I'm picking up my MSLR 2023 this Friday, and I'm absolutely having second thoughts now.

[Moe s3xy]

I'm feeling very hesitant about my decision to purchase a Tesla after quite some time of being solid about it.

Unfortunately, it seems that the car I'm getting doesn't come with USS, and after some research, I'm concerned about the Tesla Vision experience.

Additionally, I've found out that there are two versions of Tesla, one with HW4 and one with HW3 and I have no clue which version I have. I don't want to pay a premium only to be shafted with old, potentially not upgradable hardware.

This left me wondering if there is a way to know for sure if my MSLR has HW4 or HW3 via the VIN or another measure?

 

[Jangy]

Your feelings about USS are exaggerated. I've had both and the difference in user experience between the two is MINIMAL. If anything, I prefer the vision.

On HW4 or 3, there will always be new updates coming. You either prefer leading edge tech (TESLA) or not. That is up to you. It isn't like the competition has gotten past HW3.

 

[BitJam]

Welcome!

You can tell which HW version it has when you're in the car by going to Controls --> Software --> Additional Vehicle Information. If you are picking up the car from the Tesla Center in Abu Dhabi then you can check this yourself before you accept delivery.

OTOH, I wouldn't worry about it. Tesla is constantly improving their cars. When I bought mine two years ago some people were thinking about delaying their purchase in hopes of getting 4680 batteries. Others wanted to wait hoping the new US tax incentive bill would pass soon.

If you wait then you will probably be able to get something better, perhaps for less money. This was true with computers and phones for many years. But if you wait then there will probably be something even better on the horizon that you can wait for.

Unless you have a tight garage or some other dire need for USS then I wouldn't worry about them. Likewise, I wouldn't worry about HW3 vs. HW4. I use basic Autopilot with HW3 for about 80% of my driving here in rural New Mexico. I think it's great! HW4 has roughly twice the power of HW3 which I found disappointing since it's not even keeping up with Moore's Law. This is not going to make or break Full Self Driving.

IMO buying the car because it has HW4 is letting the tail wag the dog. Let's say the choice is between buying now or buying in one year. Yes, the car will probably be better in a year and it might cost less. But you could use this reasoning to postpone buying indefinitely. The tradeoff is between enjoying a great car for this year versus getting a slightly better car a year from now.

It's totally up to you. The USS are probably not coming back. If they are important to you then you will need to either get a used Tesla or go with a different brand. Some people with the latest version of FSD beta have shown the Tesla Vision replacement for USS so it's not totally vapor-ware. If having the latest and greatest is important to you then sure, make sure the car has HW4.

A Model S is a luxury item. If it doesn't make you happy, for whatever reason, then don't buy it. There are tons of "waiting room" threads here where plenty of people express pre-purchase jitters. It's normal. But most people soon forge about their hesitations after they get the car because they are such a blast. OTOH a few people turn around a sell their car after a couple of months.

Perfect is the enemy of good. Tesla is constantly improving their cars but you are not getting shafted buying a car today. They are great cars with or without HW4 and with or without USS. But if you feel you're getting shafted then don't buy it. Simple.

 

[DayTrippin]

If I had a choice between HW3 and 4, I'd take 4. The USS though would be a bigger issue for me. I have was in a 3 and S without USS and relying on TeslaVision. I'll be as kind as I can be and say it is at best, a work in progress. Who knows if it will ever get to be as good as having USS installed. Removing the USS has clearly been a big step backwards.

There are things Vision can't do that the USS can. No matter how people want to spin it, I'm not drinking Elon's Kool-Aid on this one. If it were me, first thing I'd do with a car without USS is mount a front camera in the nose somewhere. If something changes, out of its line of sight, it can't see it. Simple as that. Yet another stupid idea on Tesla's part to just save a few pennies on a 100k car.

 

[Jangy]

If I had a choice between HW3 and 4, I'd take 4. The USS though would be a bigger issue for me. I have was in a 3 and S without USS and relying on TeslaVision. I'll be as kind as I can be and say it is at best, a work in progress. Who knows if it will ever get to be as good as having USS installed. Removing the USS has clearly been a big step backwards.

There are things Vision can't do that the USS can. No matter how people want to spin it, I'm not drinking Elon's Kool-Aid on this one. If it were me, first thing I'd do with a car without USS is mount a front camera in the nose somewhere. If something changes, out of its line of sight, it can't see it. Simple as that. Yet another stupid idea on Tesla's part to just save a few pennies on a 100k car.

That's a very biased statement. I have the new vision parking aid. What exactly do you claim that the USS does that Vision can't? Beyond your theorhetical situation where a wall moves locations after it goes out of sight (literally impossible). The USS setup didn't even hit an audible alarm until tooo late whereas the vision is truly 360 degree and has a very audible and active alarm. That doesn't mean that there isn't a good reason to keep USS (I'd prefer it). But your post is funny. HW4 is the new tech here, NOT USS

 

[AW9nineteen]

That's a very biased statement. I have the new vision parking aid. What exactly do you claim that the USS does that Vision can't? Beyond your theorhetical situation where a wall moves locations after it goes out of sight (literally impossible). The USS setup didn't even hit an audible alarm until tooo late whereas the vision is truly 360 degree and has a very audible and active alarm. That doesn't mean that there isn't a good reason to keep USS (I'd prefer it). But your post is funny. HW4 is the new tech here, NOT USS

Eh. They 1000% should have out a camera near the T in the nose of the car. Major oversight. Imo it’s as important as a dash cam and backup cam.

 

[TLLMRRJ]

I'd be more worried about the potential front axle vibrations that Tesla can't/doesn't care to fixed, the panel gaps that can be very hard to fix and Tesla often refuses to fix, the heavily distorted windshields that Tesla won't fix, and if they agreed to try, would just be another distorted windshield, odd gear noises from the drive units that Tesla says is normal, but shouldn't be normal, the horrible service experience in general that makes you feel like you don't really have a warranty on a $100K new car, and the massive depreciation, but I guess no USS is the bigger issue.

 

[AW9nineteen]

I'd be more worried about the potential front axle vibrations that Tesla can't/doesn't care to fixed, the panel gaps that can be very hard to fix and Tesla often refuses to fix, the heavily distorted windshields that Tesla won't fix, and if they agreed to try, would just be another distorted windshield, odd gear noises from the drive units that Tesla says is normal, but shouldn't be normal, the horrible service experience in general that makes you feel like you don't really have a warranty on a $100K new car, and the massive depreciation, but I guess no USS is the bigger issue.

Do all of the cars have that front axle issue? I know my MS does, but does it run the entire lineup?

 

[Moe s3xy]

Thanks for the input. Staying away from anything Tesla and will never consider buying an electric vehicle again. Called Tesla and they confirmed it was Oct 2022 manufactured and with AP3/HW3.

Going to get myself a Ford Raptor R out of spite. (serious)

 

[cappy1]

You can tell which HW version it has when you're in the car by going to Controls --> Software --> Additional Vehicle Information.

I have a new Model S delivered on 3/31 and see no mention of HW and nothing coded other than Cel IMEI and WiFi MAC Address.

 

[DayTrippin]

That's a very biased statement. I have the new vision parking aid. What exactly do you claim that the USS does that Vision can't? Beyond your theorhetical situation where a wall moves locations after it goes out of sight (literally impossible). The USS setup didn't even hit an audible alarm until tooo late whereas the vision is truly 360 degree and has a very audible and active alarm. That doesn't mean that there isn't a good reason to keep USS (I'd prefer it). But your post is funny. HW4 is the new tech here, NOT USS

I'll give you another common use case where the TV (TeslaVision) replacement for USS is vastly inferior. You parallel park your car. TV maybe worked well enough to do that. Now the car in front of you pulls away and a new one replaces it. How is TV going to accurately determine the distance when you go to pull out when it was sleeping while you were gone? Highly unlikely the cameras were feeding input into the system while you were away as that is a fair amount of drain. The USS has a better field of view immediately in front of the car. That is clearly better than what the cameras had. If Tesla hadn't half-assed some of these things just to save a few pennies, it would be different. The current camera position most likely was determined to use in conjunction with radar/USS/etc., not to just stand alone on its own. To save more $$$, Tesla just used the camera location they had whether it was sub-optimal or not.

FYI - I don't give a rat's butt about how new technology is. I care about how well it works. Just like when TV replaced the 3/Y cars with radar to use the new fancy TV with only use cameras. I can't tell you what a clustertruck that was. It was bad enough I sold my Y as phantom braking was such an issue. My 3 (without radar) is better than my Y ever was but still nowhere near as good as my S (with radar enabled).

I'd take a car with HW4 and USS over a car with just HW4 and no USS. Tesla so often overpromises and underdelivers. Or they rip out something without having its replacement even remotely ready to go. The radar removal without a replacement was a total debacle. Just like how they eff'd people by removing USS without even having its replacement ready. From my experience the first iteration of TV to replace the USS is better than nothing but still has a long ways to go.

 

[DayTrippin]

Thanks for the input. Staying away from anything Tesla and will never consider buying an electric vehicle again. Called Tesla and they confirmed it was Oct 2022 manufactured and with AP3/HW3.

Going to get myself a Ford Raptor R out of spite. (serious)

If I were to replace my S, that is the config I would look for, for now anyway. It should still have USS, and you'll have the upgraded lights, most likely the adjustable screen, and could possibly have radar as well. I think that was peak evolution until they get HW4 sorted out and maybe add LIDAR or some sort of radar down the road.

Tesla gets a lot of things right but for me a lot is trending in the wrong direction. I am very happy with my S and 3 but the yoke sucked for me and removing the USS was a huge blunder. No axle or vibration issues and has been very trouble free after my delivery issues were resolved.

Good luck with the Raptor. Get the V8 version if possible.

 

[drunkenbuda]

You should go buy an Audi E-Tron GT. I'm tired of seeing Model S on the road, I want to see less of it and more of other cars.

 

[cappy1]

I'd take a car with HW4 and USS over a car with just HW4 and no USS.

If ever activated, maybe HW4 with radar will not be so bad? See here:

SSZT112 Technical article | TI.com

How Radar Outmaneuvers Ultrasonic in Automated Parking

e2e.ti.com

 

[TLLMRRJ]

Do all of the cars have that front axle issue? I know my MS does, but does it run the entire lineup?

Seems to just be Model S and X. Not sure why though.

 

[WilliamG]

That's a very biased statement. I have the new vision parking aid. What exactly do you claim that the USS does that Vision can't? Beyond your theorhetical situation where a wall moves locations after it goes out of sight (literally impossible). The USS setup didn't even hit an audible alarm until tooo late whereas the vision is truly 360 degree and has a very audible and active alarm. That doesn't mean that there isn't a good reason to keep USS (I'd prefer it). But your post is funny. HW4 is the new tech here, NOT USS

Vision currently sucks. It’s not even a question. It’s a fact.

 

[NeuroRad]

Good for you on not getting it.

The absence of a 360 camera is such a massive deficiency for me, now they remove USS.

Model S is not a luxury car.

Given the performance I do think it’s a good value at current pricing.

 

[whitex]

Your feelings about USS are exaggerated. I've had both and the difference in user experience between the two is MINIMAL. If anything, I prefer the vision.

On HW4 or 3, there will always be new updates coming. You either prefer leading edge tech (TESLA) or not. That is up to you. It isn't like the competition has gotten past HW3.

Waymo, Cruise, and few others are even further ahead, but not selling, only offering driverless taxi rides to the public, so maybe you'd think it's not a fair comparison. HOWEVER, Mercedes is selling a working today Level 3 ADAS (you officially don't have to pay attention, can close your eyes, read a book, or whatever), while Tesla is still at Level 2. And yes, Mercedes owns up to any liability for any damage that might be caused due to using it, Tesla on the other hand takes no liability whatsoever.

 

[vapor trail]

Waymo, Cruise, and few others are even further ahead, but not selling, only offering driverless taxi rides to the public, so maybe you'd think it's not a fair comparison. HOWEVER, Mercedes is selling a working today Level 3 ADAS (you officially don't have to pay attention, can close your eyes, read a book, or whatever), while Tesla is still at Level 2. And yes, Mercedes owns up to any liability for any damage that might be caused due to using it, Tesla on the other hand takes no liability whatsoever.

Is that video an accurate depiction of tesla vision parking assist? If so, it seems useless.

 

[mtbwalt]

Waymo, Cruise, and few others are even further ahead, but not selling, only offering driverless taxi rides to the public, so maybe you'd think it's not a fair comparison. HOWEVER, Mercedes is selling a working today Level 3 ADAS (you officially don't have to pay attention, can close your eyes, read a book, or whatever), while Tesla is still at Level 2. And yes, Mercedes owns up to any liability for any damage that might be caused due to using it, Tesla on the other hand takes no liability whatsoever.

Is Mercedes level 3 available outside the state of Nevada or at speeds over 40 mph yet?