I got HW 4.0 but NO FSD Beta

[ewoodrick]

lol.

At least 99% of the forum understands...you can't help them all.

You have yet to give me any evidence that there is any such thing as a FSDb type of product that's not just development trees that had to split.

Just the very fact that both are my FSD cars are on old software is a prime indicator of the problem.
FSD has tended to be on old branches because the development and testing is a little slower.
Releases past 2023.7.20 indeed has vestiges of FSD in them, but they aren't activated, because they are old. And once car gets past the current active FSD release, the old version isn't activated. You've got to wait for the FSD release to catch up.

This is done, because the majority of cars don't have FSD subscriptions, in perpetuity or monthly. So the feature group can add and test new features while the FSD group is working diligently.

Or would you rather Tesla keep everyone back at the 2023.7.20? Then when you sign up for FSD, you'd get it.

You are making up conspiracy theories.

Go back and look at the HW4 cars that have FSD. I suspect that every one of them had a FSD subscription when 2023.7.20 came out. And that's probably the last time that anyone got it.

 

[freek4iphone]

I don't know that a consumer that didn't follow a forum like this would even know about FSDb as it's not mentioned anywhere on the order page. What is mentioned there is currently delivered with the exception of summon and auto park, but I believe there's a disclaimer in the app after ordering for that as there was for me. View attachment 955651

The screenshot that you attached, Is that any different for people who end up getting Autosteer on City Streets? For people getting the Autosteer and for people not getting the Autosteer the desclaimer is the same. You are bombarded with videos of people using Fsdb with the same disclaimer. Not everyone buying a Tesla is supposed to read this forum at least not mandated by Tesla.

to your point - you still got Fsdb with that disclaimer and I didn't. Some people don't care about "capability" they care about actual product for which they paid a non refundable subscription fees.

As I said, I don't expect Tesla to change it's course and release a version for myself. I am ok waiting. Just don't charge me.

I have a 2016 Tesla Model X with AP1. They don't show me an option to buy a monthly subscription because it's not compatible. I expected the same here. If they have an option for me to buy average consumer will think it "works"

 

[uscbucsfan]

You have yet to give me any evidence that there is any such thing as a FSDb type of product that's not just development trees that had to split.

Just the very fact that both are my FSD cars are on old software is a prime indicator of the problem.
FSD has tended to be on old branches because the development and testing is a little slower.
Releases past 2023.7.20 indeed has vestiges of FSD in them, but they aren't activated, because they are old. And once car gets past the current active FSD release, the old version isn't activated. You've got to wait for the FSD release to catch up.

This is done, because the majority of cars don't have FSD subscriptions, in perpetuity or monthly. So the feature group can add and test new features while the FSD group is working diligently.

Or would you rather Tesla keep everyone back at the 2023.7.20? Then when you sign up for FSD, you'd get it.

You are making up conspiracy theories.

Go back and look at the HW4 cars that have FSD. I suspect that every one of them had a FSD subscription when 2023.7.20 came out. And that's probably the last time that anyone got it.

There's no reason for me to further explain the FSD Beta program to you. You don't even believe there is a difference between FSD Beta and FSD.

There's no conspiracy theory here, it's just what is going on.

Tesla has stopped adding new users to the 11.4.X software. They've accomplished this by not upgrading the base code.

Tesla is letting new subscribers into 11.3.6 via 2023.12.X and potentially 2023.20.X, but HW4 cars are ineligible for this.

Tesla sells, gives free trials, and allows subscriptions to FSD, which doesn't include FSD Beta as has always been the case. They have rejected refunds to those questioning the inability to use Beta, because Beta cannot be subscribed to. It's an early access testing program. You can still be suspended from it and then it reverts to just regular FSD.

It's fine...there are a lot of threads you can read to gather the information, if you choose. Or don't. I don't care.

 

[uscbucsfan]

The screenshot that you attached, Is that any different for people who end up getting Autosteer on City Streets? For people getting the Autosteer and for people not getting the Autosteer the desclaimer is the same. You are bombarded with videos of people using Fsdb with the same disclaimer. Not everyone buying a Tesla is supposed to read this forum at least not mandated by Tesla.

No, completely different messaging once you receive it.

 

[ewoodrick]

There's no reason for me to further explain the FSD Beta program to you. You don't even believe there is a difference between FSD Beta and FSD.

There's no conspiracy theory here, it's just what is going on.

Tesla has stopped adding new users to the 11.4.X software. They've accomplished this by not upgrading the base code.

Tesla is letting new subscribers into 11.3.6 via 2023.12.X and potentially 2023.20.X, but HW4 cars are ineligible for this.

Tesla sells, gives free trials, and allows subscriptions to FSD, which doesn't include FSD Beta as has always been the case. They have rejected refunds to those questioning the inability to use Beta, because Beta cannot be subscribed to. It's an early access testing program.

It's fine...there are a lot of threads you can read to gather the information, if you choose. Or don't. I don't care.

I purchased FSD over 5 years ago. I ran for years with NoA on city streets and highways. I was NOT a member of the private beta group. One of my cars was earlier in the FSD beta program when it first came out of private beta and required a Safety Score. My other car joined a little bit past then.
I have therefore been on a FSD beta release since around 3rd quarter last year.
A few months after I had FSD beta, that's when Tesla announced that the FSD beta was now open for everyone and it started rolling out to most cars.

Somewhere along that line, USS was removed from some cars and these cars were not the able to run the FSD beta, because FSD was expecting to use the sensors. When the NHTSA cam along with a recall requirement, these cars had to be moved to a different branch in order to implement the recall, as well as implement Tesla Vision. This branch did not have current FSD beta in it.

For those with the operational FSD beta, we were still waiting for an update after the USS upgrade came. It came out and since it was a newer release than the non-USS one, those with FSD subscriptions were moved to it.

But then new updates were being added and they went into the non-USS release. At this point, the cars couldn't backup in release and since then, the cars have not been able to move to the latest FSD branch.

Tesla is not arbitrarily or even purposefully giving or denying FSD to anyone. At this point, FSD is a product that is in beta.

This is basically the same discussion that existed at the beginning of the year where USS support wasn't available. There were all sorts of theories, and they all fizzelled out when the "software that could never work" was released.

I am quite aware of the FSD Beta program from last year and I know when it ended. I even posted an article about it that you seemed to have ignored.

 

[uscbucsfan]

I purchased FSD over 5 years ago. I ran for years with NoA on city streets and highways. I was NOT a member of the private beta group. One of my cars was earlier in the FSD beta program when it first came out of private beta and required a Safety Score. My other car joined a little bit past then.
I have therefore been on a FSD beta release since around 3rd quarter last year.
A few months after I had FSD beta, that's when Tesla announced that the FSD beta was now open for everyone and it started rolling out to most cars.

Somewhere along that line, USS was removed from some cars and these cars were not the able to run the FSD beta, because FSD was expecting to use the sensors. When the NHTSA cam along with a recall requirement, these cars had to be moved to a different branch in order to implement the recall, as well as implement Tesla Vision. This branch did not have current FSD beta in it.

For those with the operational FSD beta, we were still waiting for an update after the USS upgrade came. It came out and since it was a newer release than the non-USS one, those with FSD subscriptions were moved to it.

But then new updates were being added and they went into the non-USS release. At this point, the cars couldn't backup in release and since then, the cars have not been able to move to the latest FSD branch.

Tesla is not arbitrarily or even purposefully giving or denying FSD to anyone. At this point, FSD is a product that is in beta.

This is basically the same discussion that existed at the beginning of the year where USS support wasn't available. There were all sorts of theories, and they all fizzelled out when the "software that could never work" was released.

I am quite aware of the FSD Beta program from last year and I know when it ended. I even posted an article about it that you seemed to have ignored.

You are confusing USS with HW4. Non-USS cars works with FSD Beta on all v11, including 11.3.6.

Again, reading is fundamental. You make a lot of leaps and seem to not have a lot of knowledge outside of your own anecdotal information. I don't hold the weight of having 3 cars in Beta since 10.3 any higher than those who read up on it often.

Your article was written off an Elon tweet. Again, I can't help you if you can't help yourself.

 

[ewoodrick]

You are confusing USS with HW4. Non-USS cars works with FSD Beta on all v11, including 11.3.6.

Again, reading is fundamental. You make a lot of leaps and seem to not have a lot of knowledge outside of your own anecdotal information. I don't hold the weight of having 3 cars in Beta since 10.3 any higher than those who read up on it often.

Your article was written off an Elon tweet. Again, I can't help you if you can't help yourself.

So it was HW4. Still, same statements, it's waiting for the software branches to pass by each other.

What's the entrance criteria to FSD Beta?
What's the difference between FSD and FSD Beta? (and NoA?)
Who has FSD? I'm pretty sure that I'm on the most advanced version and all I've got is the FSD Beta.

 

[uscbucsfan]

So it was HW4. Still, same statements, it's waiting for the software branches to pass by each other.

What's the entrance criteria to FSD Beta?
What's the difference between FSD and FSD Beta? (and NoA?)
Who has FSD? I'm pretty sure that I'm on the most advanced version and all I've got is the FSD Beta.

I have FSD Beta 11.4.4, there are people who just recently were accepted with FSD Beta at 11.3.6. There are also people who have subscribed or received a 3 month trial to FSD, but aren't allowed to Beta. When they question Tesla, they are told that they have the advertised FSD features (NoA and stop sign/light recognition).

Even after safety score and prior to HW4, Tesla froze any new testers from signing up during the recall.

Tesla as a company still has FSD as a product which is available to purchase or subscribe. FSD Beta is not a product, yet. It's a Beta testing program.

Again, for the last time hopefully. Tesla isn't offering anyone "Autosteer on City Streets" as a company. It's coming soon.

We can argue it's a ripoff, but FSD is Basic Autopilot and Enhanced Autopilot with Traffic Light and Stop Sign Control. It's all over their websites.

 

[ewoodrick]

I have FSD Beta 11.4.4, there are people who just recently were accepted with FSD Beta at 11.3.6. There are also people who have subscribed or received a 3 month trial to FSD, but aren't allowed to Beta. When they question Tesla, they are told that they have the advertised FSD features (NoA and stop sign/light recognition).

Even after safety score and prior to HW4, Tesla froze any new testers from signing up during the recall.

Tesla as a company still has FSD as a product which is available to purchase or subscribe. FSD Beta is not a product, yet. It's a Beta testing program.

Again, for the last time hopefully. Tesla isn't offering anyone "Autosteer on City Streets" as a company. It's coming soon.

We can argue it's a ripoff, but FSD is Basic Autopilot and Enhanced Autopilot with Traffic Light and Stop Sign Control. It's all over their websites.

View attachment 955710

Again, you've only explained my point. There are not two products. There is a single FSD that is in beta. There are still technical issue keeping folks fron getting the product.
There is not this mysterious "beta" program"

 

[uscbucsfan]

Again, you've only explained my point. There are not two products. There is a single FSD that is in beta. There are still technical issue keeping folks fron getting the product.
There is not this mysterious "beta" program"

I feel like you are trolling at this point, but whatever.

 

[vienanxe]

How do I know if I my Tesla Y comes with HW3 or HW4 ? , I got my Y on June 19 2023. The service guy told me I have HW4 but he wasn't 100% sure ...I look everywhere and could not find the information to indicate what hardware the car comes with.
Thanks

 

[JulienW]

How do I know if I my Tesla Y comes with HW3 or HW4 ? , I got my Y on June 19 2023. The service guy told me I have HW4 but he wasn't 100% sure ...I look everywhere and could not find the information to indicate what hardware the car comes with.
Thanks

Tesla Side Repeater: HW3 vs HW4 Hands-On [PICS] - TeslaNorth.com

HW3 (left) vs HW4 (right) With Tesla vehicles including Model S, Model X and Model Y rolling out with new Hardware 4 Autopilot cameras, we now have a hands-on first look at side repeater cameras comparing both generations. According to images shared by Reddit user u/menormedia, who owns an...

teslanorth.com

 

[Mardak]

How do I know if I my Tesla Y comes with HW3 or HW4 ?

Easiest is probably looking at the cameras in the windshield. HW3 has 3 cameras while HW4 has 2 (reddish) plus a dummy on the left.

 

[CuriousWren]

Lots of arguing going on in this thread, can anyone explain simply if new 2023 HW4 cars can use FSD or not currently? My car arrives soon and I get 3 free months of FSD and want to know if I can use it or will I lose those free months?

 

[Supcom]

Lots of arguing going on in this thread, can anyone explain simply if new 2023 HW4 cars can use FSD or not currently? My car arrives soon and I get 3 free months of FSD and want to know if I can use it or will I lose those free months?

Your car will have access to some of the FSD capabilities listed on Teslas website. This is primarily Navigate on Autopilot, where the car will automatically change lanes and navigate interchanges on highways. Summon and Autopark are not yet available for HW4 cars.

Your car will NOT have access to FSD beta (autosteer on city streets) yet. Possibly, when Tesla releases software version 2023.26.x, they will include the latest version of FSD beta (11.4.x), which does support HW4. But, the current version of FSD beta available to new cars (11.3.6) does not support HW4.

For all we know, 2023.26.X might provide Summon or Autopark. Tesla has yet to provide any timeline for enabling those features for HW4 or any car without ultrasonic sensors.

However, you should keep in mind that FSD beta is currently not a released part of the FSD package. Access to it is currently at the whim of Tesla, whcih has made it available to the vast majority of owners, but only to a small number of HW4 cars.

That's probably as simple as it gets, though still a bit complicated.

 

[fasteddie7]

Lots of arguing going on in this thread, can anyone explain simply if new 2023 HW4 cars can use FSD or not currently? My car arrives soon and I get 3 free months of FSD and want to know if I can use it or will I lose those free months?

To elaborate on what supcom said. HW4 vehicles delivered in March - May shipped with a version of the base software that allowed an upgrade to 11.4.x. At some point after that, Tesla released a new base software update that included an earlier, more stable version of FSDb from late 2022. This version was only compatible with HW3 vehicles. Since the version of base software shipping with HW4 is now higher than the base code that includes the version that works with it, any new deliveries will have to wait until the 11.4.x track catches up (seems unlikely) or they merge the tracks or release a newer base software with 11.4.x included instead of 11.3.6.

 

[CuriousWren]

To elaborate on what supcom said. HW4 vehicles delivered in March - May shipped with a version of the base software that allowed an upgrade to 11.4.x. At some point after that, Tesla released a new base software update that included an earlier, more stable version of FSDb from late 2022. This version was only compatible with HW3 vehicles. Since the version of base software shipping with HW4 is now higher than the base code that includes the version that works with it, any new deliveries will have to wait until the 11.4.x track catches up (seems unlikely) or they merge the tracks or release a newer base software with 11.4.x included instead of 11.3.6.

Thank you!

 

[vienanxe]

Easiest is probably looking at the cameras in the windshield. HW3 has 3 cameras while HW4 has 2 (reddish) plus a dummy on the left.

Thanks so much

 

[WyldRide]

This confusion is the problem. People should not have to do research or be confused about FSD or FSDbeta or whatever.
When Elon Musk says FSD is available for all cars and Ashok Elluswamy, Tesla's Director of Autopilot software who recently gave a talk at CVPR says all cars purchased today can have the FSDbeta, we should be able to rely on that information since Tesla does not release anything to the contrary.
People posting screenshots and disclaimers fail to realize that we do not get to see such terms until AFTER we purchase the vehicle. All we have before purchase are the assertions of senior representatives of the company.
What makes matters worse is there are people here with no connection to Tesla arguing what they seem to believe other people should somehow understand.
I am not paying a subscription for a future capability, but for a feature representatives of Tesla said was available now. I don't care about software forks or the minutia of hardware versions. I should not have to research on an Internet forum to get information.

 

[JulienW]

This confusion is the problem. People should not have to do research or be confused about FSD or FSDbeta or whatever......

Tesla is to blame for this and nothing we can do about it since that train has left the station. My guess is Tesla kinda wants a branding name to encompass FSD to all things related. Tesla actually has 3 FSD's and they are often confused and/or conflated (even by Elon himself).

• FSD Capability (optional software package)
• FSD Computer (HW3 or HW4 hardware in the car)
• FSD Beta (aka: Autosteer on city streets or L2 assisted self driving)