How to improve Model 3 braking feel?

[zhu-]

What can I do to improve the initial bite of my brakes and reduce the mushy feeling? In my previous cars, the weight of my foot on the brakes would be as strong as regen in warm weather and stopping was mostly effortless. In the model 3, the brakes are quite the opposite and not at all confidence inspiring. Regen is great most of the time, but with freezing temperatures or during spirited driving, I need some better braking.

Would new pads make enough of a difference or would I need to get a whole MPP brake upgrade? Their stainless steel brake lines also claim to improve this but I haven't seen any reviews. Would be great to hear some experiences from those who have upgraded brakes.

 

[Knightshade]

Do you want better "feel" or do you want actual better stopping

Because you solve the first one with brake parts, and you solve the second one with tires. 2 very different solutions to 2 very different problems.

 

[ewoodrick]

I thought that the brakes were fly by wire. So you aren't connected to the brake system.
And like Knightshade indicated, more braking will tend to make the tires slip.

Go check out the entire Consumer Reports - Elon braking story from last year.

 

[TeeEmCee]

What can I do to improve the initial bite of my brakes and reduce the mushy feeling? In my previous cars, the weight of my foot on the brakes would be as strong as regen in warm weather and stopping was mostly effortless. In the model 3, the brakes are quite the opposite and not at all confidence inspiring. Regen is great most of the time, but with freezing temperatures or during spirited driving, I need some better braking.

Would new pads make enough of a difference or would I need to get a whole MPP brake upgrade? Their stainless steel brake lines also claim to improve this but I haven't seen any reviews. Would be great to hear some experiences from those who have upgraded brakes.

Long thread on this from 2-3 months ago in the driving dynamics subforum.

Get some better pads, that should be enough. Bigger rotors help only with heat dissipation, not something relevant for this use case. Steel lines will make the engagement more immediate but they won’t change the pad characteristics (i.e. wont change the low mu at low pressure). Make those your last upgrade, if you really must have them.

I think Tesla chose a pad formulation that gives less initial bite, with the expectation that together with the deceleration from high regen it would provide a “normal” level of braking without being too “touchy”. I’d say they have largely accomplished that, but the initial engagement is still sub-par.

I have exactly the same perception as you with respect to the brakes and, should I ever manage to keep the effin’ car out of the shop for more than a few days at a time, I will try out some new pads as well.

 

[ezevphl]

I think there should be an option to have a braking feel that adjusts in cold weather to not feel so different from regen. I get it, I can get used to it. But for an occasional driver it can be a significant safety issue.

 

[zhu-]

Do you want better "feel" or do you want actual better stopping

Because you solve the first one with brake parts, and you solve the second one with tires. 2 very different solutions to 2 very different problems.

I recall from another thread that the Model 3 brakes are strong enough to overpower the MXM4 tires which I plan on replacing with Michelin AS3+ (from your recommendation IIRC). I'm primarily looking for more bite and feel. Basically more braking power from less brake pedal travel. I know in emergency situations the tires are the limiting factor but those I plan on replacing soon - just still deciding if I want to keep the 18" or get a set of 19's with it.

 

[Big Earl]

I thought that the brakes were fly by wire. So you aren't connected to the brake system.
And like Knightshade indicated, more braking will tend to make the tires slip.

Go check out the entire Consumer Reports - Elon braking story from last year.

The braking system is a Bosch iBooster generation 2.

More information: iBooster

The brake pedal is a mechanical connection, just like most conventional cars. The system can also be controlled electronically by the computer for full braking capability in cruise control, automatic emergency braking and full self driving.

 

[Knightshade]

I recall from another thread that the Model 3 brakes are strong enough to overpower the MXM4 tires which I plan on replacing with Michelin AS3+ (from your recommendation IIRC).

AFAIK every OEM braking system on a new car going back at least a decade or two can overwhelm any street tire (even the highest performance Michelin ones)- that's why better tires is the only thing that actually helps you stop shorter and why "better brakes" can't.

I
I'm primarily looking for more bite and feel. Basically more braking power from less brake pedal travel.

Ah, now that brake upgrades can do... Pads are the easiest/cheapest way to make this happen so I'd definitely give that a shot before investing in a BBK just for feel- if that gets you the feel you want, great, done, and for cheap.... if not you can go down the much pricier rabbit hole with MPP or someone like that.

 

[wenkan]

The braking system is a Bosch iBooster generation 2.

More information: iBooster

The brake pedal is a mechanical connection, just like most conventional cars. The system can also be controlled electronically by the computer for full braking capability in cruise control, automatic emergency braking and full self driving.

If I change the brake lines to steel or using more aggressive brake pads, would it influence my autopilot experience? Dose the controller using a closed loop feedback to incrementally adjust the braking force, or just apply the pre-configured braking input according to the OEM data?

 

[zhu-]

Thanks for the feedback guys, will definitely try out a new set of pads first. Would replacing the rear pads also make a noticeable difference or would the front be enough?

If I change the brake lines to steel or using more aggressive brake pads, would it influence my autopilot experience? Dose the controller using a closed loop feedback to incrementally adjust the braking force, or just apply the pre-configured braking input according to the OEM data?

I'm also wondering the same. I guess it should learn and adapt since the P3D+ has upgraded brakes.

 

[al503]

Thanks for the feedback guys, will definitely try out a new set of pads first. Would replacing the rear pads also make a noticeable difference or would the front be enough?

It's always ideal to change all pads, although the fronts will do the vast majority of the braking. Also, different pads can warm up/start biting at different rates. If there is a big delta, ABS should be able to deal with it on an emergency stop but again, not ideal.

 

[animorph]

I wonder if Tesla is having a problem flushing the brake lines during assembly? Air in the system, or old crappy fluid, can certainly cause a mushy brake. That might be something Tesla would fix at the SvC if you could demo it to their satisfaction.

Our Model 3 brakes seem perfect to me.

I would think more bite would be had with softer, lower operating temperature brake pads. Given the early track use reports, it seems like we already have that in the stock pads. But one of the performance stores might have some good ideas. Getting the brakes bedded in properly might help as well, though I've never had a big problem with that. Certainly noticeable with new brakes however.

I've had steel brake lines installed in another car, without a really noticeable change in feel. I don't think that would be worth it.

 

[ALSETJC]

Driving my previous car the Honda Clarity it did brakes better. Your brake pedal would also control regen beyond the regular regen you get by lifting off the accelerator. It would seamlessly combine the regen and mechanical brakes. It was really impressive. I don't think new brakes will do much for feel, it's the way the Tesla brake pedal is engineered. The Tesla one is good too because you can feather the brake pedal to ride the regen.

 

[kbecks13]

What can I do to improve the initial bite of my brakes and reduce the mushy feeling?

New pads and stainless lines, hit up Unplugged they will take care of you.

Do you want better "feel" or do you want actual better stopping

Lol dude you're renowned for being the "brakes dont stop the car, tires do!" guy, it's great But you're totally right!

If I change the brake lines to steel or using more aggressive brake pads, would it influence my autopilot experience? Dose the controller using a closed loop feedback to incrementally adjust the braking force, or just apply the pre-configured braking input according to the OEM data?

Nope, you'll be fine. I have track pads, racing fluid and stainless lines and it's all good.

Check out my post here for more info: New Brake Pads on P3D - Much Firmer!

 

[kbecks13]

I would think more bite would be had with softer, lower operating temperature brake pads. Given the early track use reports, it seems like we already have that in the stock pads. But one of the performance stores might have some good ideas. Getting the brakes bedded in properly might help as well, though I've never had a big problem with that. Certainly noticeable with new brakes however.

Nah stock brakes have terrible initial bite, get aftermarket ones and be amazed!

 

[EVDRVN]

I had a panic stop the other day and it felt like I had no brake power and the pedal was too far down, I turned into the other lane at the last second for fear of not stopping, I have never had that issue on my S even in the rain and this was a dry good road. Now the brakes on my 3 seem a bit concerning. I plan to test them in a safe environment sometime. 19" upgraded wheel package.

 

[Feathermerchan]

EVDRVN - First bleed your brakes to make sure there is no air in the system and that the brake fluid is fresh. It's the cheapest and easiest thing to do. Then safely try an emergency stop and see if it feels different. If not, then proceed to more costly and time consuming efforts.

One data point here. I replaced the brakes on my 2005 Dodge Magnum RT with Wilwood discs and calipers. I discovered that when cold and wet, the performance brake pads sucked mightily on first application. Once warmed up, they were fine. So do your research carefully because pads will certainly change the personality of your car.

 

[kbecks13]

Also bed your rotors in if you haven't already! That gave me much more initial bite after doing so with aftermarket pads.

 

[zhu-]

Also bed your rotors in if you haven't already! That gave me much more initial bite after doing so with aftermarket pads.

Would that help with OEM brakes? My car is still quite new with just 1400 miles.

 

[kbecks13]

Would that help with OEM brakes? My car is still quite new with just 1400 miles.

Yes it helps with pretty much all brake pads/rotors. You are basically depositing a thin film of the brake pad material onto the rotor which increases the coefficient of friction between pad and rotor.

Try getting up to 30-40 MPH and then braking semi-hard (70 to 80% of full brake pressure) down to 5 MPH. Repeat this like 8-10 times in rapid succession (keep the brakes hot) and you should smell your pads if you are doing it right. Once they are hot and you smell the pads (expect a little brake fade/reduced stopping power near the end, that's OK) drive around for 20-30 minutes without stopping to let the brakes cool.

Once they've cooled, report back on how they feel!