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I understand Silicon Valley and I understand the startup culture very well. But it's different with Tesla because they took a significant deposit from Model S reservation holders. If Tesla didn't take a reservation, then they really wouldn't have much accountability as to delays. They could ship whenever they want and nobody could really say anything. But because they took deposits and they gave expectations/dates to those who gave deposits as to when to expect their cars. In this case, it's a matter of common decency to keep those customers updated and in the loop especially if there are unexpected delays.
bonnie
I play a nice person on twitter.
Bonnie, actually it's not something that personally happened that pushed me to make this post. If it was something personal, it really wouldn't be worth my time to post about it as I don't think something happening to one person like me is significant in the bigger long-term future of Tesla. Rather, my main reason for posting is because I see a lot of Model X reservation holders frustrated and losing their enthusiasm for Tesla that they once had, and this is largely due to Tesla's choice to keep them in the dark during the past few years while Tesla held their deposits. This is significant to me because Tesla is soon to take Model 3 deposits and I fear the same thing happening but this time affecting a lot more people. While some people think Tesla is unshakeable and has no chance to fail, I see it differently. Tesla needs to navigate their future wisely and probably the two most important tasks they have are: 1) make a killer car and keep improving it, and 2) steward your customers/fans well so that they sell your product for you. Some people think that #1 is enough and you don't need #2. But I think #2 is crucial as well. I know Tesla is a human-run company and has their share of mistakes. And there are a lot, but most of them I don't talk about because overall Tesla does a decent job of stewarding Model S owners with service, etc. However, I think Tesla has failed miserably with steward their relationship with Model X reservation holders and it's costing them the allegiance/enthusiasm of thousands of people. I'd hate for them to make the same mistake with Model 3 reservation holders and have it cost them the allegiance/enthusiasm of hundreds of thousands.
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I've already addressed this but it's not about me or my personal experience, as I'm talking about the experience of thousands of Model X reservation holders. Before rejecting what I have to say, I'd suggest talking with as many Model X reservation holders personally as you can and ask them to share how their reservation waiting experience has been. I think you'll be surprised to see how many have significantly been disappointed in Tesla and have less enthusiasm for the company.
Opting out was not specifically mentioned in proposals for future customers engagement in this thread, at least I failed to spot the mention of it.
I consider opting out critical feature of any communication, hence I brought it up.
This is the whole point of what I'm trying to say. And if Tesla doesn't correct this, it'll only be amplified w/Model 3 reservation holders. And the associated costs will have a significant impact on where Tesla is 10 years from now and how much of their mission statement they accomplish or not. That's why I'm taking my time to speak up.
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A constructive suggestion to Tesla... they ought to send a survey by email to all Model X reservation holders and get their feedback on how satisfied reservation holders have been with Tesla's communication to them. For a company who claims to be data-driven, it's only common sense to do something like this and then take action based on the survey results.
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I've never said "Elon doesn't care" and I'm not sure if anybody on this thread said that either. I do wonder if "Elon knows" how bad the communication has been with Model X reservation holders and how many are disappointed/frustrated/upset. My guess is that Tesla's head of Communications isn't telling Elon for whatever reason. I give Elon slack for not being in touch with everything going on. But I don't give slack to the head of communications for not knowing what's going on with how Model X reservation holders are doing.
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I've never heard Elon say that Tesla mishandled communication with Model X owners. He has said that he thinks they over-engineered features, which I do hope and expect them to learn from for Model 3. I just have not seen any indication that Tesla is acknowledging and/or will change how they communicate with reservation holders, especially when with the upcoming Model 3.
FlatSix911
Porsche 918 Hybrid
For those who did not take the time to read the 4Q15 Investor Letter ...
it provides a few additional reasons for the current Tesla management behavior to continue.
1. They dominate the large luxury vehicle market with over 25% market share.
2. They plan continued growth and forecast 80-90K new vehicle deliveries in 2016.
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No matter how simple it seems to put together an update weekly, it isn't. Coming up with topics when you're in the middle of just slogging through things is tough. Sharing info when a market is antsy is tough. Getting engineers to spend some time talking to you about progress is tough when they're on critical path and just don't have time to deal with you and a a video camera. Then Legal needs to look at it, because this is a public company after all. Published & now there are customers not satisfied with the content because they feel there should be more ...
I'd have to vote no on an idea like this. Sure, some updates would be nice. Committing to a schedule? No. Helllll no. No no no. First time it's missed people are freaking out. (And if anyone disagrees with that statement, then you're obviously new to this forum.) Never mind that the person who handles that is on vacation or had a family emergency. 'Cause c'mon, how hard could it be to throw some fresh meat at this cage of lions every couple of weeks?(Or a nice fruit basket, for the non-carnivores.)
The idea is nice. The unintended consequences just too much.
The point isn't that Tesla has to put out an update weekly. That was just an idea. The point is that Tesla ought to communicate more frequently and openly with Model 3 reservation holders than they did with Model X reservation holders. This can come in the form of monthly emails or blog posts or videos or whatever. Or it can be more frequent or less frequent. It depends on what Tesla wants to do with it. I'm just advocating for common decency and respect for future reservation holders which I haven't seen for Model X reservation holders.
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Krugerrand
Meow
Because it makes no sense to drive demand to a level beyond a reasonable length of time that that market segment is going to want to wait. You're about to find out in less than 6 weeks what demand is going to be like. You might want to sit down.
The best suggestion so far in this thread. Survey monkeys are standard practice that most businesses use on a regular basis.
My take on this is that most X reservation holders are frustrated due to, in the order of priority:
1. Delays in delivering the car
2. Not having clarity on delivery date and on the car features
3. Not fully understanding the reasons for delays and lack of clarity on projected delivery date
I find it unfair to pile it all on Ricardo. Delivery delays are out of his control. Clarity on delivery date is likely out of his control. The only thing in his control is to try to explain these foggy facts to already frustrated customers and to try to placate them. Perhaps he could do that better. Perhaps whatever explanations he tries to come up with, they are likely to be not good enough. Often a business needs someone who will effectively absorb all the angst, hence that is a tricky job.
My point is, I find it unfair to call publicly for Ricardo's head based on what we see on this forum and elsewhere. Maybe you are right, maybe not. My view is that public calling for anyone's head may be a bit over the top without having a thorough insight into their brief and their fulfillment of that brief. That fulfilment has some metrics attached to it. Outsiders judging people's job performance without seeing these metrics are inappropriate, to say the least.
I also doubt that Elon is not in touch and that he relies on others when it comes to informing himself.
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Andyw2100
Well-Known Member
We're about to find out how many people are willing to put down a refundable $1000 deposit to get a good spot in line for a car they may or may not want. I'm not sure how well that's going to translate into actual demand.
As an example, I'm almost certainly going to get a reservation. The difference to me between Tesla having my $1000 or me having it for a couple of years is pretty meaningless to me. But unless there's a service center a lot closer to me than there is now by the time I'm supposed to order my Model 3, I won't be ordering one.
My point is we'll get some idea of what the demand may be like in six weeks, but it will be a rough idea only.
Krugerrand
Meow
So all the hand-wringing and angst over the next group of buyers being far more price sensitive, not being early adopters and therefore not as patient or forgiving and so on is now thrown out the window because that doesn't suit your narrative? We're going to use you as an example of a typical Model 3 reservation holder? And we're going to ignore historical demand and reservation trends on previous vehicles, as well as pent up frustrations that so many can't afford an S or X (that are present all over the Internet) and pretend it's just talk for the sake of talk?
You've got to be joking. A rough idea only? Yeah, only in terms of where it begins, not where it ends. Rough as in Tesla guessing they should be able to sell 20,000 Model S a year. Definitely not rough as in a 100k reservations and only a handful serious.
Andyw2100
Well-Known Member
I never said I was an example of a typical Model 3 buyer. I was providing an example of someone who is going to be placing a deposit who may not be buying a Model 3.
Krugerrand
Meow
In another post I believe he said 'thousands'. I too think it's an exaggeration, on top of 'considering cancelling' isn't the same as 'actually cancelling'. If Tesla was seeing actual cancellations in the 1/3 to 1/2 range you can be darn sure they'd be bending over backwards to find out why and how to fix it...kind of in the same way they had to hustle to get people to confirm their Model S reservations back in the early days. I don't believe that's happening now with the Model X, but if someone has evidence of that feel free to share.
I never said I spoke to "thousands". Please quote my directly rather than giving vague reference. If it's in regard to me thinking that thousands will cancel, then are you saying you think only hundreds will cancel, thus making the cancellation rate less than 5%? I personally think Tesla will be lucky/fortunate if 75-80% of current reservation holders convert to actual buyers (which means "thousands" will cancel).
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Krugerrand
Meow
You specifically used yourself as an example to make your point because you wanted me and others to consider your point as valid and mainstream on the topic. That point being that there could be a large number of people who'll hand over 1k to get a good spot in line for a car they may or may not want. Hogwash. And it's hogwash particularly when it's been discussed at length how this new segment of buyers are different from the majority of Model S and X buyers - as in for one thing they are far more price sensitive, so 1k is actually going to mean something to them.
If you'd rather we can say that the people wanting, willing and able to buy Model 3 are identical to current Model S and X buyers, then we'll throw out all the talk of differences and you can have it your way about the 'rough idea'. But you can't have the cake and eat it too. It's one or the other.
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This is what you wrote: I've already addressed this but it's not about me or my personal experience, as I'm talking about the experience of thousands of Model X reservation holders.
If you haven't spoken to thousands, then how can you speak to the experience of thousands? There haven't been thousands of Model X reservationists talking here on the forum about their experiences or how they felt about their experiences.
I wrote that in response to someone claiming that I was making this post because I didn't get special extra treatment from Tesla for my side activities (i.e., my weekly newsletter, etc). I was responding to that saying that I'm posting this to address the treatment that Model X reservations holders have received in general, and not just me, hence I used the word "thousands" because that how many reservation holders there are.
thegruf
Active Member
I have waited for new vehicles before, having placed a sizeable deposit, and seen delays and changes in the ultimate offer.
Tesla are not unique in this scenario.
This for me most recently with the Jaguar F Type - a car I ultimately did not go ahead with.
There is one espcially important word in this thread - "experience".
And, dare I say it, this is precisely where Tesla have let prospective owners down.
People putting down deposits on a car they have no idea what the exact spec will be, or even what it will look like are by definition going to be amongst the most enthusiastic owners.
It takes little to keep such folk happy, a few gestures here and there, a limited edition collectable or two, dare I say it even a chance to meet some of the team ... which in turn enables depositors to meet others and further enhances the process. These owners more than any other want to belong to something that is special. So, Tesla, make it special.
Negligible costs financially, worth millions in free PR.
But then pr is not exactly Tesla's strongest suit.
And this must not become an excuse for yet more advertising BS either, sincere communication is what any and every owner is looking for.
Tesla are not unique in this scenario.
This for me most recently with the Jaguar F Type - a car I ultimately did not go ahead with.
There is one espcially important word in this thread - "experience".
And, dare I say it, this is precisely where Tesla have let prospective owners down.
People putting down deposits on a car they have no idea what the exact spec will be, or even what it will look like are by definition going to be amongst the most enthusiastic owners.
It takes little to keep such folk happy, a few gestures here and there, a limited edition collectable or two, dare I say it even a chance to meet some of the team ... which in turn enables depositors to meet others and further enhances the process. These owners more than any other want to belong to something that is special. So, Tesla, make it special.
Negligible costs financially, worth millions in free PR.
But then pr is not exactly Tesla's strongest suit.
And this must not become an excuse for yet more advertising BS either, sincere communication is what any and every owner is looking for.
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