If there was a 100 mile range upgrade what would you be willing to pay?

[Stanwood Steve]

For me, I'd be willing to pay an additional $5k for the added range. I've had a few "white knuckle" trips where it was close as far as making it to the next Supercharger due to cold conditions and a headwind. As I get older, "peace of mind" is worth more than when I was in my youth and living on the edge was more exciting.

 

[PJFW8]

I'd be willing to pay $0.00

If a trip is 400 miles I'm only gonna need to stop at an SC long enough to use the bathroom and/or get a drink, which I'd do anyway on a trip that long, so no benefit to paying for more range.

If a trip is 500 miles I'm gonna need to stop at an SC long enough to eat one real meal- which I'd do anyway on a trip that long, so no benefit to paying for more range.

if a trip is much more than 500 miles I'm gonna fly so more range on the car I'm leaving home won't help me.


Plus, for the 99% of the time I was NOT taking roadtrips I'd be hauling around useless extra battery weight (assuming the new pack is heavier).


Now if there was some performance BENEFIT (quicker speeds due to batteries able to discharge higher/faster, lighter battery pack, etc) I might be willing to pay something for THAT depending on the improvement offered.

I agree. Only benefit for me would be easier winter travel when I visit the midwest. Nice to have more range, but for the slight inconvenience (an extra stop on very cold days once or twice a year) it would not be worth a substantial cost.

 

[Atari2600]

I'll wait and replace my remaining ICE car with a Tesla with a heat pump and newer battery tech. I think we could see 400 mile range in a Y in under 5 years at current prices provided new battery tech is coming soon.

Still working on the wife to get a 500 mile range cybertruck. Still failing.

 

[Yanquetino]

If such a range boost were offered, I probably wouldn't opt for it. After 2 years and 34K miles, our Model 3's battery still has about ~99% of capacity, good for over 300 miles from a full charge. We've found on numerous road trips that we rarely drive more than 200 miles at a time before our own "tanks" need emptying, and we've always been able to find a Supercharger within that distance. The only reason I can see to upgrade to more range would be to drive all the way across more isolated routes that still don't have Superchargers —like across the middle of Nevada.

 

[Black306]

I believe the SR+ has the same number of modules, 4? The obvious way is to rewire and add interconnects so when charging they are electrically parallel as usual. When driving the interconnects switch the circuit layout so you have two sets of 2 modules in parallel, and the two sets are serial. Boom, V is doubled.

However this and all the other wiring and software tweaks and QA on the changes are far more work than that simplification, though. For example DU would need to be re-engineered from nearly the bottom up, electrically, electro-magnetically, and thus to an extent mechanically and definitely heavily on the controlling software, too. Look how long it took Tesla to tune the current DUs to their current state, years after shipping started.

SR/SR+ have the same number of modules but the groups of cells have fewer cells in parallel; 31 vs 46 for the LR/P. Only reason I’m not suggesting a swap to a SR battery in a Performance is cause the interconnects are probably not sized accordingly. Otherwise, the battery should work.

I agree there would need to be some software updates to deal with things like proper charging of the battery and accuracy of range estimation. I disagree there would need to be a major overhaul of the DUs.

 

[TX_M3P+]

If Tesla offered an upgrade for incremental range, like $2k per 100 mile increase, with a max of 600 miles total range, I'd pay $6k to get an extra 300 miles. However, I would not pay $5k to only get 100 miles of additional range. $2k per 100 miles of additional range is what I would be willing to pay. Since additional range at the 100 mile incremental amount is not likely to happen with the current battery, I agree more with the notion that additional superchargers would be the most ideal solution.

 

[jesusbowls]

$0. If I'm going on a road trip and don't want to deal with SC'ing, I'll just rent a car.

 

[M3tex]

I have a RWD LR Model 3 and I often make trips that are more than 300 miles. Traveling at 80 to 85 mph (Texas roads with 75 mph speed limits) and with the AC on means that of course I must stop at a SC. Stopping to charge isn't a big deal because I would stop to rest anyway but it made me think about things. Our Prius can make the same trips without any stops to refuel and I can rest anywhere along the route I want and for a shorter duration than it takes to recharge. Wouldn't it be nice then if my Tesla didn't require refueling in a 300 mile trip just like my Prius? Yes I could slow down or hyper-mile but that's not the point.

Anyway this made me wonder how much it would it be worth to me to get some sort of range upgrade? What would I be willing to pay if in the future there was some sort of battery swap upgrade or whatever (not that I believe such an upgrade will ever be available)? Would a 100 mile range increase be worth $2K, $5K, $7K (about the same price of FSD), or even $10K?

I think if that upgrade was available to me today I'd be willing to pay up to $7K, how about you?

Your Prius can travel at 80-85 mph? News!

 

[SammichLover]

I disagree there would need to be a major overhaul of the DUs.

Then you're a candidate for a Darwin Award. You can't double V, route it through the same device, and call it a day without BAD THINGS happening.

Actually, I just thought this over a moment and *facepalm* I'm wrong about being able to get more power out. By doubling series length of each string you halve the number of parallel strings, so you halve the maximum current. D'oh. You might get some efficiencies out of doubling V but you just won't get Performance power out of any pack significantly smaller than the LR pack....without a large step in battery technology.

Basically, you're limited by the number of cells total because the power each cell can provide has a maximum and the power total can only approach the sum of the power of the cells.

 

[Austindude]

Your Prius can travel at 80-85 mph? News!

Guessing you were just kidding but yes our Prius can travel at that speed. When my wife, who has a lead foot, is driving it will go even faster!

 

[RC2785]

5K and below sure. Anything above 5K is a hard no.

 

[Black306]

Then you're a candidate for a Darwin Award. You can't double V, route it through the same device, and call it a day without BAD THINGS happening.

Show me where I said to double voltage. I said run fewer cells in parallel; ie maintain nominal voltage and reduce Ahs.

Actually, I just thought this over a moment and *facepalm* I'm wrong about being able to get more power out. By doubling series length of each string you halve the number of parallel strings, so you halve the maximum current. D'oh. You might get some efficiencies out of doubling V but you just won't get Performance power out of any pack significantly smaller than the LR pack....without a large step in battery technology.

Basically, you're limited by the number of cells total because the power each cell can provide has a maximum and the power total can only approach the sum of the power of the cells.

I think what you’re getting at is deliverable amps. Yes, peak deliverable amps will be reduced. Haven’t seen Tesla’s 2170 battery specs (C rating), so I can’t say whether or not a reduction of cells will be able to keep up with peak demands. My hunch is that they can. Point is moot anyway; Tesla isn’t going to build such a car.

To respect the OP and the thread topic, we can continue to discuss in a new thread or in private.

 

[SammichLover]

Show me where I said to double voltage. I said run fewer cells in parallel; ie maintain nominal voltage and reduce Ahs.

Then enjoy going head-to-head against a Prius.

I think what you’re getting at is deliverable amps.

No, power. Volts * amps (AKA current) = power (kW, or horsepower if you like).

And the Performance is almost certainly very near their maximum "safe" discharge rates right now (otherwise Tesla shipped a whole lot more hardware capability than we've paid for). With a lower cell count than in the LR Pack you'll be limited to less ability to acceleration. You could get maybe a little more out but the more you try extract the more damage it'll do to the cells, in an exponential fashion vs discharge rate.

 

[android04]

I might be willing to pay $5000 for an added 100 miles of range on my LR RWD. I would only need that range a handful of times per year though, when pulling a trailer with my Model 3 on a 2 hr 45 min trip (about 150 miles). Currently, it looks like I would barely make the trip with a trailer if I charge to 100% and am willing to get really low on charge, but instead I stop at 1/3 of the way and Supercharge for a little bit. It's somewhat inconvenient to Supercharge with a trailer when none of these are designed to pull into with a trailer though. I have to unhook the trailer in a parking space right across from the Superchargers, tether it to a light post so it doesn't roll away (and making sure the weight on it is biased towards the front to keep it from tilting up on it's rear end).

 

[drtimhill]

I'll wait for Maxwell cells to be mainstream and when my 3 are worn out. (200K miles?) By then, there will be increased range.

This is pure speculation of course, but my guess is we will see some sort of hybrid arrangement where the Maxwell tech is used as a front-end between the motors and the (regular) battery. In this model, the Maxwell is an "energy buffer", and this would allow regen energy to be held in the Maxwell, thus removing the wear and tear of the mini change/discharge on the main battery (well, not totally removing it, but probably eliminating something like 90% of it). In addition, the performance guys should be able to get more burst power from the two power sources combined. This would mean far longer battery life, and higher burst power.

 

[SammichLover]

This is pure speculation of course, but my guess is we will see some sort of hybrid arrangement where the Maxwell tech is used as a front-end between the motors and the (regular) battery. In this model, the Maxwell is an "energy buffer", and this would allow regen energy to be held in the Maxwell, thus removing the wear and tear of the mini change/discharge on the main battery (well, not totally removing it, but probably eliminating something like 90% of it). In addition, the performance guys should be able to get more burst power from the two power sources combined. This would mean far longer battery life, and higher burst power.

Good chance it could also increase regen availability in cold temperatures. Even when your battery isn't nearly as ready to accepts charging near normally rates the motors could generate current into the capacitor-like Maxwell gear, as long as you didn't exceed the buffer's capacity.

 

[Yanquetino]

I would only need that range a handful of times per year though, when pulling a trailer with my Model 3 on a 2 hr 45 min trip (about 150 miles).

Now THAT makes sense! My tiny trailer reduces my range by only ~20%, but most trailers are heavier and larger.

It's somewhat inconvenient to Supercharge with a trailer when none of these are designed to pull into with a trailer though.

TRUE! I've seen some Supercharger stations that are trailer-friendly, but by far most require backing into the parking space. I sure hope this Tesla extension cord will eventually make it to market, as it might allow those who are towing trailers to use almost any Supercharger by pulling in nose first.

 

[drtimhill]

Now THAT makes sense! My tiny trailer reduces my range by only ~20%, but most trailers are heavier and larger.

TRUE! I've seen some Supercharger stations that are trailer-friendly, but by far most require backing into the parking space. I sure hope this Tesla extension cord will eventually make it to market, as it might allow those who are towing trailers to use almost any Supercharger by pulling in nose first.

The web site doesnt specify max charge rate, or even if its anything except an extension for home chargers. There is a reason the cable on the supercharger is short, you are moving ferocious amounts of power through it when charging, especially the new V3 chargers .. there is no way you should use any kind of 3rd party "extension" with that kind of power.

 

[Yanquetino]

there is no way you should use any kind of 3rd party "extension" with that kind of power

Not unless it is thoroughly tested and certified to be able to handle it, that's true. We can only see what the specs are when it is released —if ever!

 

[CharleyBC]

I'm quite content with our 300+ miles. So I wouldn't pay much for the 100-mile hypothetical upgrade. I'm sure in parts and labor it'd be worth more than $1K, but it wouldn't be worth more than that to me.

Now, am I glad we got LR and not SR? You betcha!