If Tesla wants to compete with $100K mainstream buyers then.....

[MelvinLee]

As for Tesla’s service it is terrible now. It was amazing when they first started and continued that way for years. Today it should not even be considered service cause just getting an actual person on the phone to talk to is extremely frustrating.
I’m not saying the employees are personally terrible people but overall Tesla’s service involves going through an automated machine that takes forever, only to bring you to a message machine cause no one answered. A simple automated operator with two options, press 1 service or press 2 for sales would suffice. Than being directed to one or the other where an actual human being is on the line to speak to is how it usually works.

 

[whitex]

... as well as FUSC which transfers to the next buyer.

Ha, ha, ha! You obviously haven't read Tesla's latest money saving interpretation and new amendments of FUSC terms. Your car loses FUSC as soon as you trade it in, to Tesla or any other dealer, which includes selling it through consignment. It might transfer if you do a direct transfer to the next owner, that owner is not a company, and even then, it will probably end. Elon reminded us that he likes minimalism when it comes to everything, especially costs, so "next owner" literally means the very next holder of the title, even temporary, the next one after that doesn't get FUSC. Tesla strips FUSC on pre-2017 car on sale through any 3rd party even if they don't own the car in the process (so not just CPO).

No more free unlimited supercharging for Tesla used vehicles

 

[SO16]

Ha, ha, ha! You obviously haven't read Tesla's latest money saving interpretation and new amendments of FUSC terms. Your car loses FUSC as soon as you trade it in, to Tesla or any other dealer, which includes selling it through consignment. It might transfer if you do a direct transfer to the next owner, that owner is not a company, and even then, it will probably end. Elon reminded us that he likes minimalism when it comes to everything, especially costs, so "next owner" literally means the very next holder of the title, even temporary, the next one after that doesn't get FUSC. Tesla strips FUSC on pre-2017 car on sale through any 3rd party even if they don't own the car in the process (so not just CPO).

No more free unlimited supercharging for Tesla used vehicles

Hahaha.... I do private sales.... hahaha

 

[VT_EE]

Who can guess what's in the mind of the crazy genius?
He produced a £50K car and sold it for 100K. He now makes a £35K car and sells it for £50K. I suspect he wants to make a £20K car and sell it for £30K following on the principle of building a mass car manufacturing system akin for the iphone type market where you make a £200 product and sell it for £1000 because you've created a gullible consumer base that follows fashion and your hype.
He's shot himself in the foot in some respects with everything being screen dependant and minimalist - it works IF you actually get real FSD working but reality is that except of motorway driving that screen is a liabilty compared to tactile buttons where you don't have to take eyes off road and for the practical aspect having almost zero storage is fine for a taxi (so folk don't leave stuff behind) but not so practical for an owner.
The trouble with wow-factors on a car is that they lose their gloss to an owner after the initial playtime (yeah, I got sucked in too) and now I'd be happier with function and reliability and robust build quality.
I totally agree he needs to bring back customer service but that doesn't work with a 'build 'em cheap and pile 'em high' philosophy.

I spend more time looking at buttons on my Mazda and Toyota then on the my Model 3 screen. Once you get used to the screen, it isn't a problem.

 

[VT_EE]

Hi Spidey423,
You make many good points. We may be outliers, but I agree with everything you wrote. My primary frustration is the deterioration of service. When I buy a $100,000 automobile, I expect to be able to talk to a service coordinator when I have a problem. It's now been several days and five phone calls with no call back on a problem. The electronics and mechanicals make a great driving car, but as you noted, the support and choices of minor things (like a functional heater!) downgrade the entire line.

Same applies to a $15000 vehicle. Customer service is an area that desperately needs attention.

 

[whitex]

Hahaha.... I do private sales.... hahaha

It still transfers only to the next owner, but the next one after that won't get it, hence no resale value to the owner you are selling it to, hence lower value of your car. That, and give it time, given all the other innovative ways Elon has been interpreting terms like warranty (e.g. see yellow screen threads), by the time you sell it, FUSC may not be transferable at all.

 

[SO16]

It still transfers only to the next owner, but the next one after that won't get it, hence no resale value to the owner you are selling it to, hence lower value of your car. That, and give it time, given all the other innovative ways Elon has been interpreting terms like warranty (e.g. see yellow screen threads), by the time you sell it, FUSC may not be transferable at all.

Yes....only to the NEXT owner. A vehicle with free supercharging to that next owner is still worth more than a vehicle that doesn’t have it. So a person would now have more incentive to buy from me than from a 3rd party dealer.

 

[MelvinLee]

Henry Ford did the same thing. He kept reducing his costs and prices until the mass market could afford to purchase his cars. Early buyers paid significantly more then those who bought later.

At one time the Ford Model T represented 55% of the cars in the entire World.

Tesla runs differently than all the other manufacturers. In some ways worse, but in other ways better.

They have set the World standard for electrifying personal transportation.

We cannot compare what Henry Ford did when we have professional analytics, marketing, and employees that graduated with degrees in economics, business, finance, etc. Breaking down every idea that has come before them and all don’t, except one manufacturer (Tesla) that does this today.

 

[whitex]

Yes....only to the NEXT owner. A vehicle with free supercharging to that next owner is still worth more than a vehicle that doesn’t have it. So a person would now have more incentive to buy from me than from a 3rd party dealer.

Yes, but less incentive than if they could sell it with FUSC, which was how everyone understood it before. Also, in a lot of states when you trade in, you get sales tax credit. In my state, that's 10%, so on $50K trade-in, you have to sell it privately above $55K to make any money.

 

[SO16]

Yes, but less incentive than if they could sell it with FUSC, which was how everyone understood it before. Also, in a lot of states when you trade in, you get sales tax credit. In my state, that's 10%, so on $50K trade-in, you have to sell it privately above $55K to make any money.

Not in my state.

 

[Matias]

I think this is the fault in your post. Tesla doesn't consider itself a traditional car company and therefore not "mainstream". While I don't necessarily disagree with you from a typical $100k+ car buyer, Tesla feels it is in a class all its own and the traditional expectations no longer apply.

Tesla may think that its customers don’t need to be able to talk with service people, but if its customers think they need to be, then Tesla is wrong. It is not Tesla who decides this.

 

[Matias]

The data suggests Tesla is competing just fine as it is.
.

Model S and X sales are dropping.

 

[SO16]

Model S and X sales are dropping.

Let’s see how things fare after a full quarter of ravens being produced before making this claim, shall we?

 

[bob_p]

Model S/X sales are dropping for two reasons. First, many current S/X owners likely would have purchased Model 3 if it had been available. Second, the entire auto market is seeing declines in sales. Compared to other vehicles in the S/X price range, Tesla is still doing well with S/X sales.

Tesla needed to lower the price of S/X - because even with the $7500 US tax credit, they were priced higher than other luxury ICEs. I just priced our 2017 S 100D configuration which cost us around $115K in Mar 2017 and now comes in around $90K with the same features (except the sunroof) and has 40 miles more range.

Even if Tesla did a refresh or made interior changes, it's unlikely to have much impact on S/X sales. Tesla's biggest selling points for the S/X is that they are still the only viable long range EVs on the market - which will change at some point, but not yet.

There are a number of things Tesla could do to provide more value for S/X vs. the lower priced 3/Y. Restoring FUSC is a start. They could also add items such as free 4 year/50K mile maintenance, 8 year/100K mile extended warranty, include FSD, separate S/X customer support line, loaners for multi-day service visits, ...

Tesla will continue to add innovations to S/X - such as battery, charging and motor improvements (likely to happen within the next 12 months) and smaller changes. And we're still likely to see some larger interior changes when Tesla is closer to achieving FSD.

 

[tomas]

I love my Model S but if Tesla wants to compete and acquire new buyers in the $100K + market they will need to upgrade their vehicles, product and service. A few examples of things that many mainstream shoppers are looking for that are essentially standard in this price range:

- more dealer and service sites, not fewer. I know Elon thinks he can sell cars on the web sight unseen but people who buy this range of product wants to put their hands on a vehicle and kick the tires. I know this is old school but I personally visited two different dealerships 4 or 5 times.
- service needs to be improved dramatically and a priority. I've known two people ( an X and an S) who have traded in their vehicles because of poor service, and inability to get anyone to resolve the problems or come out to see the vehicles. Personalized service is a must, think about the way Lexus does things.
- S and X need to have a leather interior, not this Pleather/Vinyl crap that is a mark of a cheep car. I know this pisses off the few vegans out there.
- Ventilated seats that have multi contour settings
- Intermittent windshield wipers that really work. For the sake of a couple dollar part instead of trying to rely on software this would be solved.
- They need to quit this schizophrenic pricing schedule. People are hesitant to purchase if they don't know what price tomorrow will bring. ie) FSD was $5K Then 6K then 2K then 6K then 3K
- Paint. They need more colors and the up charge for metallic is ridiculous. Mercedes S560 has 11/13 paints with no charge. Porsche Panamera has 2 basic and 10 metallic for $830.
- Sunroof. I use mine almost every day about 6 months of the year and I live in Michigan.
- Really need to put their efforts into improving the ACC and EAP. My current revision 24.4 is almost dangerous. The phantom braking and slowing when making lane changes has made this feature for me unusable and I drive 2000- 2500 miles a month.
- Video games. While fun, I would prefer to see the programmers assigned to this feature deployed to the ACC and EAP and bring the games out when the software gets sorted out.
- improve the heater for winter driving and efficiency. Maybe a heat pump? Its cold in the great white north
- improve communication. A couple of years ago I could call the 800 number or my service center and get a real person. Now I can't even get anyone to return my phone calls.

Don't get me wrong. My S100D is one of the best cars I have ever owned, but if Tesla wants to stay ahead of the Porsche's, Audi's and Mercedes out there, then there are things they need to do.

I rated this funny because this poster must not realize that until 3 started cannibalizing the S last year, the S WAS the highest selling $100k car. How can you lecture on what it needs to compete when it has won the competition until intentionally ceding market share to its stablemate?? As Musk mentioned on analyst call last month, the S is no longer the focus, so it will slide to niche until Tesla decides to focus on it and update. Until then, the OPs list will get longer. Meanwhile, what are Porsche, MB, BMW, Jag doing to compete? Going electric! Ha ha.

 

[Galve2000]

Meanwhile, what are Porsche, MB, BMW, Jag doing to compete? Going electric! Ha ha.

which begs the question... is the 3 cannibalizing Mercedes "500" series sales the way the S was until the 3 was released?

(or similar offerings from Porsche, Jag, BMW)... b/c for a long time that was the magic of Tesla. it was leading in a segment that no one thought it would compete in.

GM wants to sell trucks and hatchbacks.. but MB wants to sell their big 500 series car... for a long time the S was eating their lunch... i'm not sure this is true of the 3.. but I wonder if it is still the case..

anyone have any idea?

 

[Uncle Paul]

While S and X sales have been droping, I believe it is due to the option of instead buying the very popular, and much less expensive, Model 3.

Not sure how many more S/X would sell if the interior was refreshed, or if the already stunningly beautiful Model S body style was made even more beautiful.

X is still relatively fresh and has just received significant price reductions, enhanced suspension, longer range and upgraded motors/bearings.

Not sure that the car, which already is outselling it's competition, and just recieved the amazing award of car of the decades, would sell with a fresh going over.

Believe that Tesla will just push on, with it's policy of continous improvements, and let those Models find their own Market.

The goal of Tesla is not to sell as many expensive cars as possible, but instead convert as many ICE owners as possible to electrified driving. The Model 3 and Y are perhaps the best venue.

If Elon was only trying to make as much money as possible, I am not sure that being in the ultra competitive automotive manufacturing business is the best way for him to go. Perhaps he is more into changing the world for the better, than making as much money as possible.

 

[BigTonyTones]

I love my Model S but if Tesla wants to compete and acquire new buyers in the $100K + market they will need to upgrade their vehicles, product and service. A few examples of things that many mainstream shoppers are looking for that are essentially standard in this price range:

- more dealer and service sites, not fewer. I know Elon thinks he can sell cars on the web sight unseen but people who buy this range of product wants to put their hands on a vehicle and kick the tires. I know this is old school but I personally visited two different dealerships 4 or 5 times.
- service needs to be improved dramatically and a priority. I've known two people ( an X and an S) who have traded in their vehicles because of poor service, and inability to get anyone to resolve the problems or come out to see the vehicles. Personalized service is a must, think about the way Lexus does things.
- S and X need to have a leather interior, not this Pleather/Vinyl crap that is a mark of a cheep car. I know this pisses off the few vegans out there.
- Ventilated seats that have multi contour settings
- Intermittent windshield wipers that really work. For the sake of a couple dollar part instead of trying to rely on software this would be solved.
- They need to quit this schizophrenic pricing schedule. People are hesitant to purchase if they don't know what price tomorrow will bring. ie) FSD was $5K Then 6K then 2K then 6K then 3K
- Paint. They need more colors and the up charge for metallic is ridiculous. Mercedes S560 has 11/13 paints with no charge. Porsche Panamera has 2 basic and 10 metallic for $830.
- Sunroof. I use mine almost every day about 6 months of the year and I live in Michigan.
- Really need to put their efforts into improving the ACC and EAP. My current revision 24.4 is almost dangerous. The phantom braking and slowing when making lane changes has made this feature for me unusable and I drive 2000- 2500 miles a month.
- Video games. While fun, I would prefer to see the programmers assigned to this feature deployed to the ACC and EAP and bring the games out when the software gets sorted out.
- improve the heater for winter driving and efficiency. Maybe a heat pump? Its cold in the great white north
- improve communication. A couple of years ago I could call the 800 number or my service center and get a real person. Now I can't even get anyone to return my phone calls.

Don't get me wrong. My S100D is one of the best cars I have ever owned, but if Tesla wants to stay ahead of the Porsche's, Audi's and Mercedes out there, then there are things they need to do.

I agree 100% on everyone of your points.

 

[whitex]

I rated this funny because this poster must not realize that until 3 started cannibalizing the S last year, the S WAS the highest selling $100k car.

What you don't realize is that 3 showing up on the market caused the biggest issue with Tesla's today - service deteriorated to the point where many people, myself included, will not buy any Tesla. Long wait times, no loaners, charging $200/hr if they cannot diagnose the problem, no more good will items, reduction if what warranty covers (e.g. screen discoloration), etc, etc. So, it's not that 3 is causing people to choose the 3 over the, it's the fact that 3 is causing service problems which causes people to choose non-Tesla.

 

[sorka]

I love my Model S but if Tesla wants to compete and acquire new buyers in the $100K + market they will need to upgrade their vehicles, product and service. A few examples of things that many mainstream shoppers are looking for that are essentially standard in this price range:

- more dealer and service sites, not fewer. I know Elon thinks he can sell cars on the web sight unseen but people who buy this range of product wants to put their hands on a vehicle and kick the tires. I know this is old school but I personally visited two different dealerships 4 or 5 times.
- service needs to be improved dramatically and a priority. I've known two people ( an X and an S) who have traded in their vehicles because of poor service, and inability to get anyone to resolve the problems or come out to see the vehicles. Personalized service is a must, think about the way Lexus does things.
- S and X need to have a leather interior, not this Pleather/Vinyl crap that is a mark of a cheep car. I know this pisses off the few vegans out there.
- Ventilated seats that have multi contour settings
- Intermittent windshield wipers that really work. For the sake of a couple dollar part instead of trying to rely on software this would be solved.
- They need to quit this schizophrenic pricing schedule. People are hesitant to purchase if they don't know what price tomorrow will bring. ie) FSD was $5K Then 6K then 2K then 6K then 3K
- Paint. They need more colors and the up charge for metallic is ridiculous. Mercedes S560 has 11/13 paints with no charge. Porsche Panamera has 2 basic and 10 metallic for $830.
- Sunroof. I use mine almost every day about 6 months of the year and I live in Michigan.
- Really need to put their efforts into improving the ACC and EAP. My current revision 24.4 is almost dangerous. The phantom braking and slowing when making lane changes has made this feature for me unusable and I drive 2000- 2500 miles a month.
- Video games. While fun, I would prefer to see the programmers assigned to this feature deployed to the ACC and EAP and bring the games out when the software gets sorted out.
- improve the heater for winter driving and efficiency. Maybe a heat pump? Its cold in the great white north
- improve communication. A couple of years ago I could call the 800 number or my service center and get a real person. Now I can't even get anyone to return my phone calls.

Don't get me wrong. My S100D is one of the best cars I have ever owned, but if Tesla wants to stay ahead of the Porsche's, Audi's and Mercedes out there, then there are things they need to do.

I'd settle for them just standing by their warranty and not downloading software updates that turn our S85s in the s60s.