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Garlan Garner
Banned
Garlan Garner
Banned
I don't know what you guys think but, from the comments in the forum you would think that the results of the vote would have been overwhelmingly in favor of pay-per-use.
deonb
Active Member
Ahh...
But here comes the crux - the predominant argument in favor of pay-per-use is not because people want it for themselves... It's because they want other people to do pay-per-use so that it would stop "Supercharger abuse".
So a correct poll that would reflect the true state of the forum would be something like: "Assuming you're excluded by the policy, how do you want other people to pay for Supercharging".
You know... kind'a like the way Congress passes bills.
AZ Desert Driver
Rare combination
Educate me - I'm reading along over 5 pages of posts, and then somehow another thread is involved. Do I switch to a new thread, are those other posts included in my first 5 pages - how do I follow the thought train when posts are merged? Not complaining- just don't understand how it works.
In addition to the options listed, I could imagine monthly or yearly options as well. That would allow those who don't want to, or can't afford to pay the up front $2-3k to spread it out over time and then adjust their plan based upon actual usage. Maybe the first year you pay for a full year ($500?), then realize you only charged on average 2 times per month and could have saved with an ala carte plan. Likewise, there should be an option to upgrade to lifetime if you find that works better (move from a home to an apartment or something)
AZ Desert Driver
Rare combination
I like this ala carte plan. Have your car price buy into the system (pay its prorata share of the SC infrastructure) , have package prices to use the system according to (your) need, updatable based on changing needs.
MSullivan
Member
They could start installing Model 3 designated chargers with credit card readers. Sell the electricity for cost plus say 20% to pay for the install. But that is expensive with no guarantee they will be used.
I just want to comment that I appreciate the OP included a poll. It shows that there is customer demand for a pay as you go option. My mom, for example, nearly never does any highway driving, but there are instances in which someone else might want to take her future Tesla and use a Supercharger. In this case, it would be far easier to pay for one-time use.
As Tesla moves into lower price segments, I think segmentation will become more important. $2.5k might only be a small percentage for someone buying a $70k base price Model S, but as a percentage, it doubles if you buy the base price Model 3. It becomes a bigger impact and so we can't just say, "Yeah, it works on average, so that's good enough," unless you want to forgo those some sales.
As Tesla moves into lower price segments, I think segmentation will become more important. $2.5k might only be a small percentage for someone buying a $70k base price Model S, but as a percentage, it doubles if you buy the base price Model 3. It becomes a bigger impact and so we can't just say, "Yeah, it works on average, so that's good enough," unless you want to forgo those some sales.
Chopr147
Active Member
Personally I would charge at home.......just like my cell phone 
But, I would like pay-per so I at least have access to the SC network when needed on longer trips. I can see using it once a month which is about average for my upstate trips.
But, I would like pay-per so I at least have access to the SC network when needed on longer trips. I can see using it once a month which is about average for my upstate trips.
cpa
Active Member
Our scenario for our expected Model 3:
We currently have a Model S. We will be buying a Model 3 for my wife. She is retired, and all her driving is local for running errands and the like, so she will at most drive 150 miles per week; most weeks less. Clearly there is no need for us to purchase the option for unlimited Supercharging, not to mention the largest battery that will be available. Yet there will be those rare occasions when she wants to be able to visit her sister at the coast or take an extended day trip where she will definitely need Supercharger access. We would gladly pay a fee to be able to have limited availability for those times.
I am certain that there are dozens of other lifestyles that would be similar to ours.
I know zip, zilch, nada about programming and ordering products via credit card. I would have to assume that Tesla could have a Supercharging package for Model 3 owners on their website that is linked to each owner's web page that would contain all the secure information necessary to complete the transaction with confirmation receipt. Tesla would offer 3-4 periods of active use that we could buy, perhaps ranging from 7 to 60 days. The confirmation receipt would be the reference number in case there were a glitch in the system.
In the alternative, the Tesla application on our phones could be expanded to offer single-use Supercharging sessions for emergencies or (like in our case) those four times per year when my wife would want to avail herself of Supercharging.
Yes, we would always have the problems of forgetting to update our credit card information, but that applies today for all online entities from which we purchase goods and services.
I really do not think that this "solution" would be a cumbersome burden upon Tesla, as it would be automated. I would submit that something of this nature would satisfy the vast majority of people who opt out of the Supercharging package (whatever it winds up being.)
We currently have a Model S. We will be buying a Model 3 for my wife. She is retired, and all her driving is local for running errands and the like, so she will at most drive 150 miles per week; most weeks less. Clearly there is no need for us to purchase the option for unlimited Supercharging, not to mention the largest battery that will be available. Yet there will be those rare occasions when she wants to be able to visit her sister at the coast or take an extended day trip where she will definitely need Supercharger access. We would gladly pay a fee to be able to have limited availability for those times.
I am certain that there are dozens of other lifestyles that would be similar to ours.
I know zip, zilch, nada about programming and ordering products via credit card. I would have to assume that Tesla could have a Supercharging package for Model 3 owners on their website that is linked to each owner's web page that would contain all the secure information necessary to complete the transaction with confirmation receipt. Tesla would offer 3-4 periods of active use that we could buy, perhaps ranging from 7 to 60 days. The confirmation receipt would be the reference number in case there were a glitch in the system.
In the alternative, the Tesla application on our phones could be expanded to offer single-use Supercharging sessions for emergencies or (like in our case) those four times per year when my wife would want to avail herself of Supercharging.
Yes, we would always have the problems of forgetting to update our credit card information, but that applies today for all online entities from which we purchase goods and services.
I really do not think that this "solution" would be a cumbersome burden upon Tesla, as it would be automated. I would submit that something of this nature would satisfy the vast majority of people who opt out of the Supercharging package (whatever it winds up being.)
Whether my ideal concept might work or not I do not know, but the OP did not constrain the ideas, so:
I'd like to see three tiers:
1. "free for life" transferrable: I'd probably price that at US$3,000 or so, depending on market and other factors;
2. "5 years/50,000 mi" or exact matching original warranty period both with mileage limit;
3. For vehicles in commercial use special plans depending on the type of use, normally involving installation of DC Fast or some type or HPWC with limited Supercharging access as specific to the deal.
My reasoning for option 3 is that with the advent to Model 3 there probably will be a large volumes of various types of commercial applications, some of which will be completely local, some of which will not. The current Supercharger authorization uses no non-vehicle authentication, but the capacity for custom schema exists, as does the ability to do that while requiring no charge on the part of the driver, or even driver entering an on-screen code or something else. Like it or not a "lifetime pay per use" model cannot be sustainable. We all know that.
The Tesla trick is have multiple options without having too much complexity. Whether elegantly simple or not, CHARiN What is the CCS?: Charging Interface Initiative e. V. (CharIN e. V.) of which Tesla is a member, is based on the premise that many different payment models can coexist on the same interface while allowing zero added complexity for charging.As tesla was open about at the beginning Superchargers came to be because no other consistent options were happening, but Tesla never intending to make this free.
I did not respond to the questions because neither represented realistic choices IMHO.
I'd like to see three tiers:
1. "free for life" transferrable: I'd probably price that at US$3,000 or so, depending on market and other factors;
2. "5 years/50,000 mi" or exact matching original warranty period both with mileage limit;
3. For vehicles in commercial use special plans depending on the type of use, normally involving installation of DC Fast or some type or HPWC with limited Supercharging access as specific to the deal.
My reasoning for option 3 is that with the advent to Model 3 there probably will be a large volumes of various types of commercial applications, some of which will be completely local, some of which will not. The current Supercharger authorization uses no non-vehicle authentication, but the capacity for custom schema exists, as does the ability to do that while requiring no charge on the part of the driver, or even driver entering an on-screen code or something else. Like it or not a "lifetime pay per use" model cannot be sustainable. We all know that.
The Tesla trick is have multiple options without having too much complexity. Whether elegantly simple or not, CHARiN What is the CCS?: Charging Interface Initiative e. V. (CharIN e. V.) of which Tesla is a member, is based on the premise that many different payment models can coexist on the same interface while allowing zero added complexity for charging.As tesla was open about at the beginning Superchargers came to be because no other consistent options were happening, but Tesla never intending to make this free.
I did not respond to the questions because neither represented realistic choices IMHO.
It's difficult, which is why I dislike having to merge threads/move posts, and why I often include an apology for the mishmash. However, I have to weigh the lesser of two evils, and having participants discuss a single topic in a single thread is better than having them bounce around between two or three.
The havoc that's caused by a merge is annoying, but temporary. Once the participants begin to respond in the new thread, it becomes cohesive relatively quickly. If I leave multiple threads, they'll rarely converge because there's always something to reply to. In the case of less contentious threads, they may self-resolve and I'll wait.
In this case, I posted in the other thread and asked for posts to be directed here so that I didn't have to do a move. Sometimes we can't help ourselves from responding, though, and the thread just kept growing. So I felt it was best to move posts. I would have merged the thread early on, but it included a poll, which makes things complicated.
None of us like the confusion from a merge, and the mods do their best to merge early and use their best judgement. I apologize for the confusion, but I do still think it was the best choice.
AZ Desert Driver
Rare combination
I'm NOT complaining - just don't understand how to follow. If I'm in thread A and you insert thread B, do I just keep scrolling in A and B shows up? Or do I have to look for B that contains my A?
I think I would prefer it to be pay per use as more a deterrent for local abuse. Local abuse isn't really a problem right now except for one or two locations, but I could see it being more of a problem once the Model 3 comes out. Tesla already receives charging data from the fleet of cars, so it wouldn't be hard to bill owners directly without annoying payment systems at the actual superchargers.
Our S came with unlimited charging (built into the price) but we've only used one once as a test. It's nice to know that it's there if we need it though.
Our S came with unlimited charging (built into the price) but we've only used one once as a test. It's nice to know that it's there if we need it though.
Ah, I see. Well, I made the mistake of responding in the wrong thread, which emphasizes the confusion with parallel threads!
If I merge threads, Thread A will disappear and your posts will be in Thread B. If you monitor your threads with the "Watched Threads" link (you should), then you will have become a watcher of this new thread. If I move posts, as I did in this case due to wanting to retain @nwdiver's poll, then you will also gain a "watch" on the new thread if your posts were moved to it. I also included a link in my note about where I moved the posts, so you can follow there.
Hope this helps.
MissAutobahn
Elon, please ramp up Semi production!
I will prefer paying my flatrate on top of the price of my M3.
Even if I would pay in that case more for my flatrate as i consume over Suc in reality:
just the fact, that I have this freedom of charging whenever/wherever i want, gives me a feeling of luxury.
A luxury that I am willing to pay for.
For me, it belongs also to "driving Tesla".
Even if I would pay in that case more for my flatrate as i consume over Suc in reality:
just the fact, that I have this freedom of charging whenever/wherever i want, gives me a feeling of luxury.
A luxury that I am willing to pay for.
For me, it belongs also to "driving Tesla".
If people pay are required to pay $2k for unlimited charging then local abuse is going to be a huge problem.
I would prefer the pay per per use or pay per time period (turn SC access on for a week, month, etc) for when I may drive longer distances (maybe twice a year).
However, if people have to pay a substantial lifetime fee for SC access that they may only use 20 times for the life of the car, then they are definitely going to charge up at local SC chargers. Its human nature to consume more to get your moneys worth. Just look at the all you can eat buffets...
This is already an issue with people who can afford a $100k car. When you add people that are more monetarily constrained, you can bet that local abuse will go way, way up.
I would prefer the pay per per use or pay per time period (turn SC access on for a week, month, etc) for when I may drive longer distances (maybe twice a year).
However, if people have to pay a substantial lifetime fee for SC access that they may only use 20 times for the life of the car, then they are definitely going to charge up at local SC chargers. Its human nature to consume more to get your moneys worth. Just look at the all you can eat buffets...
This is already an issue with people who can afford a $100k car. When you add people that are more monetarily constrained, you can bet that local abuse will go way, way up.
AZ Desert Driver
Rare combination
ahhh - I just looked at my "watched threads" - did no know I was collecting them. This answered my Q perfectly. Thanks
FWIW, my TMC bookmark on my browser is the link to my Watched Threads. It's the best place to catch up, in my opinion.
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