That's called clarification in case I misunderstood anything. Not everyone here is trying to pick a fight with you.
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I got HW 4.0 but NO FSD Beta
- Thread starter freek4iphone
- Start date
"Full Self-Driving (Beta)" / "FSD Beta" is a specific feature name that will likely eventually satisfy the final "Autosteer on city streets" item of "Full Self-Driving Capability." FSD Beta is not explicitly itemized nor are other features like "Full Self-Driving Visualization Preview" (to show trash cans, etc.), so what others have been trying to say is this specific feature isn't guaranteed even when purchasing/subscribing.
Practically, Tesla has been working towards realizing this last item of FSD Capability, and they've included 11.3.6 as part of the main software version, so people can acquire the software option and use FSD Beta right away. However, that particular version is not compatible with HW4, so new vehicles (except Model 3 for now) will need to wait, but it seems obvious Tesla is working towards increasing compatibility as they've already gotten it working for "early access" 11.4.x with HW4.
As with many things FSD related, there have been delays in getting 11.4.x to the main software such as 11.4.5 from 2 weeks ago not good enough for wider testing, but today there's 11.4.6, which hopefully will be good enough for wider early access testing followed by main software deployment.
That's everyone, including Tesla's interpretation of FSD vs FSD Beta except ewoodrick.
Ok I'll jump in here... Explain something for me... Whether the program "created a year or two ago and closed" actually closed or not, who cares, what is the fight about... The FSDb(or FSD Beta) program that exist now does exist and Tesla can limit who actually gets to use it, and limits who gets to use which version in whichever vehicle.
Various terminology:
"Full Self-Driving Capability" otherwise as commonly references as "FSD" - this is what can be purchased for *currently* $15k, this contains all EAP
functionality as well as "Traffic Light and Stop Sign Control"
- Various features under the EAP option, as well as the "Traffic Light and Stop Sign Control" are listed as being a "BETA" feature in the manual
- Just because a feature is listed in the manual as being in "BETA" does not make "FSD"
"FSD Beta" - this term started with the first limited access beta program that people could sign up for.
- Now "FSD Beta" and "FSDb" are used interchangeably and mean the same thing
"FSDb" a- This specific term started when Tesla started including the FSD Beta switch in the software for people to turn on and off
"FSDb" and "FSD Beta" - currently used interchangeably to reference features included in the FSD Beta switch in the user interface of the vehicle.
Whether FSD is "only in Beta" now or not, does not mean that FSD = "FSDb" or "FSD Beta" It does not.
Whether everyone using "FSD" right now is using a "Beta version" or not, does not mean that they are using "FSDb" or "FSD Beta".
"FSDb" or "FSD Beta" is or is not a limited access beta program and can change at any time at the whim of Tesla and Elon Musk. They can limit the upgrades as they choose which is why some people are still on 11.3.6 vs being moved to 11.4.4. As a matter of fact, most of the firmware versions end up being limited access for various reasons.
There IS a deliverable FSD product now, it is "Traffic Light and Stop Sign Control". This is the ONLY listed deliverable currently according to Tesla's website. Just because this feature is listed as a "BETA" feature in the manual does not negate it being a deliverable feature, and does not take it out of the "FSD" category and into the "FSDb" or FSD Beta" category.
Yes, this all can be viewed by some a "nitpicking" about terminology but these are very important distinctions when discussion the various subjects here.
Even though I understand where you are coming from @ewoodrick , you are trying to lump things together that shouldn't be lumped together from a technical sense.
Again, this thread is in response to @uscbucsfan keeps arguing.
Every time that I say that current FSD = FSD Beta = FSDb @uscbucsfan disagrees. @uscbucsfan suggests that there is this beta program that Tesla is keeping people out of.
My statement is that for people who can't FSD (FSD Beta) today, the problem is simply a inconsistency in the current software branches. The branches have to cross before people can jump into one, especially with the fact that FSD is on a much older core.
@derotam I believe that you and I are agreeing, Tesla sales FSD. FSD is not available today. It's FSD Beta that's available today. There is not FSD Beta program requiring special admittance to, as there was last year, that program was closed after everyone was let in.
Mercedes Owner to Tesla owner : Does your car have FSD (Full Self Driving)?
Tesla Owner : Yea
Mercedes Owner : Are you sure ?
Tesla Owner : No, but at least I have FSD (Frequent Software Downloads)
Mercedes Owner: Did your recent FSD got FSD?
Tesla Owner: No that was for Non FSD
Mercedes Owner: So when will your FSD get actual FSD?
Tesla Owner : it seems it will be FSD (Forever still dreaming)
Tesla Owner : Yea
Mercedes Owner : Are you sure ?
Tesla Owner : No, but at least I have FSD (Frequent Software Downloads)
Mercedes Owner: Did your recent FSD got FSD?
Tesla Owner: No that was for Non FSD
Mercedes Owner: So when will your FSD get actual FSD?
Tesla Owner : it seems it will be FSD (Forever still dreaming)
Mercedes owner to ME, a Tesla owner.
Mercedes Owner: Will your car drive itself?
Me: Yes
Me: Will yours?
Mercedes owner: Yes
Me: At 50 mph?
Mercedes owner: No
Fine, go ahead and argue to your hearts content that there is no beta program that Tesla is keeping people out of....but don't try and say that FSD = FSD Beta = FSDb, because it doesn't.
Edit... "@derotam I believe that you and I are agreeing, Tesla sales FSD. FSD is not available today. It's FSD Beta that's available today. There is not FSD Beta program requiring special admittance to, as there was last year, that program was closed after everyone was let in."
No, no I do not agree with you. "FSD" does NOT equal "FSD Beta" or "FSDb"
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I have the same issue with My 2023MYLR with HW4. Just updated it to 2023.20.9 and still, FSD is not available except for stopping at stop signs and traffic lights. Enhanced Autopilot is also a beta version (Autosteer and Navigate display as beta). It would be nice if Tesla let owners know FSD is not available before you subscribe. My subscription is scheduled to be renewed on 8/4.
On repeat:
You bought/subscribed and have FSD Capability package. You are conflating FSD Capability with FSD Beta. The version of FSD Beta (11.3.6) Tesla offers in current software is not compatible with HW4. Tesla is testing a newer version 11.4.x that is HW4 compatible but it is not yet stable enough to release in the current software. You will have to wait as ALL new HW4 buyers on its release.
It doesn't matter what you call this feature. You can use all the jargons in the world but People are essentially paying to have their Steering wheel Turn automatically at turns. You can call it anything. The ONLY problem is that some people have this "Steering Wheel Turning" feature when they pay $199/Month (Youtube is full of such videos) and some people like us who paid but don't have this feature YET. end of story.
If tesla can't add this "Automatic Steering Wheel" on my car they should not charge me.
While I agree Tesla is a bastion of confusion you in FACT are NOT paying for it since it is still clearly listed as" Coming Soon". Here is exactly what you get in the FSD Capability package straight from Tesla.com.
exactly, so right next to Amount they should put (Coming Soon). Like $199/Month (Coming Soon)
SO the reason Tesla is doing what they are doing is because they know someone is fighting tooth and nail and defending their side.
1. What will be the price when it is no longer "Coming Soon" ? It will be $199. So what should be price when it "Coming Soon" ?? Something < $199.
2. For the people who received "Autosteer on City Streets" (HW3 Guys). Do they also have a "Coming Soon" when they signup or not?
Yes. Then they waited until they were accepted to FSD Beta. Some cases, like in December it only took a few days or even hours, but some waited months.
It's always been that way. FSD Beta isn't something you can just subscribe to and get in. It's never been that way, even when it was "available to everyone who purchased FSD or subscribed" in December. You still had to wait for a new SW download and for some it took longer than others.
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If you are insinuating that I'm defending Tesla practices or especially that Tesla is somehow implementing policy based on my option then that is ludicrous. I don't like the way Tesla does it and I think the whole Tesla's FSDs nomenclatures is obtuse, needlessly complex and confusing.
HOWEVER I'm just presenting facts and trying to be unbiased in it even though I don't agree with the way it's done.
Right. I think even the biggest Tesla supporters would agree that the FSD vs FSD Beta and how Tesla presents it is ridiculous.
I was thinking about what other things on the market are similar to FSD beta, and I realized the closest thing on the consumer market to FSD beta is "early access video games".
It's become common in the past several years to pre-sell early access games, consumers pay for a game (key point: they're not investors) while it's still in early development and in exchange they get to play early alpha/beta builds of the game and follow along in its development, potentially shape the final game through user feedback, also it's generally offered at a cheaper price than buying the game at release. Sometimes this goes really well, the development goes smoothly, communication with users is frequent and transparent, and the game is kept at a good state throughout the process, and everyone is happy. Also game streamers/influencers help promote the game on YouTube/Twitch by playing the beta releases (sound familar?). There are developer blogs, video updates, Discord chats, community polls, etc. Sometimes it goes horribly wrong, communication is rare/bad/opaque, the game is constantly broken, it takes way longer than expected, the final game doesn't match the promised product, customers feel ripped off, etc.
On the spectrum of good/bad early access titles, I wonder where FSD beta would sit. Like imagine if it had user reviews on the app store, would they be overwhelming positive or mostly negative? I think it would be slightly negative, mostly because communication is so poor and opaque. The only communication we get are build release notes, which are obviously incomplete. There was a time when Tesla would send you a welcome email when you joined the FSD beta, and now they don't even do that. There's Tesla AI Days but those are primarily hiring/investor events? There is no regular communication, blogs and dev interviews and that sort of thing. There's no real roadmap. There's Elon tweets which are super misleading. It's not great, it could be WAY better if they cared.
It's become common in the past several years to pre-sell early access games, consumers pay for a game (key point: they're not investors) while it's still in early development and in exchange they get to play early alpha/beta builds of the game and follow along in its development, potentially shape the final game through user feedback, also it's generally offered at a cheaper price than buying the game at release. Sometimes this goes really well, the development goes smoothly, communication with users is frequent and transparent, and the game is kept at a good state throughout the process, and everyone is happy. Also game streamers/influencers help promote the game on YouTube/Twitch by playing the beta releases (sound familar?). There are developer blogs, video updates, Discord chats, community polls, etc. Sometimes it goes horribly wrong, communication is rare/bad/opaque, the game is constantly broken, it takes way longer than expected, the final game doesn't match the promised product, customers feel ripped off, etc.
On the spectrum of good/bad early access titles, I wonder where FSD beta would sit. Like imagine if it had user reviews on the app store, would they be overwhelming positive or mostly negative? I think it would be slightly negative, mostly because communication is so poor and opaque. The only communication we get are build release notes, which are obviously incomplete. There was a time when Tesla would send you a welcome email when you joined the FSD beta, and now they don't even do that. There's Tesla AI Days but those are primarily hiring/investor events? There is no regular communication, blogs and dev interviews and that sort of thing. There's no real roadmap. There's Elon tweets which are super misleading. It's not great, it could be WAY better if they cared.
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