I hope Tesla Lowers the Supercharging Rates

[MARKM3]

I live in NC, and Tesla has recently raised the national average price for supercharging significantly. Currently the prices around me:

Fayetteville N.C. - .26c/KW (going rate is .06c for the city and state average)

Lumberton N.C. - .27c/KW

Why is it that Tesla decided to raise the rate so high that my model 3 now cost 6c per mile to supercharge - the same as if I would have bought a Rav4 Hybrid (5-6c/mile). Prior to the increase, it would cost me half of that per mile to drive the model 3 - 3c per mile. It is also priced WAY above utility rates in the state.

I bought this car in part to travel more and at the same time save money. Now I would have been better off to just get an ICE with the rates going up like they have. In one month of ownership, I've put 2,600 miles on the car and roughly 50% of those miles were supercharging.

For every supercharging stop I make, I could fill up at a gas station from empty to full 10 times. It is now not only less convenient to use my car for business travel, but also more expensive, something I honestly did not expect when purchasing the car. The trip savings estimator was very valuable to me as that was a $800 savings per year. Now it is near NULL.

I could get the best of both worlds with a Hybrid like the volt - Tesla, why are you doing this? Especially at a time where gas prices are seeing historic lows with a national average of $2.25/gal.

.....

 

[David_Cary]

6 cents is not average in NC. Or are you talking about what the prior SC rate was?
I pay about 11 cents in Duke Power territory - which I believe is most of the state.
At the coast, we have a co-op and the price is within 5% of that (but we do get a $20 rebate once a year)

Remember that the first 250 miles (give or take) of any trip is at your home rate.

You would have been better off getting a used Corolla. Or a used Model S I suspect.

 

[Lloyd]

It should be more than you are paying at home to encourage you to charge there when you are able. I like that local charging is being discouraged. I don't mind paying more while I am traveling away from home to allow me to charge unhindered.

 

[Kuhz]

It should be more than you are paying at home to encourage you to charge there when you are able. I like that local charging is being discouraged. I don't mind paying more while I am traveling away from home to allow me to charge unhindered.

An observation I made locally.

I drive by a fairly busy urban SC almost daily and take note of who’s charging. For the last few months the number of model 3s supercharging there has increased exponentially to where sometimes it’s only those models charging. However the ratio is usually about 3:1 Model 3 over Model S and X combined. Since the increase took place it is now about 1:1.

So yes, I think the increase is working in discouraging local or opportunistic charging but sucks for those who lack home charging and must rely on SuCs. As far as paying more while traveling, I’d rather do that than wait in line or slow charge at a paired stall.

 

[ewoodrick]

So, yes, the RAV4 hybrid at about $2/gal is close to the Supercharging rate. But that's already a hybrid and assumes that the price of gas doesn't go back up. So what Tesla's done is to make long distance travel a little more expensive, but still cheaper the 90% of the vehicles on the road, even with current gas prices.

So the moral of the story is to not use Superchargers. Charge at home or L2 chargers more.

I've taken at least 5,000 miles of long distance travelling and (while at the old rates) I don't think that I spent over $100 in Supercharging. That's because there were a number of other options along the way, charging at hotels, at homes, etc.

Also, go look at the competition for DC fast charging.

And look at it from a business model. Just how much do you think it costs to build a Supercharger? to maintain one? Amortize that over a few years and see what the cost of charging should be.

Sure, the price increase stinks. And here in Georgia it is really weirdly set. Superchargers across the street from each other have different rates.

 

[chronopc]

I hope so too. I would imagine as solar gets adopted more, electricity cost will go down.

 

[suwaneedad]

I live in NC, and Tesla has recently raised the national average price for supercharging significantly. Currently the prices around me:

Fayetteville N.C. - .26c/KW (going rate is .06c for the city and state average)

Lumberton N.C. - .27c/KW

Why is it that Tesla decided to raise the rate so high that my model 3 now cost 6c per mile to supercharge - the same as if I would have bought a Rav4 Hybrid (5-6c/mile). Prior to the increase, it would cost me half of that per mile to drive the model 3 - 3c per mile. It is also priced WAY above utility rates in the state.

I bought this car in part to travel more and at the same time save money. Now I would have been better off to just get an ICE with the rates going up like they have. In one month of ownership, I've put 2,600 miles on the car and roughly 50% of those miles were supercharging.

For every supercharging stop I make, I could fill up at a gas station from empty to full 10 times. It is now not only less convenient to use my car for business travel, but also more expensive, something I honestly did not expect when purchasing the car. The trip savings estimator was very valuable to me as that was a $800 savings per year. Now it is near NULL.

I could get the best of both worlds with a Hybrid like the volt - Tesla, why are you doing this? Especially at a time where gas prices are seeing historic lows with a national average of $2.25/gal.

.....

Sorry you're so frustrated.
- There's no chance your area commercial/industrial per kwH rate is 6 cents. So I'd recommend getting that accurate so you don't end up with flawed decision making going forward.
- Going forward, what is your plan? Are you going to sell your Model 3 and if so at what price? Or are you going to sit tight knowing you're merely ~near ICE fuel rates per mile during the ~50% of the time you are using SCing, knowing that gasoline prices are likely to rise again once OPEC gets greedy again. Meanwhile, you're printing money the ~50% of the time you charge at home.
- It is too bad that you didn't recognize the closed-loop nature of the SC network when you chose to buy a Tesla, since SC pricing appears to have been critical to your use case and purchase decision. Tesla began charging for SCing in a rush, and did so with an immensely broad brush for simplicity and speed when rolling it out. This is merely a refinement to ensure pricing is closer to the real costs of building and operating a particular SC location.
- We may find that as SC usage increases Tesla is able to reduce SC rates as the fixed costs are amortized over more kwH.
- Personally I'd rather Tesla get solar panels installed, with accompanying powerwalls, so that we can stop buying much power from the local utility and get some cover from the rain and sun when SCing. Will that investment increase the price of SCing at these locations? I suspect so, and I'll happily pay it. Giving the power companies the finger is a personal priority of mine, so opposed to solar/etc are they.

 

[sreams]

I live in NC, and Tesla has recently raised the national average price for supercharging significantly. Currently the prices around me:

Fayetteville N.C. - .26c/KW (going rate is .06c for the city and state average)

Lumberton N.C. - .27c/KW

Why is it that Tesla decided to raise the rate so high that my model 3 now cost 6c per mile to supercharge - the same as if I would have bought a Rav4 Hybrid (5-6c/mile). Prior to the increase, it would cost me half of that per mile to drive the model 3 - 3c per mile. It is also priced WAY above utility rates in the state.

I bought this car in part to travel more and at the same time save money. Now I would have been better off to just get an ICE with the rates going up like they have. In one month of ownership, I've put 2,600 miles on the car and roughly 50% of those miles were supercharging.

For every supercharging stop I make, I could fill up at a gas station from empty to full 10 times. It is now not only less convenient to use my car for business travel, but also more expensive, something I honestly did not expect when purchasing the car. The trip savings estimator was very valuable to me as that was a $800 savings per year. Now it is near NULL.

I could get the best of both worlds with a Hybrid like the volt - Tesla, why are you doing this? Especially at a time where gas prices are seeing historic lows with a national average of $2.25/gal.

.....

For the sake of clarity, .26c and .06c are both less than one cent. You mean either 26 cents or $0.26.

 

[talkingevs]

Tesla is losing new customers with this move guaranteed. They have worked through the amount of Tesla fansboys now and those still wanting one are mostly waiting for the smaller battery model 3. Those are normal families that at the time of reservations we're told there would be gas savings. Now there isn't and there is no tax credit in a few months.... Tesla better get their act together or they aren't going to make it.

 

[David_Cary]

Supercharging rates do not matter 95% of the time. 5% is so small we are literally talking about $50 a year or less for the average buyer. The sky is still up there...

 

[Snow Drift]

You can't compare it to a Toyota running 87 octane. Luxury cars in the M3 segment run on 91/93 octane. Tesla is still way cheaper than a $40k sport-sedan ICE. If I used a supercharger, it's about half the cost.

Old NY Tesla rate: $0.24/kWh x 75 kWh = $18
New NY Tesla rate: $0.31/kWh x 75 kWh = $23.25

My STI (~300mi range) in NY: $3.50/gal x 15.9 gal tank = $55.65

 

[Zaxxon]

As a counterpoint, I really hope they don't lower rates anytime soon. What the Supercharger network needs most right now is more. More stations at [some] existing locations, more locations, more CCS cables in Europe, more kW max charge rate. More doesn't come freely. Tesla is trying to be sustainably profitable, and if we want that (I do) and also for the Supercharger network to continue rapid expansion (I do), then Tesla pricing access sustainably is part and parcel.

I can see how folks would be annoyed that the rates have gone up twice pretty recently, and that some will feel that this is a betrayal of Tesla's promises. I can't say you're wrong. But as various military minds have said, no plan ever survives contact with the enemy. Not a perfect analogy here, but a useful one, IMO.

Tesla created the network to solve the chicken-egg problem of no one wanting to jump into a market with no quick refueling network, and no providers wanting to create such a network without a market existing first. They succeeded in that mission. Now they have a related but different issue--they're selling vehicles at a very impressive rate, and the Supercharger network needs to keep up with that rate of expansion. If you're annoyed that Supercharging costs are about equivalent to a gasoline hybrid vehicle, believe me when I say you'd be far more annoyed if you had to wait in line for an hour whenever you want to Supercharge.

Regardless of the somewhat muddled messaging from Tesla over time, Supercharging is for long-distance travel, and for locals who need to Supercharge because they cannot procure home or work charging sufficient to meet their needs. Full stop. If you're using it for those purposes, then the newly-inflated rates shouldn't be that disconcerting since you're either Supercharging fairly rarely or you're Supercharging in place of putting in or paying for your own home charging setup.

If you were instead planning to leech off the network just because it's cheap and you can, then I have little sympathy for you. Little rather than none because, again, Tesla has not done as good a job in communicating the Supercharger network's purpose as I'd have liked. But very close to none--at the end of the day, the success of Tesla in the general sense and of the Supercharging network specifically are far, far more important to me than the tears of a small subset of the population. That may sound harsh, but it is what it is.

 

[MP3Mike]

Fayetteville N.C. - .26c/KW (going rate is .06c for the city and state average)

Are you sure that your $0.06/kWh is full-in costs? (Energy/Delivery/Transmission/Taxes/etc.)

I could get the best of both worlds with a Hybrid like the volt

Better buy one quick as GM has decided to stop making/selling the Volt.

 

[TeeEmCee]

Supercharging rates do not matter 95% of the time. 5% is so small we are literally talking about $50 a year or less for the average buyer. The sky is still up there...

Yeah, however they may very well matter in 95% of the situations where Normal Joe decides whether a Tesla is a good REPLACEMENT for his current vehicle, as opposed to yet another car to have around for us fanboys.

This change means nothing to me, I’ll just take one of the other cars if I drive out of town. For those who consider it for their only car, this will shift the sales narrative dramatically, and not for the better.

Any good sales pitch should be concise, clear and to the point. “It’s cheaper to run than a gas car” meets that criteria. “If you charge at home at off-peak rates and use free slow chargers on the road and do not make supercharging count as a high percentage of you use ... bla bla bla” is not exactly a winning pitch.

Mark my words, this will be quite disastrous for their future demand.

 

[TeeEmCee]

Tesla is losing new customers with this move guaranteed. They have worked through the amount of Tesla fansboys now and those still wanting one are mostly waiting for the smaller battery model 3. Those are normal families that at the time of reservations we're told there would be gas savings. Now there isn't and there is no tax credit in a few months.... Tesla better get their act together or they aren't going to make it.

That would be correct!

 

[TexasEV]

The purpose of the supercharger network is to enable long distance travel with an EV, not necessarily to make it less expensive than using every ICE out there. For most people, long distance travel is only a small fraction of their yearly driving. Local driving is still much less expensive when you charge the home compared to buying gas. Also gas prices right now are the lowest they’ve been in years, but they’re not going to stay that way.

 

[BE_M3]

Here in California charging puts me into the highest tier PG&E rate is $0.26 per KW. which roughly = about 50 MPGe. Far less than what Tesla advertised, (110 MPGe)

 

[TexasEV]

Here in California charging puts me into the highest tier PG&E rate is $0.26 per KW. which roughly = about 50 MPGe. Far less than what Tesla advertised, (110 MPGe)

Have you looked at time of use plans? You should be able to charge less expensively at night.

 

[TeeEmCee]

The purpose of the supercharger network is to enable long distance travel with an EV, not necessarily to make it less expensive than using every ICE out there. For most people, long distance travel is only a small fraction of their yearly driving. Local driving is still much less expensive when you charge the home compared to buying gas. Also gas prices right now are the lowest they’ve been in years, but they’re not going to stay that way.

"The purpose of this inconvenient and less reliable product/service is not to necessarily be cheaper than the other ones but ..."

I say, good luck selling anything with that argument!

 

[ℬête Noire]

"The purpose of this inconvenient and less reliable product/service...."

How did we get on the subject of your posts?