I need to know about your rattles....

[super20g]

I'm not sure what state you are in but pursuing lemon law is excruciatingly difficult in most places. My car has been out of service for a total of 10 days but not for the same problem. Lemon law where I am states the car has to be out of service for 30 days for the same problem not just in general and it also indicates the manufacturer has x amount of tries to fix a problem before it can even go to arbitration.

Ahh, Ok. My state doesn't seem to make the same distinction. It's 4 repair attempts or 30 business days out of service, but doesn't mention the 30 days has to be for the same problem. I wasn't suggesting you actually lemon it. I figured with all your hassle you'd have more days out of service than that and if you did indeed meet lemon criteria, you just tell Tesla you'd like to discuss a buy back rather than dealing with the overhead involved with the lemon process which neither side wants. They don't want a car with a branded title and no one wants to hire a lawyer and go through all that. Since you're only 10 days out, it sounds like you are stuck with the same circular loop you are in now, unless you want to ask for a buy back anyways or try out a different service center since they are not all created equal.

 

[TeeEmCee]

That is seriously depressing. I was under the impression that you had gotten your issues resolved.

I drove in this morning on ice packed roads, so the ride was rougher than normal. The driver side of the car was quiet but the entire passenger side was making a ridiculous amount of noise. I had to concentrate on the road so there was really no opportunity to record it but it was pretty obnoxious.

I'm at the point now where I'm almost ready to look into some kind of split L/R microphone setup I can use to record really good audio in the car of the things it is doing. I would clip one to each head rest and make a stereo recording of what it is doing and then put it on Tesla to fix it.

Tesla service has been a real let down for me. I had small noise issues with both of my BMWs and BMW bent over backwards to get them resolved. When the door seals were squeaking on my 340i the service manager who supervises all of the technicians did a test ride with me and immediately started talking about the remediation steps they would need to take, which included replacing all of the door seals with a revised part and if that didn't resolve the issue then they would spend a couple of hours installing 3M tape along the entire frame of the car to quiet the squeaking... ultimately that is what they had to do. They were always courteous, provided me a loaner and the service was always completed to my complete satisfaction, there was never a need to "verify" the work done and not once in 30 years of car ownership have I gotten a car back from a repair from a dealer shop and had new problems introduced from when I gave them the car.

The worst part is that I really like driving this car when it is not annoying the f&**k out of me. If Tesla hadn't destroyed my resale value I would honestly be approaching the point where I would be doing an executive escalation and try to get them to buy me out of this car and put me in another one.

Now, what's both hilarious and properly depressing, at the same time, is that you're describing exactly my issues and exactly my reaction to them and to the "service" center's performance, all the way down to me scouring Amazon for high-sensitivity microphones to use for recording the intermittent cacophony of rattles in and outside the cabin. On that front, in some cases I managed to record things with just the iphone, then processed the waveform on the computer such as to boost the exact frequency range of the rattle or creak, such that they can more easily identify it (translation: such that they can no longer pretend not to hear it). I've done all the discovery for them, even freakin' showed them how to align things such as to not eff them up again (the door alignment being the most egregious such example). Take a guess what they did ... you guessed it, ignored my findings and instructions and effed it up again.

Your comment about BMW ... same thing here with all of my old BMW or Audi cars. Many have had service "oopsies" ... crap happens eventually ... but, with one exception (promptly remedied elsewhere), never did a service manager try to bamboozle me into accepting the kind of garbage that the Tesla JV squad counts as work. Every such unfortunate event (e.g. tech dropped a heavy tool and scratched the hell out of a door) was met with a "holy crap, sorry about that, here's a nice A7 for you, come back in another couple of days".

Then there's the part about "I actually like this car". Same effin' thing here. I walk past it in the garage ('cause that's where it sits, I can't drive the thing and keep my sanity) and I think to myself ... why in the bleeping bleep do they have me go through this? I can probably fix all of that myself, given enough time and effort. All it would take is to take a few things apart, find and address the ... wait for it ... ROOT CAUSE and not an isolated symptom.

What adds insult to injury is that, the more accommodating you are, the more they treat you like a sucker ... such as talking trash about you while you're on hold for the 9th repair appointment. Apparently, not only can they not fix cars, but they also can't always find the mute button. It would also seem that one's "sucker quotient" shoots up dramatically once one decides to make a habit out of dropping one or two hundred bucks on lunch for the entire SC after each such "repair" appointment.


TL;DR
Put everything on paper and ask for your money back, or be prepared to keep doing this until they get tired of you too ... and then put everything on paper and ask for your money back.

 

[StealthP3D]

It would also seem that one's "sucker quotient" shoots up dramatically once one decides to make a habit out of dropping one or two hundred bucks on lunch for the entire SC after each such "repair" appointment

Wait, you took all the Service Center employees out to lunch after they tried, but failed, to locate rattles you described to them?

And they don't refer to you as "Sir Benefactor"?

I'm appalled!

This story just keeps getting more strange the more I learn.

 

[super20g]

What adds insult to injury is that, the more accommodating you are, the more they treat you like a sucker ... such as talking trash about you while you're on hold for the 9th repair appointment. Apparently, not only can they not fix cars, but they also can't always find the mute button.

That's funny (thinking about it from where I am sitting). I record all phone calls (not just Tesla) by default. Has saved me a screw job dealing with the service manager.

 

[TeeEmCee]

Wait, you took all the Service Center employees out to lunch after they tried, but failed, to locate rattles you described to them?

Can't quite determine if you're being inquisitive or sarcastic. No, it's not about rattle identification failures, it's almost everything failures ... painting, scratching, suspension repair, rattles, panel alignment, interior damage ... and yes, why not do such a thing? I assumed they're trying hard and that they were working with less-than-excellent parts and corporate support, trying to get my issues resolved. Indeed, some of them were actually trying their best and yes, they did resolve some of my issues (however, taking one order of magnitude more time than say BMW or Audi).

If I am to use my own management experience to assess their predicament, then no, I don't think the techs are the problem. Their processes, procedures, management inexperience ... everything I've seen at the SCs seems to result in little other than disservice to both the customers and the technicians. In all fairness though, with any business other than Tesla and monopolies, that's never the customer's problem. All of that would be a non-issue if they had natural competition (a.k.a. dealerships).

And they don't refer to you as "Sir Benefactor"?

Again, my sarcasm detector reading is inconclusive, but no, it's more like "oh, that guy again".

 

[TeeEmCee]

None of the five Model 3's I have driven have had any squeaks or rattles. With both Model S, Model X and Model 3 I have had rattles from my hard sunglass case which I invariably think is the car, then find the culprit and cure the problem.

Very helpful!
Let me go check the sunglass drawer in the Model 3 ...

 

[TeeEmCee]

That's funny (thinking about it from where I am sitting). I record all phone calls (not just Tesla) by default. Has saved me a screw job dealing with the service manager.

It shouldn't come to that. A business that makes you feel you need to resort to that should not see another dollar from you.

Way to take something good and eff it up, Tesla!

 

[StealthP3D]

All of that would be a non-issue if they had natural competition (a.k.a. dealerships).

Holy Carp! You are wishing for the dealership business model? WoW! I don't know what to say, I'm speechless.

What Service Center is this anyway?

 

[StealthP3D]

It shouldn't come to that. A business that makes you feel you need to resort to that should not see another dollar from you.

No offense here, but it sounds like they don't want another dollar from you. How much have you given them so far and what has it achieved?

 

[TeeEmCee]

I recognize that my attitude towards such problems is probably influenced by my habitual early adopter behavior plus my habit of being in places where service competence is famously inadequate.

It's not that, definitely not the lack of willingness to deal with issues or, for that matter, unreasonable expectations.

Like most everyone else, I had seen the shoddy stuff coming out of the factory and decided I can live with that. Tesla's service used to be praised to the moon and back by owners, all you could read in the olden days was "yes, there will be issues but they'll take royal care of you". Maybe not others, but I'm among those who went in with eyes wide open, even with a bit of a comical "alright, let's show them germans how us schlobs get it done" glee to it. Never expected the utter failure on service front.

 

[TeeEmCee]

Holy Carp! You are wishing for the dealership business model? WoW! I don't know what to say, I'm speechless.

What Service Center is this anyway?

Come on down to Texas and I'll take you to my next-door Audi place and then to Tesla, and then you tell me which one is better.

All the things that dealerships deserve scorn for pale in comparison to Tesla's ineptitude (I shoud say "in my experience", "your experience may be different" and all that). Yes, I was at Audi the other day, checking out a Q8 (as a stand-in for the eTron) and overheard a sales conversation where a poor dude seemed to be taken to the cleaners. I cringed and then said to myself "yep, he's about to leave several grand on the table ... but that's a lot less than I have, to date, pissed away with my Tesla".

You know the other thing I'm doing now? I'm buying a stack of gift cards and I'm distributing them to all the good sales people I interacted with at the various dealerships I visited looking for a replacement for my Tesla. Yes, yes, there were some crappy ones that don't deserve another moment of my attention, but there were plenty that put a lot of genuine effort into letting me find the car I want, something that is in such violent contrast with the disdain I have received from Tesla that it bears being recognized and rewarded.

So yes, they're not necessarily that bad.

 

[TeeEmCee]

Appreciate the venting opportunity y'all, need to head back to work now ... gotta earn some money to send back to Germany again, since our peeps are too dainty for the likes of voip and I.

 

[super20g]

No offense here, but it sounds like they don't want another dollar from you. How much have you given them so far and what has it achieved?

Off topic, but in my circumstance, they damaged every piece of glass on the car, damaged a bunch, and I mean most interior trim replacing all of the glass on the car, damaged all 4 rims, damaged the front bumper, (introduced new rattles/road noise during the repairs that I found out later). They worked out a service credit deal with me to keep the car, when I get up there the service manager told me I misunderstood and he wanted to give me a few grand less. I asked if he would like me to play the conversation back, he got pissy for recording him (one party state though...) and after a little more back and forth he gave me what he said he would on the phone the day before... Glad I had the call recorded. I should have just pushed for a buy back at that time but I thought it was fixed and I could move on (and bought EAP + FSD with the credit). It's still one thing after another though. And I paid 60K for the car which is now cheaper with presumably a better build quality and not the sorted past. Still love the car, just not particularly this one. Edit: Ohh, I don't think the above quoted comment was directed at me, my bad. Thanks for the healthy venting though, hehe.

 

[StealthP3D]

All the things that dealerships deserve scorn for pale in comparison to Tesla's ineptitude (I shoud say "in my experience", "your experience may be different" and all that). Yes, I was at Audi the other day, checking out a Q8 (as a stand-in for the eTron) and overheard a sales conversation where a poor dude seemed to be taken to the cleaners. I cringed and then said to myself "yep, he's about to leave several grand on the table ... but that's a lot less than I have, to date, pissed away with my Tesla".

So how much have you given to this particular Tesla Service Center and what did you get for that? And which SC is it? This is geting interesting.

You know the other thing I'm doing now? I'm buying a stack of gift cards and I'm distributing them to all the good sales people I interacted with at the various dealerships I visited looking for a replacement for my Tesla. ​

Oh, no, do not distibute a stack of gift cards amongst different dealership salespeople! That is a HUGE mistake and it sends entirely the wrong message. I'm far from new to the car buying game and that is the LAST thing you want to be doing. If you feel appreciative, do it after the sale, never before! I don't care how much you want them to think of you as their superior, benefactor, friend or whatever you want to call it, don't do it!

No charge for my advice.​

 

[StealthP3D]

Off topic, but in my circumstance, they damaged every piece of glass on the car, damaged a bunch, and I mean most interior trim replacing all of the glass on the car, damaged a 4 rims, damaged the front bumper, (introduced new rattles/road noise during the repairs that I found out later). They worked out a service credit deal with me to keep the car, when I get up there the service manager told me I misunderstood and he wanted to give me a few grand less. I asked if he would like me to play the conversation back, he got pissy for recording him (one party state though...) and after a little more back and forth he gave me what he said he would on the phone the day before... I should have just pushed for a buy back at that time but I thought it was fixed and I could move on. It's still one thing after another though.

Yes, we have already heard your account, more than a few times. But, yeah, it wasn't very wise to become "that guy" by telling them you had been recording them covertly (even if it is a one-party consent state). That explains a lot.

My rules for dealing with dealerships (or even a Tesla SC) include getting anything important in writing. I would never covertly record them because people say all kinds of things in the heat of the moment and it's a losing battle to try to hold them to whatever they might have said that was in your favor. Then you become "that guy". Sure, they shouldn't say something they can't follow through on but all these relationships basically work on trust. Once that is shattered, on either side, it doesn't work. So there is no point in recording them, just get anything important in writing before acting on it.​

 

[Drizzle]

The first one is what they call “chassis bolts”. Essentially, your suspension is not properly attached to the body (needs to be torqued and greased). With a normal manufacturer, that would be a recall and all vehicles on the road would be verified and tightened properly. With Tesla it’s “eh, the suspension’s a bit loose, whatevs”.

I had mine in for that and suspension clunks twice, problem still present. I asked them in disbelief why they would not verify all corners for the same problems, they looked at me like I was a lunatic and told me they only work on the specific things the customer points out and they can reproduce. What that translates into is that I had to PROVE to them (with a test drive) that there’s an issue. Any less insane company would do what’s called a multipoint inspection, i.e. put the car up on the lift and have a tech spend a few minutes verifying everything. Not Tesla!

The super ironic thing is that, as I had the Tesla in for the umpteenth time for, among others, suspension issues, I took one of my Audis in for an inspection. This was one of those “I heard some funny noises a couple of times, can’t hear them anymore, but please make sure it’s alright”. They came back in half an hour with a diagnostic, identified an applicable TSB and HOURS later I had my car back with new wishbones on both sides. That was it, a coffee, a free shuttle ride, a few hours and zero dollars.
Tesla kept my car altogether for months for much simpler issues that, to this date they have failed to fully resolve.

On one hand I'm glad I know what it is now. On the other, I can't believe my car with 1,700 miles is doing this. Wtf?

 

[TeeEmCee]

So how much have you given to this particular Tesla Service Center and what did you get for that? And which SC is it? This is geting interesting.

Oh, no, do not distibute a stack of gift cards amongst different dealership salespeople! That is a HUGE mistake and it sends entirely the wrong message. I'm far from new to the car buying game and that is the LAST thing you want to be doing. If you feel appreciative, do it after the sale, never before! I don't care how much you want them to think of you as their superior, benefactor, friend or whatever you want to call it, don't do it!

No charge for my advice.​

You're projecting a lot of things here ...

 

[StealthP3D]

You're projecting a lot of things here ...

Maybe I misuderstood. When I asked how much $$ you had given the Tesla Service Center, I was asking about this:

I was at Audi the other day, checking out a Q8 (as a stand-in for the eTron) and overheard a sales conversation where a poor dude seemed to be taken to the cleaners. I cringed and then said to myself "yep, he's about to leave several grand on the table ... but that's a lot less than I have, to date, pissed away with my Tesla".

I was also asking which Tesla Service Center was unable to fix all your rattles?

 

[voip-ninja]

For anyone who has suggested lemon law, my state's relevant statute;

Defects, such as rattles or squeaks, which do not substantially impair the use or market value of the vehicle are not covered. Neither are defects resulting from abuse, neglect, or unauthorized modifications or alterations of the vehicle by a consumer.

 

[sbtz]

I have a small rattle coming from the passenger climate vent area. It originally sounded like it was coming from the glove compartment, so I tried removing everything from there, keeping the door open or holding it shut, to no avail. I had something similar in my Model S where the problem went away when I turned the HVAC off... doesn't help in the 3.