Driving my m3lrdm on fm 2657 in Texas Sunday when I came upon an Amazon delivery van that had just pulled out of a driveway and was blocking the road sideways. I kept waiting for me car to see the van but it did not. I had to hit my brakes hard. I saved the "tape" but do not know how to just cut the.relevant portion. Hopefully my daughter can help me and I can post it
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I had to use my brakes while on autopilot
- Thread starter Ramona48
- Start date
qingshan
18 lr rwd fsd
They weren't kidding when they advised us that it is a Beta and to keep hands on the wheel and stay alert. It almost ran me through a red light on a metered interchange.
Knightshade
Well-Known Member
User manual makes it clear it's only intended for use on controlled access divided roads- ie places there are no driveways or cross-traffic.
Use it where it's not intended for use and you can't be surprised when it doesn't "work right"
Use it where it's not intended for use and you can't be surprised when it doesn't "work right"
The same issue of not seeing a sideways truck could come up on an interstate as well.
Knightshade
Well-Known Member
In the sense that if you totally ignore the warning for the driver to pay attention and be ready to take control that could happen? Sure.
Otherwise not so much.
That dude had FOREVER to notice the truck directly in his path and hit the brakes and just wasn't paying attention- so again, user error.
The main difference of course is cross-traffic on undivided roads with driveways and intersections is extremely common- while a vehicle turned over sideways on an interstate is fairly rare.
Hence the software is intended for that second situation but not the first- though the driver needs to be paying attention in all cases.
Mattopotamus
Member
Just double checking that you have FSD and not just AP? FSD will obey lights, and AP will only "obey" lights if it has a car in front to follow. Eg, you have to stop at red lights with AP if no one is in front of you.
qingshan
18 lr rwd fsd
Yup, fsd, but this metered interchange (nb57-eb210) goes green, red pretty fast as it allows 2 vehicles per green
In reply to my not paying attention, I saw the van from over a quarter mile away and kept waiting for the car to "see" it also but it failed to do so and I was a good 50 feet plus when I stopped fully and the car could still not see the van. While this is not a common problem, the car has missed vehicles a few other times. As for the controlled access part. If the car can not see a delivery van sideways in the road, in plain sight, while doing 60 on a clear day, how am I to be sure the car is going to see the rear of a sedan stopped ahead of it while doing 70?
Let me clear, I love my M3, and use it's safety features every chance I get. But while I use these features, I NEVER trust them. I find myself paying much more attention to the road when they are on. Teslas are really good but they are not perfect and anyone who believes they are, well let me say I hope they have lots.of life insurance.
Let me clear, I love my M3, and use it's safety features every chance I get. But while I use these features, I NEVER trust them. I find myself paying much more attention to the road when they are on. Teslas are really good but they are not perfect and anyone who believes they are, well let me say I hope they have lots.of life insurance.
Mattopotamus
Member
On a similar note, the braking is out of control on the latest softwares. If I am in the left lane and the car in front of my gets in the middle turn lane, my car slows to probably 20mph under the speed limit, and I have to accelerate or it takes a while to pick back up. I have just given up using AP in the left lane right now. I feel like someone behind me will rear end me.
Knightshade
Well-Known Member
Good
The systems recognition works largely on pictures. The NN is trained pretty heavily to know what the back of a car looks like.
Which isn't very much like what the SIDE OF A VAN looks like at all.
Hence why the system is intended for use only in places where all the cars are going the same direction, and exit/entry from the road is controlled by things like on/off ramps.
See above. The system is not intended to be used in places where turn lanes exist. This is user error 100%.
(and from Elons comments on the investor call- this isn't likely to change until the full 4D re-write gets pushed to the fleet, which remains, at least, months away)
Mattopotamus
Member
Good
The systems recognition works largely on pictures. The NN is trained pretty heavily to know what the back of a car looks like.
Which isn't very much like what the SIDE OF A VAN looks like at all.
Hence why the system is intended for use only in places where all the cars are going the same direction, and exit/entry from the road is controlled by things like on/off ramps.
See above. The system is not intended to be used in places where turn lanes exist. This is user error 100%.
(and from Elons comments on the investor call- this isn't likely to change until the full 4D re-write gets pushed to the fleet, which remains, at least, months away)
It is a highway, which is an intended use.
Knightshade
Well-Known Member
It's not a limited access one if there's a van pulling out of a driveway onto it- so no, it's not intended use at all.
(nor is it one if there's turn lanes- let alone MULTIPLE turn lanes as you described)
Mattopotamus
Member
We are going to have to agree to disagree. AP would not be an option if it was not an intended use. It is in beta, so everything is an "intended" use with the caveat of user beware. This level of braking is a new development.
Knightshade
Well-Known Member
Well, you're disagreeing with not just me, but the actual owners manual of the car- but you do you.
This is categorically false. Again- read the owners manual.
It allows you to turn it on almost ANYWHERE, but is very clear about the types of places it's intended to be used.
It even makes a point in said manual about how the system will be more restrictive on speed if you CHOOSE to use it places it's NOT intended for- which again is what you did, and why you saw unexpected behavior.
Mattopotamus
Member
The owners manual seems to align with what I said. It says nothing about highways only that are divided. Unless you can point me to that wording, I feel like you just made it up or going off "facts" you read on the forums. If I am wrong, I am wrong, but I have never once read that. Also to clarify, said highway does not have crosswalks or bicycle lanes.
Autosteer is intended for use only on highways and limited- access roads with a fully attentive driver. When using Autosteer, hold the steering wheel and be mindful of road conditions and surrounding traffic. Do not use Autosteer on city streets, in construction zones, or in areas where bicyclists or pedestrians may be present. Never depend on Autosteer to determine an appropriate driving path. Always be prepared to take immediate action. Failure to follow these instructions could cause damage, serious injury or death.
Silicon Desert
Well-Known Member
Hmmm, I didn't see where someone claims you weren't paying attention, but maybe that is because it is someone I've ignored..... for reasons just like this. Always criticizing.
So to say, same as you, I have seen similar issues and I don't completely trust the Tesla's decisions. Fortunately things are slowly getting better and I look forward to the day that I can trust it more. Frankly, right now I just use the advanced features on long interstate trips (probably were there should only be used with some confidence).
Mattopotamus
Member
Hmmm, I didn't see where someone claims you weren't paying attention, but maybe that is because it is someone I've ignored..... for reasons just like this. Always criticizing.
So to say, same as you, I have seen similar issues and I don't completely trust the Tesla's decisions. Fortunately things are slowly getting better and I look forward to the day that I can trust it more. Frankly, right now I just use the advanced features on long interstate trips (probably were there should only be used with some confidence).
I have to agree with the person you quoted about having AP on makes me actually pay attention more and is more stressful. The only exception is stop-and-go traffic at slow speeds. It is a life-safer there.
Knightshade
Well-Known Member
it's in your own quote.
limited access roads do not have turn lanes
So using it where there's turn lanes, including multiple ones as you indicated, is not using it where intended.
Owners manual said:
Let me also point you to the very next page in the manual where it adds:
Owners manual said:
So it's making clear it's intended for CONTROLLED ACCESS roads that are DIVIDED.
Those don't have turn lanes.
Silicon Desert
Well-Known Member
well yes, now that you mention it, I forgot to say I do also use it under those stop and go situations and it has worked great for me.
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