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IDRA 8000 Ton Aluminum Press material concerns with Cybertruck Stainless Steel Material

hridge2020

Member
Apr 18, 2019
328
328
Central California
The 6,000-ton die-casting machine currently being used for Model Y/3 is using aluminum for its casting.

My concern, hopefully, yours too, the 8,000-ton die-casting machine schedule to be used for the Cybertruck is also using aluminum for its castings.

The main concern is, aluminum and stainless steel parts will be assembled together.
You shouldn't use Stainless Steel and Aluminum Together - it causes Galvanic Corrosion.

(Galvanic corrosion is the transfer of electrons from one material (anode) to another (cathode).

  • Anode – material that is positively charged, electrons leave this material
  • Cathode – material that is negatively charged, electrons enter this material
  • Electrolyte – liquid that aids in the process of electron transfer
  • Corrosion/corrode – Destroy or weaken metal gradually
Galvanic corrosion occurs when two materials (an anode and a cathode) come into contact with each other and an electrolyte. Electrolytes can be environmental factors such as humidity or rainwater. When these factors come into play, electron transfer will begin to occur. Depending on the level of resistance in an electrolyte, this transfer can happen much faster. This is why saltwater, an electrolyte with very low resistance, is a common factor when considering what product to use. Due to this, it is incredibly important to consider what material you are going to use in an environment. When working with a marine, saltwater environment, you even need to consider the type of stainless steel you are using.

There are multiple kinds of rust that can occur during the oxidization process.

How Can Galvanic Corrosion be stopped?
There are a few steps you can take if you MUST use these materials together.

  1. Add an insulator between the two materials so they no longer connect. Without that connection, the transfer of electrons cannot occur. Well Nuts are a commonly used fastener to help separate materials that can suffer from galvanic corrosion.
  2. Use materials with the same potential. Metals with the same corrosion resistance are typically ok to use together.
  3. If you are in a situation where only one of the materials will come into contact with an electrolyte then the transfer of electrons will not occur.
  4. If there is a coating on the cathode it can prevent the transfer through increased resistance.
  5. Consider your environment before installing. Choose materials that will work for your environment.
  6. Coat or paint your assembly (completely) so that the electrolyte cannot make contact with the materials
  7. Use neoprene EPDM or bonding washers as a barrier in between the metals.
Just an FYI, for the engineers/production staff, to perform during the manufacture of this product.


Source
 

hridge2020

Member
Apr 18, 2019
328
328
Central California
You don't think Tesla engineers know this?

I'm not sure what point you're trying to make.

Example of engineering, hope this engineer doesn't work on the Cybertruck.


banding and molding.jpg
 
  • Disagree
Reactions: mark95476

ThomasD

Active Member
Nov 22, 2019
1,261
629
Breckenridge Co Ky

This article could also apply to the cybertrucks stainless steel body​

5 Factors that Can Corrode or Rust Stainless Steel Baskets and More​

April 15, 2021 | Stainless Steel Baskets, Mechanical Engineering, Stainless Steel Carts
Even stainless steel can rust if exposed to the wrong conditions.

Stainless steel is well-known for being resistant to corrosion from things that make plain steel and iron (and other materials) rust away. However, many people don’t know why stainless steel is “stainless” and why it’s a preferred material for countless manufacturing applications such as Marlin Steel’s metal baskets, carts, trays, and racks.
Of course, it’s also important to know that stainless steel isn’t completely impervious to corrosion. Under certain circumstances, stainless steel alloys can become corroded, showing signs of rust or other problems. This often leads to the question: “What corrodes stainless steel?” In this blog, we’ll look at what makes stainless steel different from regular steel, and what factors can actually cause it to corrode.
QUICK LINKS

Why Is It Called Stainless Steel?​

The term stainless steel is a reference to the alloy’s tendency to resist rust under normal conditions. Scientific American states that “the chemical elements in stainless steel react with oxygen from water and air to form a very thin, stable film … The presence of the stable film prevents additional corrosion by acting as a barrier that limits oxygen and water access to the underlying metal surface.
This layer of rust is so thin that the human eye typically cannot see it without aid, giving the surface appearance of the steel its characteristic “stainless” appearance. Now, let’s dive a little deeper!

How Stainless Steel Differs From Plain Steel​

One of the first things to know about stainless steel is that there are countless formulations of it on the market. What separates one of these stainless steel alloys from a plain steel alloy (aside from having different component metals in different ratios) is that protective oxide layer of film. As long as this oxide layer remains unhindered, the steel will retain a shiny surface appearance.
So, what causes stainless steel to form this oxide layer? The answer lies in the specific elements used in most forms of stainless steel: Iron, manganese, silicon, carbon, and chromium. Some forms of stainless steel also add nickel and/or molybdenum to further enhance the performance of the oxide layer. Of these elements, chromium has the highest impact on the rust resistance of stainless steel, meaning chromium-rich stainless steel alloys (such as most austenitic stainless steels) tend to have the highest overall resistance to corrosion.
Specific additives, such as molybdenum, can help to bolster a stainless steel alloy’s resistance to certain corrosive chemicals. For example, grade 316 stainless steel has molybdenum which grade 304 stainless steel lacks. Because of this, grade 316 stainless steel is more resistant to chlorides.

5 Factors That Can Cause Stainless Steel To Corrode​

There are a number of reasons why a piece of stainless steel might start to develop rust. However, because there are hundreds of different alloys of stainless steel, what might cause one stainless steel alloy to corrode might not affect another one. Here’s a look at five factors that can cause stainless steel, including metal baskets and racks, to corrode.

1: Strong Chlorides Can Cause Pitting Corrosion in Stainless Steel

Many types of stainless steel alloys will suffer extreme pitting corrosion when exposed to environments that are rich in chlorides (such as salt). For example, grade 304 stainless steel, when used in naval applications, may start to suffer pitting as a result of contact with seawater (which is rich in salt) or salt-enriched sea breezes.
To avoid pitting corrosion, it’s important to use a grade of stainless steel that is specifically resistant to chlorides—such as grade 316 stainless steel. Alternatively, a specialized coating can be applied to the steel to prevent direct contact with chlorides in the environment.

2: Bimetallic/Galvanic Corrosion from Welding Dissimilar Stainless Steel Alloys

One basic mistake that some manufacturers may make when creating a custom steel wire or sheet metal form is that they may weld two dissimilar metals together—whether by accident or by design.
Why is this a problem? Because, when two metals with different properties are connected via a common electrolytic material (such as water or weld filler material), there may be a flow of electrical current from one material to the other. This will cause the less “noble” metal (meaning the metal that more readily accepts new electrons) to become an “anode” and start to corrode more quickly.
The speed of this corrosion will change depending on a few factors, such as the specific types of stainless steel being joined, what kind of welding filler was used, ambient temperature and humidity, and the total surface area of the metals that are in contact with one another.
The best preventative measure for bimetallic corrosion is to avoid joining two dissimilar metals permanently in the first place. A close second is to add a coating to the metals to seal them off with a coating to prevent the flow of electrons from the cathode to the anode.
It should also be noted that using a weld filler that is too dissimilar to the metals being joined can also result in galvanic corrosion at the weld site.

3: Transplanting of Plain Iron or Steel onto Stainless Steels

In some applications, particulate residue from a plain steel or iron workpiece may be transferred onto the surface of a stainless steel part or basket. These plain iron or steel particles can disrupt the protective oxide layer of a stainless steel workpiece—ruining its corrosion resistance so that it starts to rust.
The difference between this and the bimetallic corrosion problem listed above is that in this case, the contact between the dissimilar metals is purely accidental and typically without the manufacturer’s knowledge.
A common reason why plain steel or iron residue gets transplanted onto a stainless steel part or workpiece is that equipment used to process one type of material may be used for the other without being properly cleaned between batches.
For example, say a wire bending robot was used to bend plain iron wires for several hours, then immediately used to bend stainless steel wires. Some iron particles would likely be left behind on the bending robot’s manipulators, which could then be transferred to the stainless steel wires being bent.
To prevent the transplanting of plain steel or iron (or any other metals) to stainless steel workpieces, it’s important to thoroughly clean and prepare equipment when changing over to new material. Some equipment, such as steel brushes, should never be shared between different metal types.

4: Applying Temperature Extremes to Stainless Steel

Stainless steel alloys typically have a very high melting point (typically well in excess of 1,200˚F). However, while the metal doesn’t melt at high temperatures, it may experience other changes that affect its ability to resist corrosion.
For example, scaling is a common problem with stainless steel alloys when they’re exposed to extreme temperatures (such as those used in many heat treatment/annealing processes). When scales form on hot metal, the flaky leftover material can cause bimetallic corrosion since the scales have a different composition from the base metal.
Additionally, temperature extremes can cause exposed stainless steel alloys to lose their protective oxide layer for a time, increasing the risk of corrosion until the oxide layer can re-form.
To prevent corrosion from scaling or other issues caused by temperature extremes, it’s important to check the recommended operating temperatures for any given stainless steel to see if the temperatures used in your manufacturing processes exceed those limits. This is part of the reason why Marlin’s engineering team always asks clients about their process’s temperatures prior to designing any custom wire basket or sheet metal form.

5: Unaccounted-for Environmental Factors

There are many cases where a manufacturer can make a custom stainless steel wire basket or tray perfectly to specification, only for it to corrode because of some previously unaccounted-for environmental factor. The presence of salt and moisture in the air because of a factory’s coastal location is one example of an environmental factor that might be missed in a design document.
When selecting stainless steel to use for making any custom wire or sheet metal form, it’s important to consider as many environmental factors as possible. This helps to ensure that the stainless steel basket, tray, or part will resist corrosion for as long as possible, rather than rusting right away.

Why Use Stainless Steel for Your Custom Wire Forms?​

Stainless steel is often able to offer the ideal combination of strength, corrosion resistance, and temperature tolerance to accommodate a wide variety of manufacturing applications like:
  • Materials handling
  • Ultrasonic parts cleaning
  • Medical or food equipment sterilization
  • Parts finishing processes
These are just a few of the applications that a custom wire basket made from stainless steel can be used for. Of course, the specific type of stainless steel used will depend on the exact nature of the process. Some variations of stainless steel work better for certain applications than others.
For example, grade 316 stainless steel is often preferred for applications where contact with salt or other chlorides is common because it is resistant to pitting corrosion caused by salt. Meanwhile, some prefer hardened and stress relieved grade 430 stainless steel for its incredibly high tensile strength. Grade 304 stainless steel, on the other hand, is widely useful for a variety of applications, making it one of the most commonly used stainless steel grades in all sorts of industries.
Need help picking the right type of stainless steel for your custom wire basket? Marlin Steel’s engineers have years of experience in helping manufacturers build the best steel wire baskets for their manufacturing needs. Reach out to the Marlin team to discuss your manufacturing process and your stainless steel needs.
Marlin Steel's Stainless Steel Properties Sheet
 
Last edited:
  • Informative
Reactions: CyberGus

AquaY

Supporting Member
Supporting Member
May 30, 2021
479
1,559
Long Island NY
Strange thread to post.
Seems strange to be concerned about corrosion from the tool building the piece. I put an aluminum pan in my stainless steel sink and it didn‘t corrode immediately.
Now I f I used Stainless steel bolts on my aluminum hull boat that could be a problem. Eventually.
 

OakvilleMYP

Member
Jun 11, 2020
296
111
Oakville, ON
The 6,000-ton die-casting machine currently being used for Model Y/3 is using aluminum for its casting.

My concern, hopefully, yours too, the 8,000-ton die-casting machine schedule to be used for the Cybertruck is also using aluminum for its castings.

The main concern is, aluminum and stainless steel parts will be assembled together.
You shouldn't use Stainless Steel and Aluminum Together - it causes Galvanic Corrosion.

(Galvanic corrosion is the transfer of electrons from one material (anode) to another (cathode).

  • Anode – material that is positively charged, electrons leave this material
  • Cathode – material that is negatively charged, electrons enter this material
  • Electrolyte – liquid that aids in the process of electron transfer
  • Corrosion/corrode – Destroy or weaken metal gradually
Galvanic corrosion occurs when two materials (an anode and a cathode) come into contact with each other and an electrolyte. Electrolytes can be environmental factors such as humidity or rainwater. When these factors come into play, electron transfer will begin to occur. Depending on the level of resistance in an electrolyte, this transfer can happen much faster. This is why saltwater, an electrolyte with very low resistance, is a common factor when considering what product to use. Due to this, it is incredibly important to consider what material you are going to use in an environment. When working with a marine, saltwater environment, you even need to consider the type of stainless steel you are using.

There are multiple kinds of rust that can occur during the oxidization process.

How Can Galvanic Corrosion be stopped?
There are a few steps you can take if you MUST use these materials together.

  1. Add an insulator between the two materials so they no longer connect. Without that connection, the transfer of electrons cannot occur. Well Nuts are a commonly used fastener to help separate materials that can suffer from galvanic corrosion.
  2. Use materials with the same potential. Metals with the same corrosion resistance are typically ok to use together.
  3. If you are in a situation where only one of the materials will come into contact with an electrolyte then the transfer of electrons will not occur.
  4. If there is a coating on the cathode it can prevent the transfer through increased resistance.
  5. Consider your environment before installing. Choose materials that will work for your environment.
  6. Coat or paint your assembly (completely) so that the electrolyte cannot make contact with the materials
  7. Use neoprene EPDM or bonding washers as a barrier in between the metals.
Just an FYI, for the engineers/production staff, to perform during the manufacture of this product.


Source

There is no issue using aluminum with SS.
 

OakvilleMYP

Member
Jun 11, 2020
296
111
Oakville, ON
Strange thread to post.
Seems strange to be concerned about corrosion from the tool building the piece. I put an aluminum pan in my stainless steel sink and it didn‘t corrode immediately.
Now I f I used Stainless steel bolts on my aluminum hull boat that could be a problem. Eventually.
Nope, will not be a problem, you are likely using all kinds of SS fasteners on your aluminum hull boat now with no issue.
 

NY_Rob

Member
Feb 13, 2020
841
926
Long Island
^ I was about to mention that my 2015 Evinrude E-TEC outboard motor has a large mix of aluminum and Stainless Steel... It's exposed to salt water pretty much every weekend over the summer (then flushed/rinsed with fresh water at home) and shows zero signs of corrosion in six years of service. It quite literally looks as good as the day I purchased it in 2015. It all depends on the quality of the materials used.. good quality stainless and good aluminum have no problem mating together, use crap versions of each... you will get rust & corrosion.
 

cybertrucker

Member
Dec 15, 2019
32
10
Texas
The 6,000-ton die-casting machine currently being used for Model Y/3 is using aluminum for its casting.

My concern, hopefully, yours too, the 8,000-ton die-casting machine schedule to be used for the Cybertruck is also using aluminum for its castings.

The main concern is, aluminum and stainless steel parts will be assembled together.
You shouldn't use Stainless Steel and Aluminum Together - it causes Galvanic Corrosion.

(Galvanic corrosion is the transfer of electrons from one material (anode) to another (cathode).

  • Anode – material that is positively charged, electrons leave this material
  • Cathode – material that is negatively charged, electrons enter this material
  • Electrolyte – liquid that aids in the process of electron transfer
  • Corrosion/corrode – Destroy or weaken metal gradually
Galvanic corrosion occurs when two materials (an anode and a cathode) come into contact with each other and an electrolyte. Electrolytes can be environmental factors such as humidity or rainwater. When these factors come into play, electron transfer will begin to occur. Depending on the level of resistance in an electrolyte, this transfer can happen much faster. This is why saltwater, an electrolyte with very low resistance, is a common factor when considering what product to use. Due to this, it is incredibly important to consider what material you are going to use in an environment. When working with a marine, saltwater environment, you even need to consider the type of stainless steel you are using.

There are multiple kinds of rust that can occur during the oxidization process.

How Can Galvanic Corrosion be stopped?
There are a few steps you can take if you MUST use these materials together.

  1. Add an insulator between the two materials so they no longer connect. Without that connection, the transfer of electrons cannot occur. Well Nuts are a commonly used fastener to help separate materials that can suffer from galvanic corrosion.
  2. Use materials with the same potential. Metals with the same corrosion resistance are typically ok to use together.
  3. If you are in a situation where only one of the materials will come into contact with an electrolyte then the transfer of electrons will not occur.
  4. If there is a coating on the cathode it can prevent the transfer through increased resistance.
  5. Consider your environment before installing. Choose materials that will work for your environment.
  6. Coat or paint your assembly (completely) so that the electrolyte cannot make contact with the materials
  7. Use neoprene EPDM or bonding washers as a barrier in between the metals.
Just an FYI, for the engineers/production staff, to perform during the manufacture of this product.


Source
Very weird flex / post.

Do you have a point? Or a suggestion on how Tesla should be doing this?
 

hridge2020

Member
Apr 18, 2019
328
328
Central California
Very weird flex / post.

Do you have a point? Or a suggestion on how Tesla should be doing this?
Its just a information for people that aren't aware what's going on during manufacture processes.

And if you happen to see a bunch of sealant inbetween the two different metals...

and the vehicle isn't just being made out of just stainless steel..
 

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