I hope Tesla Lowers the Supercharging Rates

[Matt L]

Tesla is losing new customers with this move guaranteed. They have worked through the amount of Tesla fansboys now and those still wanting one are mostly waiting for the smaller battery model 3. Those are normal families that at the time of reservations we're told there would be gas savings. Now there isn't and there is no tax credit in a few months.... Tesla better get their act together or they aren't going to make it.

So let me get it straight, the more free *sugar* Tesla gives away the more people will take it? Sounds novel!

Listen, I’m not a fan of the prices going up but I understand that as a Model 3 owner, I’m enjoying the SC network that was paid for by the premium of the Model S and Model X. The rapid ramp up of the Model 3 has created congestion at the SC and thus they need to build capacity. How would you expect them to do that? Certainly not by giving it away or breaking even. They are going to have to generate some revenue from SC users in order to continue to build out the network.

Sorry, no free lunch.

 

[dmurphy]

Here in California charging puts me into the highest tier PG&E rate is $0.26 per KW. which roughly = about 50 MPGe. Far less than what Tesla advertised, (110 MPGe)

Here in NJ, I’m at ~$0.12 per kW. ($0.0367 delivery + $0.0846 generation) So that’s:

Home charging: ($.12 x 75kWh) = $9.00 for ~275mi range (3.27 cents per mile)

Supercharging: $0.31 x 75 kWh = $23.25 for ~275mi range (8.45 cents per mile)

This week’s average (regular) gas price in NJ: $2.35/gal

I average approximately 20.5 miles per gallon in my Cadillac XT5 (87 octane): 11.46 cents per mile

I average about 12,000 miles/year. On the Cadillac, that’s $1,375.60 in fuel per year.

On a Model 3, that’d be $392.40 in electric if I charged at home 100% of the time (as I’d expect. I don’t go anywhere more than 125 miles from home.)

Not sure about anyone else, but I can think of a lot more fun things to do with $1,000/year than fuel.

Even if I had to use a Supercharger 100% of the time, that’d be $1,014/yr. I’d still save $360/yr over current operating costs. And - in reality - if I used a Supercharger 5% of the time, that’s be very excessive.

 

[arcus]

Here's another example: I am driving 60-70 miles every day. With majority of charging done at home (occasional SC if I am running lengthy errands during the weekend) the utility bill went up by ~ $60 per month. My rate is $0.11 per kWh.

I was spending about 220-240 bucks a month on premium gasoline on my previous ride, with less driving.

As many already pointed out, superchargers are not meant as your go-to charging solution, but were designed with long-distance travelers in mind.

 

[ℬête Noire]

Here in NJ .... Supercharging: $0.31 x 75 kWh = $23.25 for ~275mi range (8.45 cents per mile)

Wait, no it isn't that high there. Not unless you sit there and take it up to 100% SOC or something?

That wasn't my recollection of the prices (I never charged there but I did scout them when driving through) and I just looked it up on the car (tesla.com doesn't seem to have a by state list anymore?). NJ is a by minute State. 15c/min for 60KW and under, 29c/min above 60kW. That means it's going to average somewhere 20c and 25c /kWh unless you have some need to take past 85% SOC, and can easily be below 20c if you can get by only 60% or less SOC.

EDIT: Wait, did I miss plans for an upcoming rate change that isn't implemented yet? Ah, okay that's why this angst is here.

 

[rickjames]

Keep in mind the majority of Tesla's install base is in California. There was already congestion at superchargers prior to M3 release here in San Diego. A price change will not alleviate this. I picked mine up early on in the delivery/production schedule and there were few, if any 3s at superchargers and there was almost always a wait to charge. Fast forward to 2019 and now its a solid mix of 3s and S/X. Certain superchargers in the area are more 3 vs S/X than others of course but these is always a wait.

Bottom line is you will never find a way to discourage urban owners without home charging to stop using superchargers unless you ban them from using them altogether. The price will not discourage this population and will ultimately only hurt Tesla as a whole by negating their pennies per mile efficiency and convenient charging narrative. There are plenty of posts all over this forum stating that various enormous percentages, some as high as 95% of users, are charging exclusively at home. They are definitely wrong.

 

[rickjames]

Have you looked at time of use plans? You should be able to charge less expensively at night.

Time of Use in CA only shifts your expected charging time 12:01 pm to 5 or 6 am to a reasonable rate per kw while making the rest of your day of use completely unreasonable, especially in the summer with A/C use.

The math just does not work out.

 

[MARKM3]

According to StatsApp, the model 3 on average gets 80% of its rated efficiency across all users. That would mean:

241/WH is actually 289/WH average

Car goes 260 miles on full charge with above WH/MI, times $0.31/KW = $0.09/ mile to operate model 3 on average using just Supercharging Network.

At home, I pay $0.12/KW which = $0.04/Mile. If I do a 50/50% mix, that brings the average cost per mile up to $0.06-$0.07 / mile. Still higher than what it cost to drive a Toyota RAV4 Hybrid.

Also, Tesla is selling the model 3 to the mass market. Good luck selling people on "it cost more to fuel than an ICE hybrid and you do have to wait 30 minutes to 70 minutes at a charger"

There were better ways Tesla could recoup the money. First, charge according to the time of day that is demand/off peak. Make it to where if you supercharge at 12AM, prices reflect that and share that with the consumer. I'd be fine paying .50c/kw if that is what Tesla is actually charged from the electric company at 12PM on a Monday afternoon.

This broad brush answer by raising their national average to .31C is just flat out lazy and a pathetic excuse to customers for a pricing structure. I have no clue what it will even cost to do a road trip until I get in the car and look at the specific supercharging price...

 

[Glamisduner]

Time of Use in CA only shifts your expected charging time 12:01 pm to 5 or 6 am to a reasonable rate per kw while making the rest of your day of use completely unreasonable, especially in the summer with A/C use.

The math just does not work out.

My power bill is actually still cheaper, but we switch to laundry on the weekends only because it's from 12-2pm. We will be regulating AC usage to turn off before 4:00, but will just crank up the AC before then to help compensate. Sure is a pain but so far we are saving over our tiered plan.

 

[ℬête Noire]

According to StatsApp, the model 3 on average gets 80% of its rated efficiency across all users.

Now do the RAV4!

 

[rickjames]

My power bill is actually still cheaper, but we switch to laundry on the weekends only because it's from 12-2pm. We will be regulating AC usage to turn off before 4:00, but will just crank up the AC before then to help compensate. Sure is a paint but so far we are saving over our tiered plan.

So you have to alter how you use your electricity in order for it to make cents... sorry. Anyway, the fact you have to alter your usage by not using at all is a sad excuse on SDG&Es supposed "savings" plan. Side note, I am not much further down the 15 from you and it gets pretty hot in the summer, no A/C after 4pm when the hottest part of the is 3 to 6pm, I do not envy you.

 

[YusufT]

You’re making it sound like it’s the end of the world and buying a Tesla was such a bad idea all because of a supercharger price increase in an effort to build more stations. It’s not that much more, and supercharging isn’t supposed to be your primary source of charging.

If you’re not going to road trip in your Tesla because of a slight price increase, more power to you. But the ease, comfort, and maintance (or lack of) are reasons I would continue taking road trips. Each their own, but you can’t demand Tesla to retract their price increase because you refuse to pay more.

 

[rickjames]

You’re making it sound like it’s the end of the world and buying a Tesla was such a bad idea all because of a supercharger price increase in an effort to build more stations. It’s not that much more, and supercharging isn’t supposed to be your primary source of charging.

If you’re not going to road trip in your Tesla because of a slight price increase, more power to you. But the ease, comfort, and maintenance (or lack of) are reasons I would continue taking road trips. Each their own, but you can’t demand Tesla to retract their price increase because you refuse to pay more.

You're right, it is not supposed to be, except the majority of Tesla's sold M3s exist in an area where a large portion of those owners charge at a supercharger. There are four superchargers within San Diego county, three of them have a constant wait to charge. The fourth one requires you to pay to use the parking garage per 15 minutes on top of the supercharger price. It never has more than 4 or 5 of its stalls occupied.

Roughly 135,000 Model 3s were sold in 2018 in the U.S. Half were in California. There is a reason superchargers are full here.

I have no problem paying more, but this continued increase of supercharger rates to build out the network WILL have an effect on Tesla's narrative of efficient and lost cost per mile driving and that is just not good for future sales and expansion.

 

[swaltner]

For the sake of clarity, .26c and .06c are both less than one cent. You mean either 26 cents or $0.26.

Ah, good old "Verizon cents" ... an Internet meme from years ago! <chuckle>

 

[Knightshade]

According to StatsApp, the model 3 on average gets 80% of its rated efficiency across all users. That would mean:

241/WH is actually 289/WH average

Car goes 260 miles on full charge with above WH/MI, times $0.31/KW = $0.09/ mile to operate model 3 on average using just Supercharging Network.

Which few people actually need to do other than road trips, because it's much cheaper, and easier, to charge at home.

Not to mention that's the wh average for ALL model 3s, including Ps...the RWDs get significantly better (which I think you said you had in the other thread)

At home, I pay $0.12/KW which = $0.04/Mile.

Which is $2 for 80 miles of driving. Vastly better than any gasoline car out there, hybrid or not.

If I do a 50/50% mix, that brings the average cost per mile up to $0.06-$0.07 / mile. Still higher than what it cost to drive a Toyota RAV4 Hybrid.

And also very much an edge case since most folks are going to use SCs 1/10th as often as you suggest, or less.

Plus you're stuck driving a slow, boxy, poor handling SUV versus a quick excellent handling sedan.

(if your answer is you don't care you just want the cheapest roadtrip car then you should have either bought a used FUSC tesla- or a used Prius... a new Rav4 hybrid makes 0 sense in any situation you've laid out).

Also, Tesla is selling the model 3 to the mass market. Good luck selling people on "it cost more to fuel than an ICE hybrid and you do have to wait 30 minutes to 70 minutes at a charger"

But none of that is actually true for most use cases, as explained to you above (and several folks did several times in the other thread too)

Because the mass market on average drives 30 miles a day. They will rarely need or use superchargers.

And will be home charging for far cheaper than they can gas up any gas car.

So their annual fuel cost will remain much lower with a Tesla than any ICE vehicle- even your beloved RAV4 Hybrid

You seem to keep making the same factually nonsense argument about it though.

 

[TexasEV]

There are plenty of posts all over this forum stating that various enormous percentages, some as high as 95% of users, are charging exclusively at home. They are definitely wrong.

No, I don't think anyone said that 95% of users charge exclusively at home. The statistic that's been cited several times is that 95% of charging is done at home (or at least not at superchargers). Tesla knows every charging session of every car, and a few years ago made a statement that only 5% of all charging (in kWh) was done at superchargers. This may be a little outdated with more buyers especially of Model 3 not having the ability to charge at home, but I would be surprised if that 95% figure was less than 90% now.

 

[BobAbooey]

It should be more than you are paying at home to encourage you to charge there when you are able. I like that local charging is being discouraged. I don't mind paying more while I am traveling away from home to allow me to charge unhindered.

I seen a lady drop off a model 3 and get picked up another by a guy in another model 3. Probably do this all the time for free charging... don’t think that was the idea around superchargers

 

[rickjames]

No, I don't think anyone said that 95% of users charge exclusively at home. The statistic that's been cited several times is that 95% of charging is done at home (or at least not at superchargers). Tesla knows every charging session of every car, and a few years ago made a statement that only 5% of all charging (in kWh) was done at superchargers. This may be a little outdated with more buyers especially of Model 3 not having the ability to charge at home, but I would be surprised if that 95% figure was less than 90% now.

A FEW YEARS AGO. When the average Tesla owner made a 100k average income, owned an S or X, and charged in their garage. A few years in the future here in 2019, superchargers are jam packed in California, 135k Model 3s are on the road and 50% or 70k+ of those are in California.

That "95%" is way down now and supercharger congestion proves it.

 

[ebmcs03]

I agree. I don’t expect $0.06 a kw electricity. But charging Tier 3 electricity rates is too much. It should be on par with tier 1 electricity rates. $0.16 a key in California.

 

[ebmcs03]

Have you looked at time of use plans? You should be able to charge less expensively at night.

Yes. I have and it doesn’t help. I can charge for less at night but have to pay through the nose during the evening when I need electricity to light up the house!

 

[rickjames]

Yes. I have and it doesn’t help. I can charge for less at night but have to pay through the nose during the evening when I need electricity to light up the house!

Agreed, TOU is a scam. California needs to get away from this privatized utility setup. It failed. No competition to lower rates. Just go to a public utility setup or bring in another company.