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I can confirm AEB does work

Paddy3101

Member
Mar 20, 2019
261
389
San Diego, US
Was on the brakes anyway, but car though it should be stopping quicker, which was fine.

Was on a significant up-hill, on-ramp, so was braking later than usual and would have stopped easily without assistance. Probably a little conservative in this instance due to the hill, but happy it was there.
 
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Vines

Active Member
Jul 20, 2018
1,851
2,131
Silicon Valley, CA
AEB actually scares the crap out of me now, after a very close near miss rear end accident. I am considering turning it off, as its more safe deactivated.

Car in front of me stops, I see it but am not applying the brakes as soon as the tesla wants me to. Jeeves activates AEB, and I come to a screeching stop at least 15-20 feet from the next car. Despite having plenty of room for a more gentle stop it used full lock.

The problem was that as I saw it happening I tried to tap the gas to move forward and give the next car some room to stop. The accelerator pedal was deactivated for a couple seconds and I was totally exposed!!! The car wouldn't budge forward.

Luckily the car behind me was paying attention, but they stopped less than 2' from my rear bumper. All I needed was to roll forward a few feet, or if the car behind me didn't stop, I could have veered into the emergency lane. All that was impossible because my car would not accelerate for at least a second after AEB.

I really don't like my car not responding to my controls because it thinks its smarter than me.
 

Paddy3101

Member
Mar 20, 2019
261
389
San Diego, US
AEB actually scares the crap out of me now, after a very close near miss rear end accident. I am considering turning it off, as its more safe deactivated.

Car in front of me stops, I see it but am not applying the brakes as soon as the tesla wants me to. Jeeves activates AEB, and I come to a screeching stop at least 15-20 feet from the next car. Despite having plenty of room for a more gentle stop it used full lock.

The problem was that as I saw it happening I tried to tap the gas to move forward and give the next car some room to stop. The accelerator pedal was deactivated for a couple seconds and I was totally exposed!!! The car wouldn't budge forward.

Luckily the car behind me was paying attention, but they stopped less than 2' from my rear bumper. All I needed was to roll forward a few feet, or if the car behind me didn't stop, I could have veered into the emergency lane. All that was impossible because my car would not accelerate for at least a second after AEB.

I really don't like my car not responding to my controls because it thinks its smarter than me.

I'd rather the car be slightly conservative than not. Difficult balancing act though.

For us with the P3D+, it WILL stop significantly quicker than a standard for example, with the better tires. So the 15 feet in your car, may have been 10feet in a standard.

It also doesn't know the surface/braking quality of the road, till it does brake, and quite probably not whether the road is flat or not. So those 10feet could well be needed if it was going downhill slightly.

I guess, not moving after an AEB stop, is the car being prepared for being possible rear-ended. The car's taken control, so it hands back control in a controlled manner?

And, personally, I'd much rather be re-ended after I stop, than rear-end someone else, if there is a choice.
 

wenkan

Member
Dec 31, 2018
573
527
Seattle
It seems that AEB doesn't consider the slope of road. So it may be oversensitive when you are approaching the car in front uphill.
 

Vines

Active Member
Jul 20, 2018
1,851
2,131
Silicon Valley, CA
I just want human controls to override the car choices. This seems reasonable.

I used to have a recurring nightmare about the car taking control thinking it was saving me from an accident, when in fact its nearly causing one. Now that nightmare has something real to worry about. Teslas will not give you control of your car in an AEB situation. This is 1000% dangerous.

I have no concerns about that AEB otherwise. Why the F#$% would it not allow me to escape the dangerous impending rear end accident by moving forward with a gentle push of the accelerator?
 

Knightshade

Well-Known Member
Jul 31, 2017
11,437
15,106
NC
I just want human controls to override the car choices. This seems reasonable.

It's also how it already works. (bold added)


Model 3 Owners Manual said:
Automatic Emergency Braking does not apply the brakes, or stops applying the brakes, when:
• You turn the steering wheel sharply.
• You press and release the brake pedal while Automatic Emergency Braking is applying the brakes.
• You accelerate hard while Automatic Emergency Braking is applying the brakes.
• The vehicle, motorcycle, bicycle, or pedestrian is no longer detected ahead


So humans can already override the system multiple ways.

. Teslas will not give you control of your car in an AEB situation. This is 1000% dangerous.

Also 1000% untrue.

Why the F#$% would it not allow me to escape the dangerous impending rear end accident by moving forward with a gentle push of the accelerator?


The push needs to be hard, not gentle, but otherwise works exactly as you asked for...(plus 2 other methods to stop AEB listed the driver can do)

If you're trying to avoid an impending rear-ending why would you be GENTLE with the accelerator?
 

user212_nr

Active Member
Aug 26, 2019
1,407
739
US
I just want human controls to override the car choices. This seems reasonable.

Well not really in the case of AEB, because the feature is trying to take the car to a stop and to do that needs to ignore the gas pedal.

What you really want is to improve the feature, to have it not brake so much or in error.

The choice now is between turning it off and leaving it on. I had a strange experience with the blind spot detection (moved the car "out of the way") but I'm not sure I'd want to disable it just yet.
 

Vines

Active Member
Jul 20, 2018
1,851
2,131
Silicon Valley, CA
Well not really in the case of AEB, because the feature is trying to take the car to a stop and to do that needs to ignore the gas pedal.

What you really want is to improve the feature, to have it not brake so much or in error.

The choice now is between turning it off and leaving it on. I had a strange experience with the blind spot detection (moved the car "out of the way") but I'm not sure I'd want to disable it just yet.

No, I want to be able to override AEB with a push of the accelerator. The current form is unsafe in a panic stop situation as it removes my option to escape with the accelerator.
 

Vines

Active Member
Jul 20, 2018
1,851
2,131
Silicon Valley, CA
It's also how it already works. (bold added)





So humans can already override the system multiple ways.



Also 1000% untrue.




The push needs to be hard, not gentle, but otherwise works exactly as you asked for...(plus 2 other methods to stop AEB listed the driver can do)

If you're trying to avoid an impending rear-ending why would you be GENTLE with the accelerator?

Because I have a P3D and a hard push would cause another Rear end accident. There is only a narrow space I have to escape, by accelerating, turning the wheel, getting clear of the stopped car, then accelerate hard.
 

Knightshade

Well-Known Member
Jul 31, 2017
11,437
15,106
NC
No, I want to be able to override AEB with a push of the accelerator. The current form is unsafe in a panic stop situation as it removes my option to escape with the accelerator.


Except, it doesn't. It explicitly allows that option, as well as 2 others, to override AEB.


Because I have a P3D and a hard push would cause another Rear end accident. There is only a narrow space I have to escape, by accelerating, turning the wheel, getting clear of the stopped car, then accelerate hard.

Turning the wheel sharply ALSO overrides AEB.

You're complaining about a problem that doesn't actually exist.
 
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Vines

Active Member
Jul 20, 2018
1,851
2,131
Silicon Valley, CA
Helpful as always, thanks for the "input" @Knightshade

Of course everyone knows, the first thing you do in a panic stop...jerk the wheel right?

No, what I needed was gentle acceleration, then steering input, then hard throttle, then brakes.

I needed the car to respond to the human telling it to go, when I activated the go pedal.
 

Paddy3101

Member
Mar 20, 2019
261
389
San Diego, US
Except, it doesn't. It explicitly allows that option, as well as 2 others, to override AEB.

Turning the wheel sharply ALSO overrides AEB.

You're complaining about a problem that doesn't actually exist.

I agree.

Also, some of the conclusions in cases where AEB hasn't seem to engage, is because the driver was invoking some of these over-rides. (e.g Steering when they rear-ended something else, Accelerating into a garage door/wall)

There has to be a threshold over which you need to cross, to show that you INTENDED to accelerate, or steer to differentiate that from accidental override due to the AEB braking.

So, your foot is hovering over the accelerator when AEB invokes. The sudden deceleration causes your foot to 'brush' the accelerator pedal. Do you want that to immediately cancel the AEB, and rear-end whatever it was braking for?

No, you have to POSITIVELY override it by providing a large input that isn't likely to be caused by the braking.
 

Paddy3101

Member
Mar 20, 2019
261
389
San Diego, US
Helpful as always, thanks for the "input" @Knightshade
Of course everyone knows, the first thing you do in a panic stop...jerk the wheel right?
.

Should be no such thing as a panic stop. Always looking for my 'alternates' and where the other vehicles are around me. Always know whether there is anything to the left or right of me should I need to go there.

Big difference between a Panic stop, and a Hard/Emergency stop. Panic stop implies you aren't in control.
 

Knightshade

Well-Known Member
Jul 31, 2017
11,437
15,106
NC
Great so my options do not include the car responding to what I am telling it to do.

Except, it does.

But you have to be clear it's what you're actually telling it to do.

Otherwise it'd be a pretty terrible safety system if it turned off anytime it kinda-maybe-sorta thought you were trying to override it.


I need to either accelerate hard or turn hard, either one leading to a loss of traction

The P3D, even on all seasons, at full throttle- does not lose traction from a stop...so yours on performance tires certainly would not.

Ditto turning the wheel.

You're being hysterical over a fake problem.
 

Paddy3101

Member
Mar 20, 2019
261
389
San Diego, US
Except, it does.

But you have to be clear it's what you're actually telling it to do.

Otherwise it'd be a pretty terrible safety system if it turned off anytime it kinda-maybe-sorta thought you were trying to override it.

The P3D, even on all seasons, at full throttle- does not lose traction from a stop...so yours on performance tires certainly would not.

Ditto turning the wheel.

You're being hysterical over a fake problem.


From a stop, put a large right, lock on, and mash the throttle at the same time. Will quite happily do what you ask, throw you into the door and go right with all the HP it can put down. It won't loose traction significantly, and will control what the tires/road can't deal with. (In a safe place obviously!)

Same with braking, Full braking to the point of ABS kicking in, you can still throw it left-right to do a moose-swerve.

Same in the wet. (Snow, Ice and Aquaplaning situations are just a law of physics limitations)

Can't defy the laws of physics, but at any speed you are likely to be doing on the road, it will quite happily do more than the vast majority of drivers would push it to do. Then it will give a little shake/shudder as it sorts itself out, and then just carry on.

Your not going to worry it in the slightest, giving it enough to positively override the AEB.
 

Vines

Active Member
Jul 20, 2018
1,851
2,131
Silicon Valley, CA
Wow, I guess I should have just accelerated hard, obviously I am "Hysterical." Typical caustic, blaming KS attitude.

Tesla needs improvement here, human input controls should override the computer functions. Even if the computer thinks its a bad input.

I am a bit disappointed in the responses, but shouldn't be surprised as I have seen this same response to many other users here who bring an issue they feel strongly about. They get shut down, told they are doing it wrong, they need to read the manual etc.

I want the human inputs to override the computer, thats it. This is reasonable. There is no reason why the program should second guess me when I gently press the accelerator during an AEB event. This programming is unsafe. Saying something like "Well if your foot is hovering..." is just a poor excuse.
 

Knightshade

Well-Known Member
Jul 31, 2017
11,437
15,106
NC
Wow, I guess I should have just accelerated hard

Or turned the wheel hard.

or press/release the brake pedal.

Any of the 3 would've disengaged AEB- contrary to you continuing to claim it's "impossible" to defeat it.



, obviously I am "Hysterical."

increasingly so, yes.


Tesla needs improvement here, human input controls should override the computer functions.

They do. In at least 3 different ways explicitly listed in the manual
 
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Paddy3101

Member
Mar 20, 2019
261
389
San Diego, US
Wow, I guess I should have just accelerated hard, obviously I am "Hysterical." Typical caustic, blaming KS attitude.

Tesla needs improvement here, human input controls should override the computer functions. Even if the computer thinks its a bad input.

It does, and you can. The car will quite happily let you drive into a wall, or the back of a car if you so desire.

It will try to avoid you accidentally doing that, but if you really insist, it will do so.

I am a bit disappointed in the responses, but shouldn't be surprised as I have seen this same response to many other users here who bring an issue they feel strongly about. They get shut down, told they are doing it wrong, they need to read the manual etc.

The car is a machine, everyone who uses the machine, needs to understand, to varying degrees how the machine will react. Different people have different needs and different amounts of knowledge, and motivations to understand different amounts.

The car is a General Purpose machine, which needs to cater for a wide variety of users. It has customization and controls to make it suitable for different different people, BUT it isn't a 'full custom' design, specifically for you.

So you need to learn the controls of the machine to make the machine behave how you want it to, AND adapt what you want to what the machine can do.

I want the human inputs to override the computer, that's it. This is reasonable. There is no reason why the program should second guess me when I gently press the accelerator during an AEB event. This programming is unsafe. Saying something like "Well if your foot is hovering..." is just a poor excuse.

AND IT WILL, you just need to learn how to manipulate the controls to make it do what you want.

AND PRACTICE, so that you can do that, quickly, when you need to, without having to think to hard.

If you don't do that, then, that puts you in the bucket with the rest of the people that the car is trying to protect from their mistakes, and quite rightly so.
 

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