How much does your electricity cost?

[SSedan]

Let us be honest here, solar paying for itself quickly is highly dependent on a sunny location and high electric rates. Not a knock on solar just saying let's be real if you have cheap electricity financial gain via short payback is not likely to be enough "justification". Now if you are willing to take a financial hit or accept a long payback to use solar for it's energy independence that is wonderful but understand that from strictly financial this is hard to justify for most.

 

[Zythryn]

But how much did that solar system cost?

I don’t know about the poster you replied to, however we have a ~3 year old system for which I made all those calculations.

Dividing the total cost plus replacement inverters by the expected production over 35 years (expected lifetime of panels) we get 11.5 cents per kWh.
If we figure in immediate rebates, we get 8.5 cents/kWh.
If we figure in the net metering and additional rebates (production rebate for 10 years) we are down to 1.5 cents/kWh.

So basically, we prepaid for 35 years of electricity at a static rate of $0.015/kWh.
If you are in a situation where you can add solar panels, it is pretty obviously a good way to go.
If you get incentives it makes it even better.

As for location, we are in Minneapolis. Not a bad area for solar, but certainly not a great one.

 

[SomeJoe7777]

Let us be honest here, solar paying for itself quickly is highly dependent on a sunny location and high electric rates. Not a knock on solar just saying let's be real if you have cheap electricity financial gain via short payback is not likely to be enough "justification".

That's the thing ... here in Texas I have a large roof and tons of sun, I could generate a lot. But Texas power is so cheap that you can't get the paypack period to be less than about 10-12 years in the best case.

I'm on a 100% renewable energy TOU plan that charges a total of 14.95 cents/kWh (power charge + delivery charge) from 6AM - 9PM, and then 9PM - 6AM power is free. SInce I charge at night and attempt to do laundry and dishes after 9PM, I'm able to get over 60% of my electricity free. That makes my average price less than 7 cents/kWh.

There is no rebate or incentive for solar in Texas, and no net metering or buyback (not allowed), so if you want to do solar you've either got to 1) only compute what you can save during the day, since night power is free, or 2) use Powerwalls to shift solar-generated power to the 6AM-9AM and 6PM-9PM hours where solar generation is low, but power cost is high.

You simply can't save enough money to justify the solar panels + powerwall cost when you have only a 6-hour window each day, cheap daytime electricity rates, and free electricity nights.

 

[SleeperService]

That's the thing ... here in Texas I have a large roof and tons of sun, I could generate a lot. But Texas power is so cheap that you can't get the paypack period to be less than about 10-12 years in the best case.

I'm on a 100% renewable energy TOU plan that charges a total of 14.95 cents/kWh (power charge + delivery charge) from 6AM - 9PM, and then 9PM - 6AM power is free. SInce I charge at night and attempt to do laundry and dishes after 9PM, I'm able to get over 60% of my electricity free. That makes my average price less than 7 cents/kWh.

There is no rebate or incentive for solar in Texas, and no net metering or buyback (not allowed), so if you want to do solar you've either got to 1) only compute what you can save during the day, since night power is free, or 2) use Powerwalls to shift solar-generated power to the 6AM-9AM and 6PM-9PM hours where solar generation is low, but power cost is high.

You simply can't save enough money to justify the solar panels + powerwall cost when you have only a 6-hour window each day, cheap daytime electricity rates, and free electricity nights.

Wow, FREE electricity at night? The TOU plan where I live is basically "we'll charge to 1c/kWh more during the day and 1c/kWh less during the night than the standard rate you pay right now" ...not particularly advantageous.

 

[ninpb]

That's the thing ... here in Texas I have a large roof and tons of sun, I could generate a lot. But Texas power is so cheap that you can't get the paypack period to be less than about 10-12 years in the best case.

I'm on a 100% renewable energy TOU plan that charges a total of 14.95 cents/kWh (power charge + delivery charge) from 6AM - 9PM, and then 9PM - 6AM power is free. SInce I charge at night and attempt to do laundry and dishes after 9PM, I'm able to get over 60% of my electricity free. That makes my average price less than 7 cents/kWh.

There is no rebate or incentive for solar in Texas, and no net metering or buyback (not allowed), so if you want to do solar you've either got to 1) only compute what you can save during the day, since night power is free, or 2) use Powerwalls to shift solar-generated power to the 6AM-9AM and 6PM-9PM hours where solar generation is low, but power cost is high.

You simply can't save enough money to justify the solar panels + powerwall cost when you have only a 6-hour window each day, cheap daytime electricity rates, and free electricity nights.

So that's great. EV growth must be huge where you live.

 

[SomeJoe7777]

Wow, FREE electricity at night? The TOU plan where I live is basically "we'll charge to 1c/kWh more during the day and 1c/kWh less during the night than the standard rate you pay right now" ...not particularly advantageous.

Infuse Energy

Try zip code 77494 (Katy, TX).

Click on the button at the top right "Show me Green Plans", then click on the "CareFree Nights Plans" tab.

Just a warning about how electricity prices are allowed to be advertised in Texas: They are allowed to advertise average cost per kWh. So on a TOU plan, the number you're seeing is an average of a higher rate during the day + the lower (or free) rate at night, with an assumed day/night split. This also applies to tiered plans where the first 500 kWh per month is one rate, then the next 1500 kWh are a different rate, then over 2000 kWh is a 3rd rate.

Bottom line is that you need to know your own total usage and pattern of usage to accurately compute what you'll really pay. It may be close to the average cents/kWh that is advertised, or may not be, depending on your own usage.

You can also get an apples-to-apples comparison of all electricity plans available in your area at Power To Choose | Home.

(Sorry, I know you're in Indiana and this doesn't apply to you, but I'm posting it here for reference to other Texans.)

 

[SomeJoe7777]

So that's great. EV growth must be huge where you live.

You'd think it would be, but it's a lot less than that.

A) Texans are pretty set in their ways and the EV is a foreign concept to many. Trucks & SUVs account for well over 50% of sales, and over 75% of advertising.
B) Dealers here have not sold EVs, have not advertised them, and many don't even carry them. Those that do don't have anyone who knows anything about them and frequently don't have anyone who can service them. You currently can't even buy a GM Bolt here without having it special-ordered.
C) Electricity is cheap and there are no EV-specific taxes, which is good, but there's also no incentives. No state rebates, no HOV decals, etc.
D) Gas is cheap too. Most recent prices are still $2.75/gal, sometimes less.
E) A conservative-leaning voter base frequently sees misinformation promulgated from those "news" sources that claim to be unbiased but have anti-EV agendas.

If the EVs were readily available and the public was educated as to their advantages, they'd take off. But both of those things are going to be a long time coming.

 

[BrokerDon]

My "exorbitant" home charge pricing of $0.13/kWh gets me about $0.042/ mile. vs. ICE @ $0.085/ mile.

The ICE cars we replaced were ~ 19 MPG @ $3.98/gallon (Premium) = 21¢ / mile vs. 4¢ / mile for our 2015 Ludicrous P85D which replaced both my 505 hp 2006 Corvette Z06 and our 2004 Jeep Grand Cherokee Overland 4x4 V-8 with 2" lift and 32" BFG All Terrain tires.

Best "2 for 1" trade EVER

 

[StealthP3D]

My truck that gets 17mpg in summer does not fall to 6mpg in winter, more like 15, I barely drive it, won't take it unless we are getting 6" or more snow.

I hear a lot of stories about fossil car/trucks which seem pretty optimistic relative to my many years experience with fossil cars/trucks.

In very cold weather, 17 MPG to 15 MPG is the kind of hit fossil vehicles take on a long highway trip. When short-tripping and warming up the engine, defrosting, etc. it's much more than that.

The other fallacy I hear a lot about fossil vehicles is they go 200,000 miles with no repairs/replacements except for a few oil changes. In your dreams!

 

[StealthP3D]

You'd think it would be, but it's a lot less than that.

A) Texans are pretty set in their ways and the EV is a foreign concept to many.

In Texas, an American made Tesla is "foreign" and the Russian government is our "friend".

B) Dealers here have not sold EVs, have not advertised them, and many don't even carry them. Those that do don't have anyone who knows anything about them and frequently don't have anyone who can service them. You currently can't even buy a GM Bolt here without having it special-ordered.

I thought the independent dealer network was supposed to excel at being responsive to a customer's needs. I guess it's only when those needs align with the interests of the dealership.

D) Gas is cheap too. Most recent prices are still $2.75/gal, sometimes less.

Sometimes more. Even $2.75/gal. doesn't seem that "cheap" when filling a 36 gallon tank (which is probably considered "small" in Texas)!

E) A conservative-leaning voter base frequently sees misinformation promulgated from those "news" sources that claim to be unbiased but have anti-EV agendas.

Texas accounts for 38% of domestic oil production. I guess it's not surprising that ignorance is bliss.

 

[SSedan]

I hear a lot of stories about fossil car/trucks which seem pretty optimistic relative to my many years experience with fossil cars/trucks.

In very cold weather, 17 MPG to 15 MPG is the kind of hit fossil vehicles take on a long highway trip. When short-tripping and warming up the engine, defrosting, etc. it's much more than that.

The other fallacy I hear a lot about fossil vehicles is they go 200,000 miles with no repairs/replacements except for a few oil changes. In your dreams!

My truck needed a tranny, my Tesla needs one of the chargers replaced cost is similar. The idea EVs are magically without issue is a bald faced lie.

 

[LCR1]

Jesus Cristo that's almost unbelieveable. .45 KWH wow. I would change jobs or whatever I had to do to get the hell out of there.

That is one of the worst rip offs I've ever heard of.
Must be Republican MBA'S running the board of utilities.

Pacific Gas and Electric Company Officers

 

[SageBrush]

about half what the M3 cost, and it's paid for and the break even point will be achieved in about 9 months!

This use of 'break-even' is confusing. Break-even almost certainly happened on Day #1 of your PV system.
I think you are saying that your savings to date and including those expected over the next 9 months will have paid for the system.

 

[SageBrush]

Let us be honest here, solar paying for itself quickly is highly dependent on a sunny location and high electric rates. Not a knock on solar just saying let's be real if you have cheap electricity financial gain via short payback is not likely to be enough "justification". Now if you are willing to take a financial hit or accept a long payback to use solar for it's energy independence that is wonderful but understand that from strictly financial this is hard to justify for most.

Because a CD is so much better ?
Or perhaps you were thinking of the great interest rates your local bank pays on your savings ?

Your statement is not reasonable unless you compare an alternative opportunity cost with similar liquidity and risk.

 

[LCR1]

What kind of *sugar* are you smoking?

You'd think it would be, but it's a lot less than that.

A) Texans are pretty set in their ways and the EV is a foreign concept to many. Trucks & SUVs account for well over 50% of sales, and over 75% of advertising.

Yes Texas loves trucks, and it's their God given right to buy whatever they want.

B) Dealers here have not sold EVs, have not advertised them, and many don't even carry them. Those that do don't have anyone who knows anything about them and frequently don't have anyone who can service them. You currently can't even buy a GM Bolt here without having it special-ordered.

This simply tells me you've never looked, there's plenty of dealers with EVs in stock. Here's one dealer with 7 in stock for you to buy today.
https://www.classicchevyhouston.com/VehicleSearchResults?model=Bolt EV#close
I never had a problem getting someone to look at the Leaf, and I know people who work on the BMW and GM hybrids and electric vehicles.

C) Electricity is cheap and there are no EV-specific taxes, which is good, but there's also no incentives. No state rebates, no HOV decals, etc.

Again simply not true. Texas put millions of dollars toward green car incentives, sorry you didn't get your application in on time.
Light-Duty Motor Vehicle Purchase or Lease Incentive Program - TCEQ - www.tceq.texas.gov

D) Gas is cheap too. Most recent prices are still $2.75/gal, sometimes less.

It usually helps when you're closer to the refining and distribution and your state isn't jacking up taxes.

E) A conservative-leaning voter base frequently sees misinformation promulgated from those "news" sources that claim to be unbiased but have anti-EV agendas.

If the EVs were readily available and the public was educated as to their advantages, they'd take off. But both of those things are going to be a long time coming.

Funny you claim others are spreading misinformation when that seems to be the purpose of your post.

 

[quikshifter]

You'd think it would be, but it's a lot less than that.

A) Texans are pretty set in their ways and the EV is a foreign concept to many. Trucks & SUVs account for well over 50% of sales, and over 75% of advertising.
B) Dealers here have not sold EVs, have not advertised them, and many don't even carry them. Those that do don't have anyone who knows anything about them and frequently don't have anyone who can service them. You currently can't even buy a GM Bolt here without having it special-ordered.
C) Electricity is cheap and there are no EV-specific taxes, which is good, but there's also no incentives. No state rebates, no HOV decals, etc.
D) Gas is cheap too. Most recent prices are still $2.75/gal, sometimes less.
E) A conservative-leaning voter base frequently sees misinformation promulgated from those "news" sources that claim to be unbiased but have anti-EV agendas.

If the EVs were readily available and the public was educated as to their advantages, they'd take off. But both of those things are going to be a long time coming.

I have to disagree with you on a few points.

The Woodlands area has a lot of Teslas and Texas does have a $2500 EV incentive for every manufacturer except Tesla.

 

[LCR1]

I have to disagree with you on a few points.

The Woodlands area has a lot of Teslas and Texas does have a $2500 EV incentive for every manufacturer except Tesla.

It wasn't "except Tesla" it's open to every vehicle purchased in Texas. Tesla doesn't sell in Texas therefore you can't apply a credit. If Tesla sold vehicles in Texas then it'd be eligible for the rebates.

 

[skrtskrt]

I'm paying about $80 more now a month for electricity. Is this normal?

 

[SleeperService]

I'm paying about $80 more now a month for electricity. Is this normal?

Depends on how much/how you drive. I put ~2k miles per month on my car. That's about how much my electricity bill went up (@11.75 c/kWh)

 

[ninpb]

I'm paying about $80 more now a month for electricity. Is this normal?

It's phenomenal if you drive 10k miles a month.