few more solid, updated designs, intended for the planet Earth.
Oh, an less political bombast from our Dear Leader that causes a good % of the buying public to be embarassed to be seen in a Tesla.
 
The Roadster, alas, is now irrelevant - even assuming it ever sees the light of day. Remember that it was billed as a halo car for all EVs; something that would show off EVs' true sports car potential. Well, everyone pretty much knows now that EVs can be fast. Adding "Space X" package with air thrusters is simply silliness - even if it works as advertised (it won't), a tri-motor design on the existing package, lifted easily from the Plaid, can already be dangerously fast. Butnow that the rest of the world has caught up with Tesla a halo car is irrelevant - what Tesla needs is a few more solid, updated designs, intended for the planet Earth.
Oh, an less political bombast from our Dear Leader that causes a good % of the buying public to be embarassed to be seen in a Tesla.
I wonder just how many people chose not to buy a Tesla due to EM's X behavior. I suspect a very very small amount. I suggest that people buy what they feel is a good value, and move on. If politics killed car sales, Ford never would have gotten off the start line.
 
I love X design n love driving it. Cybertruck is great too cause its unique.
I'll take luxury n more repairs vs stripped down version n less issues but i'm DIYer so i fix most thinigs myself.
Manufacturers can't always get predictions right, some cars become popular some don't but having options is great.
 
He is not of this world. These genius types rarely are.

The concept is out there, and it now has to be refined to cover areas that the average car buyer will want. As things stand, the design, particualry in the interior, appeals to a certain group, and most of the group members already have Teslas.
 
What made Tesla great is that Elon was a visionary who not only defined the future, but then made it happen. We owe the cars we have, and the Supercharger network, to the force that is Elon.

BUT, the unfortunate downside of someone as driven as Elon is in his single mindedness, which blinds him. Consider Elon’s unwavering belief in Vision, or the use of a 16-volt battery in Tesla cars when everything built for cars is 12-volts!

It is time for Elon to bow out of Tesla.
 
So part of this is simply people's preferences. Look at the 911. Compare today's 911 to the older ones. It is exactly what you accuse the Roadster v3 of being. It is a massive vehicle that is packed with technology yet it is still considered a sports car. The 911 is the Roadster v3's competition, not anything made by Lotus. Thankfully the market is large enough that someone will build the car you want. I do hope that an Eletre will replace my MXP. Personally I love the geeky doors, 3rd row seating, and the power. But it is definitely top-heavy in the curves.
What made Tesla great is that Elon was a visionary who not only defined the future, but then made it happen. We owe the cars we have, and the Supercharger network, to the force that is Elon.

BUT, the unfortunate downside of someone as driven as Elon is in his single mindedness, which blinds him. Consider Elon’s unwavering belief in Vision, or the use of a 16-volt battery in Tesla cars when everything built for cars is 12-volts!

It is time for Elon to bow out of Tesla.
But with whom could he be replaced? No one from the legacy world would have the audacity to build what Tesla has built. Look at the initial EV offerings from the OEMs. The Leaf? Bolt? Fine cars for what they were (grocery-getters) but nothing that would cause someone to look up from their ICE.

IMO, Elon needs to stay on as product evangelist to push the company to do audacious things but have someone with the knowledge and authority to actually handle the details and run the place. If he doesn't want to have to "step down" he could remain CEO but hire (and give autonomy to) a COO that could handle operations. I think that would be the best of both worlds. Elon's vision with someone that can execute without reinventing the wheel every time.
 
Tesla needs the Gen 3 ($25k) vehicle to be a success. They have the middle and high end market covered and continue to refine the existing models. It’s the “cheap” vehicle that will make Tesla a mass-market car manufacturer.

The problem is Elon and his downward spiral of bad ideas and forcing talent who doesn’t support his bad ideas out of the company.

No stalks is controversial, to say the least. The mass market is not going to want a car without stalks.

FSD is too expensive and is too far off from the dream. “Robotaxi” is not a selling factor for the Gen 3 vehicle in the near term.

On the latest earnings call, Elon was talking about removing more parts. I get why he thinks that way, but he’s removing important hardware that could jeopardize the safety of the vehicles and turn people off from making a purchase.

I am hopeful, but skeptical that Tesla can produce a $25k vehicle that the masses want with Elon guiding the decisions.
 
I want Elon to stay, but for the earnings calls he needs to elevate and have lead, the SMEs he has on the team for finance, design, energy, robotics and manuf. Let them present, talk and field all Q&A.

Definitely rehearse where they all talk to the same theme, not disjointed like the CFOs comment about EV adoption vs EMs message of it’s about vehicles and not EVs.

Get us to know them better. For example, let Hans and Tom talk to the challenges with the CT design and manufacturing. Also, want to hear directly from Rebecca about supercharging, V4 rollout, magic dock, manuf alliances, etc. Want to hear from Andrew about 4680s gens in use and what’s next. Have Tom and Hans talk to M2 starting in Austin and migrating to multiple factories globally.

The call could have been totally different, upbeat, and positive while minimizing the 7% decline q/q, not meaning a lot, vs y/y big growth.
Model Y number 1
CT will be a huge disruptor
M3 is bring back sedan excitement
M2 and RT will be amazing and also disrupt

Tesla is in this for the long game.

Elon, keep up the Master Plan comms
Talk high level, be grateful
Show patience with global finances, aka interest rates
Let your SME shine and into the weeds
 
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