How much gas needs to cost that EV is cheaper?

[JetFalcon]

So how is it possible for low income people who can't afford EV to afford gas at $40-60 for full tank. But not be able to afford an EV, that could essentially making driving way cheaper? I thought at some point, people would realize EV is cheaper, go buy EVs, and then gas stations would start lowering their price or going outta business because everyone decided they don't wanna pay $4 gallon to go 20-40 miles. But it seems some people are still driving piece of crap gas cars and still can afford $40-60 for tank of gas every week. At some point, wouldn't EV make sense for low income people, or anyone that just wants to save money? What if gas was $10 / gallon, making it $150 per full tank, I think some parts of Europe are around that.

If someone buys a $1000 car, it be like 16 fill ups and they already spent more on gas than the actual car. So even if you buy a piece of crap car, you can't buy piece of crap gas. Well you can, but its only like 20-40 cents cheaper at $3-4 gallon and that's enough to be a bargain.

I don't really know how to calculate how much it costs to charge my EV, but I always charge at night and live in OC Southern CA. My SCE electric bill is on autopay so I don't really check it, but it's usually $200-300 month. But that's for everything, so the EV is only a part of it, but I have no idea what percent is my EV charging.

Seems like you can get a used EV for around $5000
Autotrader - page unavailable

 

[brkaus]

The cheap used EVs have low range. Not really useful for the majority.

It’s also hard for people living month to month to make an big purchase even if it will save money in the long term.

and living in apartments with no charging, or worse, high priced ChargePoint

 

[JetFalcon]

And also I'm ranting right now.

This 40 yr single dad said he will pay me back $425 for scrapping my car is having a hard time paying me back. I chose the cheapest option I could find, he said it was okay, and I went and did it. I had $425 sitting around in a safe, so I just paid it like no big deal. But the guy doesn't have $425 sitting around in a safe or ATM, and this guy is a dad. I mean how much does this guy have in his bank account if $425 is like a monumental amount of money for this guy?

And it's been over a month. He only paid me $265 so far, but in a Target gift card (he returned Beats Pro), which I accepted at full value so I can recoupe some of his debt to me and hopefully make him willing to pay me back the full amount. But when he gave me the Target gift card, I saw cash in his man purse thing. So I'm like thinking, why can't he just give me all the money he has until he reaches $425?

All he tells me is he has to pay divorce related stuff and 2 kids and gas. I kinda gave up on asking for cash and just asked him if he had anything of value like new electronics. He proposed some electronics, but then he wanted time to think about it. I was a bit confused why, I was willing to accept full value on his electronics when most people on Craigslist or pawn shops will low ball him 20-50% of its value. So then he tells me he wants to save his electronics to pawn off for gas money. That must be the most inefficient way to pay for gas if you have to pawn stuff off. Maybe just not buy the stuff, and put that money aside for gas. I'd rather find a mom / pop gas station and just trade them electronics for gas, and hopefully get more gas than cash offered from a pawn shop. But yeah, why will people pawn stuff off, its not like you're making a profit off pawning things off, you likely will lose the money you spent on them in the first place.

At least he stayed around and owed up to his mistake, and wanted to try pay for it. But then I also just wondered why he didn't take off if he can't even pay $425. The damages could have been $1000+. Even rich people in Mercedes will consider taking off if they hit something, like that one woman in OC who got a new Mercedes, hit a bike, and took off.

 

[Candleflame]

So how is it possible for low income people who can't afford EV to afford gas at $40-60 for full tank. But not be able to afford an EV, that could essentially making driving way cheaper? I thought at some point, people would realize EV is cheaper, go buy EVs, and then gas stations would start lowering their price or going outta business because everyone decided they don't wanna pay $4 gallon to go 20-40 miles. But it seems some people are still driving piece of crap gas cars and still can afford $40-60 for tank of gas every week. At some point, wouldn't EV make sense for low income people, or anyone that just wants to save money? What if gas was $10 / gallon, making it $150 per full tank, I think some parts of Europe are around that.

If someone buys a $1000 car, it be like 16 fill ups and they already spent more on gas than the actual car. So even if you buy a piece of crap car, you can't buy piece of crap gas. Well you can, but its only like 20-40 cents cheaper at $3-4 gallon and that's enough to be a bargain.

I don't really know how to calculate how much it costs to charge my EV, but I always charge at night and live in OC Southern CA. My SCE electric bill is on autopay so I don't really check it, but it's usually $200-300 month. But that's for everything, so the EV is only a part of it, but I have no idea what percent is my EV charging.

Seems like you can get a used EV for around $5000
Autotrader - page unavailable

electricity isn't that much cheaper. you need to drive a significant amount of kilometers for it to be worth it and then theres hardly any cheap second hand EVs with decent range.

 

[JetFalcon]

electricity isn't that much cheaper. you need to drive a significant amount of kilometers for it to be worth it and then theres hardly any cheap second hand EVs with decent range.

Is there an exact dollar amount per full charge on an EV? Or like an exact dollar amount for every 5-10% increment of charge, which can take the place of gallons of gas?

Well since most cars fill up around 15 gallons for an empty tank, maybe 6 percent of a battery is like a gallon of gas? Based on that most Teslas charge at 90% (not 100%), and 90% is kinda like our full tank of gas for most commutes? Because 90 divide 15 is 6. So 6 percent of a battery should be like a gallon of gas?

I also would like to know this in case I get a roommate who also has an EV, since I have a house that I could rent out rooms. Should I just include it for free or make the roommate pay for electricity used? But how will you even know how to split that kinda bill up?

Or what if you had a house guest crashing for a few days, and they owned a Tesla / EV? Do you let them charge for free like they were charging a phone?

 

[glide]

Some people are really, really, really out of touch.

 

[pipestem]

I bought my 2015 Leaf in late 2017 for $10.5k. Very efficient car. Over 13000 miles, I would have spent approx 12c * 13000 mi / 4 mi / kwh = $390 for electricity. If I had a 30 mpg car, I would have spent $2.30 * 13000 mi / 30 mpg = $996 for gas. There are other incidental costs of course but lets say they wash out. Lets even assume I have access to even 120V charging, which is ok with only 24KWh batteries (I know). The regular cost is yearly tax which we could say would have been equivalent. The Marooney sticker books it for 5 years, so that is $3030. Of course after 5 years my Leaf battery would have probably been down to about 55 miles range. So, as long as all my drivers were less than 55 miles between chargers, or per day, I would have been fine!

But what if i needed to pick up my kid from swim practice across the town? Or I needed to go an emergency room 30 miles away? Or my daughter gets in a car accident 20 miles from the nearest charger? All this happened. That is a lot of risk. Obviously, this was not my only car. More importantly, I think is the uncertainty. When you buy a gas car you know what you are getting, so you can quickly understand the pros and cons and costs. The e-car is a question mark. Not many people have them. If you don't have much cash, you take the safer bet, every time.

 

[qdeathstar]

poor people (and rich people for that matter) should be using mass transit. But especially poor people, insurance cost, maintenance costs on a busted car, fuel, ect is like pissing in the wind if you are poor.

 

[Kilotango74]

Not paying for gas is just a bonus for me. Defiantly not the prime reason for purchasing my Tesla.

 

[pipestem]

very few places where you can live and really rely on mass transit in this country. if possible though, its great. and there are a lot of people that legitimately cannot afford a car, any car.

 

[Mrcarcrazy]

this feels like bait. I’m walking away.

 

[ThomasD]

My son has a 70 mile round trip everyday. After his other vehicle died we had a budget of 3,000. Paid 2000 dollars for the car. 35 to 40 a week in fuel with liability insurance Replaced the brakes and hoses myself. I have a used truck cost 8000 dollars. Cost of insurance and gas a month average 240 dollars. Some weeks are more Have never exceeded 450 a month in fuel cost Replaced brakes water pump and steering box myself. 2 year repair maintenance cost 650 dollars. I added up the cost for renting a truck every time I need one and it's higher than ownership. There isn't one ev that will meet my family needs at these costs to purchase. I could not find an ev with at least a 100 mile range minimum for less than 6000 dollars.

 

[Candleflame]

Is there an exact dollar amount per full charge on an EV? Or like an exact dollar amount for every 5-10% increment of charge, which can take the place of gallons of gas?

Well since most cars fill up around 15 gallons for an empty tank, maybe 6 percent of a battery is like a gallon of gas? Based on that most Teslas charge at 90% (not 100%), and 90% is kinda like our full tank of gas for most commutes? Because 90 divide 15 is 6. So 6 percent of a battery should be like a gallon of gas?

I also would like to know this in case I get a roommate who also has an EV, since I have a house that I could rent out rooms. Should I just include it for free or make the roommate pay for electricity used? But how will you even know how to split that kinda bill up?

Or what if you had a house guest crashing for a few days, and they owned a Tesla / EV? Do you let them charge for free like they were charging a phone?

you calculate the cost of 100 km driven per cent spent.

In Germany you pay 1.30 euro / litre of diesel and 30c/kwh.

So i.e. a small turbodiesel at 90km/h would use maybe 4.5L (in reality it'll probably be a bit less) of diesel, lets say 5.85 euros.
A Model 3 driving at 90km/h would probably use around 16.5kwh for 100km so that would be 4.95 euros.

So as you can see there isn't much difference and it is even more expensive to use supercharger stations.
With lots of highway driving a diesel is probably much cheaper and arguably some small petrol engines will also beat electric due to the high prices of electricity in europe.
With lots of city driving the calculations becomes very skewed i.e. due to EVs being able to charge for free in the city and being generally more efficient in city driving. In that case you can just look at your average money spent on fuel every month...

 

[Twiglett]

dead easy answer - if you only travel a short distance then gas needs to cost around $40,000 a gallon to make an EV cheaper
more importantly, a better comparison would be how many oranges fit on your roof if gas costs $2.50 a quart.

 

[linux-works]

my gas car costed me $250/mo (roughly) just for fill-ups, to get me to work and back. very little fun driving (didn't really enjoy that car, toward the end).

my company gives free charging at work. lucky, since I live in an apartment and there is no charging here at all (and the landlord could not care less).

so, I'm saving $250/mo. for some, that's a whole car payment!

maintenance is going to be much lower, as that's the general rule for electric vs gas.

tire cost will be higher, but that's because this car is fun (lol). if I took it easy, tires would not have to be replaced as much.

overall, its a big win. I'm paying about the same per month for this car as I did for my passat, some 15 years ago. the ownership experience, so far, is much better, fun factor is much higher, can drive in HOV lane (saving time) and since many companies give free charging, even if I change jobs, I'm not going to sweat it too much.

insurance is about the same. registration is not going to be all that much different (state to state).

 

[qdeathstar]

very few places where you can live and really rely on mass transit in this country. if possible though, its great. and there are a lot of people that legitimately cannot afford a car, any car.

uh... most cities with a population greater than 100K?

 

[ThomasD]

What I want to know is how much is your car payment plus insurance cost. If fuel was 10 dollars a gallon then our economy would suffer greatly. The cost of items not just fuel would skyrocket. Trucking companies and drivers would park their rigs along the roadways. Cities would cut back on services. Smaller towns maybe crippled.

 

[brkaus]

Or what if you had a house guest crashing for a few days, and they owned a Tesla / EV? Do you let them charge for free like they were charging a phone?

At US average electric prices it’s about $10-12 to fill up a model S. Perhaps $7-8 for a 3. So, it depends on the friend. Do you charge your friends for dinner or a beer when they are crashing at your house?

 

[linux-works]

Do you charge your friends for dinner or a beer when they are crashing at your house?

if they crash at my place, they better have both collision AND comprehensive!

(oh, wait.)

 

[ThomasD]

Mass transit depends on where you live and where you are going.