Hydrogen powered cars

[stopcrazypp]

I haven't seen the number before but looks like Toyota's Hydrogen Powered Lexus will be around $50'000.

http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2013-...s-like-success-with-2015-fuel-cell-model.html

It will be “price competitive” with Tesla’s $69,900 Model S, he said, and go about 300 miles (483 kilometers) per fueling.

This is the first time I have heard there used to be a plan for this to be a Lexus (article says no there's no brand commitment). Most of the reporting peg it as being a $50k hydrogen Prius (like the FCV-R concept).

 

[deonb]

This is the first time I have heard there used to be a plan for this to be a Lexus (article says no there's no brand commitment). Most of the reporting peg it as being a $50k hydrogen Prius (like the FCV-R concept).

I would hope that Toyota would be more sensible than trying to bring out a $50'000 Prius that will cost an additional $20'000 in fuel over its lifetime and call it competitive with a Model S...

 

[renim]

FX Clarity

http://www.honda.co.jp/FCX/
check out when the web site was last updated,

Bob Lutz was right, barring a miracle in Japan etc, H2 Fuel Cells will never be competitive between PHEV and BEV

 

[stopcrazypp]

I would hope that Toyota would be more sensible than trying to bring out a $50'000 Prius that will cost an additional $20'000 in fuel over its lifetime and call it competitive with a Model S...

I'm going to guess it'll be a compliance car similar to the RAV4 EV (and priced similarly). Maybe it'll be spiffed up a bit like the Clarity (which is like a slightly nicer Accord), but then that may force them to raise the price $10k or a bit more.

 

[richkae]

I'm going to bet 5 bucks right now that it:
a) is gutless
b) has significantly less cargo space than the Model S.
c) cant leave home every day with a full tank

So price competitive or not - no thanks.

 

[SwedishAdvocate]

What happens when Hollywood stars Diane Kruger and Joshua Jackson are trying to survive in the desert only by the water produced by their F-CELL car?

Driving the fuel cell technology on a daily basis in Hollywood, the film stars Diane Kruger and Joshua Jackson have become enthusiastic about the potential that the fuel cell technology offers. [Because someone paid them to (?), and because they don’t know that a battery electric vehicle is better for the environment (?)] The film explains the advantages of the F-CELL technology on a trip in California's Death Valley, one of the hottest and driest places on earth.

B-Class F-CELL: CO2 emission (combined): 0g/km; Fuel consumption 0.97 kg H2/100 km; Efficiency class: A+.*

*The data do not relate to a specific vehicle and are not part of the specification, but are merely for the purpose of comparing different vehicle types. The figures are provided in accordance with the German regulation "PKW EnVKV" and apply to the German market only.

Hollywood stars drink hydrogen B-Class F-Cell emission water in Death Valley [UPDATE] | autobloggreen

 

[Lloyd]

Hyundai, is meeting its CARB compliance this year with the introduction of a Hydrogen powered car on the three year lease. Everything is included in the lease.

https://www.hyundaiusa.com/tucsonfuelcell/

 

[BlueTan85]

More hydrogen FUD: A Shift In Government Policy Could Mean Trouble For Tesla - Yahoo Finance

 

[TEG]

Some links related to this thread:

Hydrogen Cars: Fad or the Future?

Are hydrogen-powered cars the future? Academics and advocates say yes | Video | NJTV News

After Decades Of Promises, Are Hydrogen Cars Really Any Closer? | Gas 2

https://business.financialpost.com/...on-hydrogen-fuel-cell-vehicles-for-its-future

Will the vehicles of the future be powered by electricity or hydrogen?

Fair to say the Model 3 killed Hydrogen!

Toyota and Hydrogen

Hydrogen-fueled cars could become a common sight on the roads of the future

Mercedes G-Code Hybrid Hydrogen / Electric SUV

Negative report on California hydrogen fueling infrastructure from auto industry expert

Hydrogen Fuel Station Problems

Chasing Unicorns: The Last Exhale of Hydrogen Fuel Cell Vehicles

 

[TEG]

Hydrogen fueling is slower than Tesla EV supercharger

Hydrogen Fuel Cell Questions and answers by Car Manufacturers

Yahoo article bashes BEVs in favor of hydrogen fuel cells

Why Hydrogen Fuel Cell Cars can't compete with pure EVs

The Fossil-fuel Industry's Campaign to Mislead the American People

 

[TEG]

Random "rebuttals":

 

[TEG]

 

[ewoodrick]

While I'm not necessarily a fan of hydrogen, I do think that it rather humorous listening to the arguments here. Just about every response here is a verbatim the same as used with EVs.

Hydrogen definitely has some nice advantages, quick to fill, no emissions. It's even derived from the same sources that EVs get their energy, electricity.

But it's even more fun when you look at gas taking over the role from EVs 100 years ago, and now EVs taking over from gas. In the early 1900, electricity wasn't widespread, but it was much more available than gas. Today, electricity is everywhere, but high-speed isn't as easy to get. Hydrogen isn't hardly even at a limited deployment yet, but could get there.

The big thing is that both EVs and Hydrogen share a lot of the same technology, since Hydrogen vehicles are really EVs with a slightly different storage mechanism.

 

[JRP3]

Just about every response here is a verbatim the same as used with EVs.

Not really, there are important differences.

Hydrogen definitely has some nice advantages, quick to fill,

Not so quick in the real world, especially with no infrastructure, which, unlike electricity, will take a lot more than just tapping into the existing electrical grid.

no emissions. It's even derived from the same sources that EVs get their energy, electricity.

It's mostly derived from steam reforming of natural gas.

since Hydrogen vehicles are really EVs with a slightly different storage mechanism.

A highly inefficient storage mechanism and a much more complex technology since they are a combination of EV and fuel cell.
A much more complete thread discussing all of this
Hydrogen vs. Battery

 

[S'toon]

On February 6th of 2003, George W Bush gave a speech in which he touted the benefits of a hydrogen economy. Far from being farsighted or progressive, it may well have been one of the worst examples of greenwashing in our lifetime. The gist of the speech was that we should avoid raising fuel economy standards and deploying clean technologies such as electric cars and renewable energy and instead pursue a transition from fossil fuels to a hydrogen economy.

What was unstated, was that hydrogen was (and is to this day) manufactured using fossil fuels, and that building infrastructure for a hydrogen economy would literally take decades and cost trillions of dollars. In effect, what was really being implied was, let’s not do anything that would diminish the profits of the fossil fuel companies in the short or medium term (as CAFE standards or deployment of renewable energy might) and let’s get behind something that would not truly be possible or practical in our lifetime (or any other lifetime).

Fast forward to Japan in 2014. In June of that year, the government of Japan officially announced a policy of converting the nation to a hydrogen economy, calling it a Strategic Road Map for Hydrogen and Fuel Cells.

While George Bush’s 2003 pronouncement could be looked upon as a distraction, or in fact a deflection in an effort to protect fossil fuel interests from a more immediate threat of public policy diminishing profits and market share, Japan’s public policy put into effect in 2014 has thus far had deeper and more severe repercussions that are still resounding today and may well continue to impact the country negatively for years to come.

Lost in all of the optimism and the panacea of a new hydrogen age is the cold fact that hydrogen in not something that exists in nature, and to this day is created using natural gas. In fact, the separation of hydrogen (the so-called reforming of natural gas) requires combustion. This immediately refutes the very notion that hydrogen is a clean energy source — in addition to being a secondary energy source, it also requires the burning of fossil fuel for its very creation. The end result of a hydrogen economy would be the use of large amounts of energy and the release of carbon dioxide.

<snip>

Full article at:
The Hydrogen Fuel Cell Scam — From George W. Bush & "The Big 3" To Toyota, Honda, & Japan | CleanTechnica

 

[CaryCBroome]

I think Hydrogen Vehicles is already the future. They do not emit carbon dioxide like gas vehicles. Alstom even launched Hydrogen Fuel Cell Train which will be available for commercial services by 2020.

 

[JRP3]

No.

 

[Merrill]

Hydrogen makes no sense to me when you have clean solar which is cheap compared to a hydrogen fuel station at $2m. Cost is about the same as gasoline, it is great it is clean but so is Nuclear but cost prohibitive.

 

[Electroman]

It takes a energy/electricity to extract and compress H2 into a fuel tank, you might as well just store that electricity directly in your car battery and drive the car. This multi step process of using energy in one form (electricity) to store energy in another form (compress H2) and then convert it back to the original form (electricity) - is plain STUPID.

 

[Brando]

Hydrogen makes no sense to me when you have clean solar which is cheap compared to a hydrogen fuel station at $2m. Cost is about the same as gasoline, it is great it is clean but so is Nuclear but cost prohibitive.

try about 4x the price of petrol