How Tesla Managed to Alienate Their Most Loyal Customers

[AlMc]

Since a moderator has visited Roamer to view his X and let his dogs check it out (and a test drive, I believe), I think it's safe to say he's not a sock puppet for a Seeking Alpha shill.

Let's show respect for fellow forum members. Please.

Look, these are people who've had skin in the game waiting on their vehicle. They've been advocates for the company. They're feeling disillusioned. While I don't share the same sentiments, I get it & they certainly have a right to express how they feel.

IIRC:'Roamer' ordered two SigXs: he already has the first one and the second one is still at the factory. In addition, he already has at least two, if not three model Ss in his family. If there was a top 10 list of 'loyal' customers he would be on it. In addition, he has repeatedly referred to himself as a 'fan boy'....A term I do not use other than to point out his commitment to TM and the EV revolution.

on a lighter note: I know these things because I have asked him to adopt me several times....he has wisely refused :biggrin:

 

[JRP3]

Julian, knee jerk assumptions and accusations of SA sock puppeteering without even checking some posting history is less than helpful. It actually is possible to be pissed off at Tesla for various reasons without being the enemy.

 

[omarsultan]

I think "SA Sock Puppet" has now entered my lexicon.

 

[eloder]

The point is I think most of us are hoping they'll set the bar higher than that.

I don't believe it possible for a technology company to have transparency and crystal-clear communication when it comes to being on the bleeding edge. Things will change, and they will change rapidly. It's easy for an automaker with mostly 100 year old tech to be crystal-clear because changes are far and few between. It's much harder when you work in an organization that can and will change major policies and design decisions in the blink of an eye to stay current.

I speak from my own experience working in a fortune 15 company with many millions of customers. On the outside, some customers are really pissed off because they're not getting X software update in time. Internally, said software updates are being held back because of crippling bugs caused even more complaints for customers who had already received said update. You can't please anyone in the technology business no matter what you do or say if you're on the bleeding edge.

Tesla isn't going to come out and say "Oh, all production is on hold because we're re-fitting FWD seals and to decrease the possibility of warranty issues" or something like that. They'll just do it. When you tell your average person that production is on hold for major quality issues, they'll start to second guess the quality of the product.

Some of the biggest, best, and most profitable technology companies have horrid customer service and communications issues (Google, Youtube before they were bought out, Apple... could go on). Just like all those companies, however, having an amazingly technologically-advanced product, packed with incredible software, trumps all other concerns (Tesla's #1 loyalty numbers of all automakers). Break-neck innovation trumps all else for a technology company. The day Tesla is a perfect, clear communicator is the day that they're not changing and innovating significantly faster than all their competitors.

This is all moot, in any case, because Tesla communication is only this poor for early adopters crazy enough to put 5-40k down on a vehicle unseen for multiple years. Ye olde' average consumer will put a deposit down, get assigned a DS, and will have a Tesla in their driveway in under three months with no delays or unforseen issues.

 

[Julian Cox]

Since a moderator has visited Roamer to view his X and let his dogs check it out (and a test drive, I believe), I think it's safe to say he's not a sock puppet for a Seeking Alpha shill.

Let's show respect for fellow forum members. Please.

Look, these are people who've had skin in the game waiting on their vehicle. They've been advocates for the company. They're feeling disillusioned. While I don't share the same sentiments, I get it & they certainly have a right to express how they feel.

Woa - I specifically said that I don't know @Roamer - no conclusions jumped to whatsoever. Fact: Citing Bernie Maddoff is 100% typical for SA Sock Puppets, that does not mean that anyone that talks about Maddoff is one or that I believe one thing or an other - in fact I asked Lump if he was sure (which means I am not, not that I am sure of the opposite). English, people. So if he's got his flipping X then what is this Lump character on about? Does @Roamer wish to be cited as a cautionary tale? Did his line of boxes eventually fill up include Take Delivery and Drive? I guess so. No?

 

[bonnie]

Woa - I specifically said that I don't know @Roamer - no conclusions jumped to whatsoever. Fact: Citing Bernie Maddoff is 100% typical for SA Sock Puppets, that does not mean that anyone that talks about Maddoff is one or that I believe one thing or an other - in fact I asked Lump if he was sure (which means I am not, not that I am sure of the opposite). English, people. So if he's got his flipping X then what is this Lump character on about? Does @Roamer wish to be cited as a cautionary tale? Did his line of boxes eventually fill up include Take Delivery and Drive? I guess so. No?

C'mon, Julian. Own it. Your command of the English language is excellent & you are well aware that asking the question the way you did implies a relationship. You could have left out all the SA-references and just asked who Roamer was.

As explained upthread, Roamer ordered more than one Signature X. One has been delivered, one is problematic for him. He also has three Model S.

 

[Canuck]

Tesla needs to navigate their future wisely and probably the two most important tasks they have are: 1) make a killer car and keep improving it, and 2) steward your customers/fans well so that they sell your product for you. Some people think that #1 is enough and you don't need #2. But I think #2 is crucial as well.

Unfortunately, #1 is more than enough in our society. If you make a good product that no one can get elsewhere, you don't even need to steward customers/fans to sell it. In fact, you can do almost anything and people will still buy your product. For example, people will watch a documentary showing how Foxconn has to put up nets to stop its employees from committing suicide because they are treated worse than rats in a cage and they still go out and overpay for a smartphone.

Of course, individual customers will be lost along the way, but it's not fatal to a company, at least in my opinion.

I'm not making excuses for Tesla and I understand your position completely. I think, however, that Tesla will survive just fine and hopefully it will learn from these growing pains. There's no putting this cat back in the bag.

 

[Julian Cox]

C'mon, Julian. Own it. Your command of the English language is excellent & you are well aware that asking the question the way you did implies a relationship. You could have left out all the SA-references and just asked who Roamer was.

As explained upthread, Roamer ordered more than one Signature X. One has been delivered, one is problematic for him. He also has three Model S.

Rubbish madam. Own it youself:wink:.

You have accused me of jumping on someone I genuinely did not jump on. I asked a question for verification and explained exactly why I was asking it.

And JRP3 believe it or not I don't have endless time on my hands to research posting histories. Sometime on matters of small relevance I might simply ask someone else do do their own homework to back up their own claim.

So now it seems that we have a before picture of a before and after. Is the guy happy now or not?

 

[omarsultan]

Look, I don't think anyone would disagree there are "opportunities for improvement" with communications. But since this is the investor forum, its useful to bear in mind that the Model 3 is the goal line for the company's mission--everything up to this points has been (roaster, S, X, etc) has been laying groundwork.

Between now and Model 3 #00001 rolls out the door, Tesla will need to spend $X which includes finishing product development, certification, building a manufacturing line, finishing the GF, buying raw goods inventory and cutting POs to supply chain vendors for both the GF and the M3 production line). They have $Y in cash which is primarily the $1.2B in the bank, revenue from operations (i.e. selling Ses and Xes), selling ZEV credits and the ABL). Everything else (payroll, rent, superchargers, infra buildout like stores and service centers, and working capital to build Ses and Xes) needs to be covered by what is left over when you subtract $X from $Y.

If there is not enough cash to cover $X the company nothing good will happen. Yes, it leads to near-term unpleasantness, but I cannot fault the mgmt team's investment priorities.

 

[Andyw2100]

Wow. Over 4700 posts and you wouldn't even consider buying a tesla unless service center closer to you. I am impressed by your interest in the company

Andy already owns a Model S.

Did you miss how in his sig it says he bought a Tesla in 2014?

Thanks Bonnie and dhanson865 for pointing out that I do already own a Model S, and that my signature indicates that. You saved me from having to make some sarcastic comment that I would have had to self-edit to avoid moderation to "Snippiness." (I had several composed in my head, but thankfully, as is generally my practice, read through the end of the thread before posting!)

4700+ posts and he has a Tesla already. His post was about why he won't buy a second one unless the service center network is expanded. To me that is a valid point. I live hundreds of miles from a service center and would not want to drive that far to get a minor issue resolved, do routine maintenance, or heaven forbid have my car towed that far to have a more serious issue repaired.

I am in the same boat. I have been driving a Tesla for 5 years now. Both the Rangers and service centers have been great. But Tesla changed their policy and now rather than picking up my car and giving a loaner for $100 the cost was raised to $1000 with no loaner. For me 200 miles from the service center this does not work well. Remember it was Tesla who changed their service policy. I purchased my car when the the service came to you. That has now changed.

And just to elaborate on the above, yes, the fact that the nearest service center to me is over 200 miles away AND that Tesla has changed their service policy since I purchased my Model S is the reason that I won't purchase another Tesla until either there is a service center much closer to me or (something I didn't mention in the original post) until Tesla significantly changes their service policy again for the better, to one that I think would make sense for me.

When I purchased the Model S one of the very first questions I had as I began the research process was how would I get service. I was assured that the fact that I lived a great distance from any service center would be essentially a non-issue. The ranger service, with a max fee of $100, as well as the valet with loaner service were described. Policies on these have now changed. It's still not clear how my situation is going to be handled moving forward, but what is 100% clear is that if I purchased a new Tesla the current terms and policies would certainly be the ones that apply. If followed as written, these policies state that even if the car were delivered with obvious manufacturing defects, or if things went wrong under warranty immediately after delivery, it would be my responsibility to get the car to the service center over 200 miles away. The Model 3 could be better than the Model S and cost one third as much and I wouldn't buy one knowing how onerous the service and warranty issues would be if the current policies remain in effect and if the nearest service center to me remains over 200 miles away.

I'll put down a deposit because I am very pleased with most aspects of my Model S, and would like to be in line to have the option of purchasing a Model 3 when the time comes, in case Tesla has expanded the service network accordingly. Since the time-frame for delivery is almost certainly a minimum of two years away, and in all likelihood even longer than that away, a lot could happen in that time. I'm an optimist. So I'm happy to let Tesla hold $1000, just in case, and will hope for the best.

 

[bonnie]

Rubbish madam. Own it youself:wink:.


So now it seems that we have a before picture of a before and after. Is the guy happy now or not?

I overestimated your command of the language. Sincere apologies.

Roamer is still waiting on X#2, to the best of my knowledge. So no, I believe he is not. And he's level-headed enough that delivery of the second X won't wipe out his disappointment on how things were handled with him. Separate the vehicle from the process. That's the issue for many, I believe.

I dealt with it by mostly separating myself from the process. It was much more peaceful internally that way.

 

[Julian Cox]

I overestimated your command of the language. Sincere apologies.

Roamer is still waiting on X#2, to the best of my knowledge. So no, I believe he is not. And he's level-headed enough that delivery of the second X won't wipe out his disappointment on how things were handled with him. Separate the vehicle from the process. That's the issue for many, I believe.

I dealt with it by mostly separating myself from the process. It was much more peaceful internally that way.

OK, look. You are merely overestimating my ability to care about this. So some guy that is not here to speak for himself has had the good fortune to receive some Model S and one out of two Model X.

And he's disappointed.

OK, I think I got it. Please pass along my commiserations, it must be really really awful, the children must be in tears. If I get a moment between laughing out loud I'll cry him a river myself.

 

[JRP3]

Since the time-frame for delivery is almost certainly a minimum of two years away, and in all likelihood even longer than that away, a lot could happen in that time. I'm an optimist. So I'm happy to let Tesla hold $1000, just in case, and will hope for the best.

I'm of the same mindset since we live in the same area. If Tesla doesn't have a clear, rational, reasonable service solution appropriate for a $35K+ vehicle it would not be rational and reasonable for me to be a customer. That said, cases such as ours won't affect Tesla for many years to come.

 

[Julian Cox]

I think I have a solution to all of this.

If you happen to have a First World problem that is driving you nuts, find someone that has a real problem (not hard to do, apparently 1 in 5 children in the USA is living below the bread line) and commit an act of charity. Might also be worth noting that Elon Musk has given more and taken less than any Tesla customer by a truly phenomenal margin.

There.

 

[bonnie]

I think I have a solution to all of this.

If you happen to have a First World problem that is driving you nuts, find someone that has a real problem (not hard to do, apparently 1 in 5 children in the USA is living below the bread line) and commit an act of charity. Might also be worth noting that Elon Musk has given more and taken less than any Tesla customer by a truly phenomenal margin.

There.

If we do that, will you allow people to speak?

Many of us DO consistently give generously of our time and money. We just don't feel a need to blast it about the forum. Time and place for everything. (Not that Musk shouldn't do so - whenever he does anything, it brings tons of positive publicity to a project.)

 

[Zaxxon]

Bonnie continues to win the thread. Bravo. I award you one internet.

 

[hobbes]

Bonnie continues to win the thread. Bravo. I award you one internet.

Can´t give her any more reputation points, damn. If I was writing the replies she did, I couldn´t keep that calm, would go right to snippiness at least . Man, gotta leave this thread, really getting worked up.

 

[Canuck]

Bonnie continues to win the thread. Bravo. I award you one internet.

Agreed. Then again it's not hard when your opponent resorts to logically fallacious arguments such as relative privation.

 

[Zaxxon]

Man, don't get me started on the logical fallacies in this thread. Could buy at least a CPO Model S if I got a payout for every false dichotomy presented.

 

[bonnie]

So while I'm ridiculously pleased to have a spare internet at my disposal (thank you!), I think we'll all make better progress if we don't see this as a competition.

At the end of the day, every single person in this thread (as far as I can tell) wants the same two things: For Tesla to build amazing cars that change the world and to be wildly profitable.

The disagreements are over how to get there. We're not disagreeing on the end game.