Increased Car Prices and $12k FSD...Just Insanity!

[Knightshade]

Autopilot does that already, you don't FSD to do this.

Basic AP does not do lane changes at all.

It autosteers in a single lane, plus TACC. That's it.

Enhanced Autopilot (which in most countries mostly stopped being available for purchase after March 2019) did though.

Without EAP you need to buy FSD to get auto lane chanes.

 

[Goose66]

Basic AP does not do lane changes at all.

It won't make an "automatic," safe lane change when you click the turn signal stalk? I was pretty sure this is a standard AutoPilot feature. What Navigate on Autopilot adds is "speed-based lane changes," where the car will change lanes automatically to maintain speed, transition from highway to highway, and take highway exit ramps.

EDIT: I see the M3 manual has been changed to say this: "Depending on market region, vehicle configuration, options purchased, and software version, your vehicle may not be equipped with Auto Lane Change, or the feature may not operate exactly as described." So I guess it's not part of AutoPilot anymore.

 

[Knightshade]

It won't make an "automatic," safe lane change when you click the turn signal stalk? I was pretty sure this is a standard AutoPilot feature.

Nope. It won't do anything except autosteer in a single lane, and TACC, if you have basic AP.

 

[Resist]

Nope. It won't do anything except autosteer in a single lane, and TACC, if you have basic AP.

Have you tried pressing the turn signal to see if Autopilot changes the lane?

 

[Knightshade]

Have you tried pressing the turn signal to see if Autopilot changes the lane?

I'm unsure why you keep arguing about this when you can go to tesla.com and see what I've said is 100% accurate.

Basic AP does not change lanes. Period full stop.

For lane changes via the turn signal of any kind you need either EAP (no longer sold in the US) or FSD (still sold).

Autopilot enables your car to steer, accelerate and brake automatically within its lane.

 

[WhiteWi]

Have you tried pressing the turn signal to see if Autopilot changes the lane?

Lol It is not. Only EAP and FSD has it. Oh and Older Model S with AP1.

 

[EVNow]

Have you tried pressing the turn signal to see if Autopilot changes the lane?

If you really want someone to test ... it would have to be someone with basic AP. If we (with EAP/FSD) signal while on AP, ofcourse it will change lane.

 

[terranx]

Have you tried pressing the turn signal to see if Autopilot changes the lane?

All that happens is autopilot disables (TACC stays on). You have to manually reeenable autopilot when you're done changing lines. Pretty annoying honestly. Even a Toyota Corolla will at least automatically resume autosteer when you're done changing lanes.

At the very least, I wish they would let us buy some features a la carte. Dumb summon and auto lane changes (basically what the old AP1 Teslas had) is all I really want. But those features aren't worth anything near $12k to me.

 

[Resist]

I'm unsure why you keep arguing about this when you can go to tesla.com and see what I've said is 100% accurate

How is asking a question arguing?! Don't be a jerk.

 

[Knightshade]

How is asking a question arguing?! Don't be a jerk.

Asking a question isn't arguing.

Asking a third time after having been answered correctly twice is.

I agree someone is being a jerk, but it ain't me.

 

[svusa]

I really wanted to sell or trade in my 2018 Model 3 for a new Model Y but the constant increases from Tesla has changed my mind. And increasing FSD to $12,000 made my decision not to buy even easier. I only paid $2,000 for FSD for my Model 3 and will never pay $12,000 or do the subscription for it. It's bad enough I'm paying $10 a month for the Premium Connectivity. Subscription based plans always increase in price so at some point I'll cancel it. Tesla now lost my money for a new Model Y, but if they let us transfer FSD for a small fee then they could get me back. Otherwise I think my Model 3 will be my last Tesla.

On the same boat as you, my friend! I consider my 3K investment in FSD as a write-off, I was expecting it to be fully functional within 5 years but that wouldn't be the case. Now, I'm not sure if I want to buy another Tesla even though I'm due for a new 2nd car.

 

[Resist]

On the same boat as you, my friend! I consider my 3K investment in FSD as a write-off, I was expecting it to be fully functional within 5 years but that wouldn't be the case. Now, I'm not sure if I want to buy another Tesla even though I'm due for a new 2nd car.

I never expected FSD to be fully functional in 5 years, when I bought it. Regulators would never approve it that soon, even if the software was done, and I knew that. I figured I'd at least get hardware upgrades, which I did but now I'd like to have the better side camera's that don't bleed into the video at night. But I will never pay $12k for FSD if I ever get a new Tesla, just won't happen. It's a tough call because the cars have longer range and better technology, like for instance the new 12 volt Lithium Ion battery. That thing is so tiny and light, it's amazing! And I do like the new interior. But I don't like the increased price points and lack of tax credits.

 

[Knightshade]

I never expected FSD to be fully functional in 5 years, when I bought it. Regulators would never approve it that soon,

This continues to be a 100% red herring. Not sure why people keep bringing it up.

It's already approved and legal today in half a dozen US states.... (I think Oklahoma just joined the list this week too).


There is no regulatory problem with L5 driving rolling out today in those states.

There is a "nobody has an L5 system that works" problem though.

 

[EVNow]

This continues to be a 100% red herring. Not sure why people keep bringing it up.

It's already approved and legal today in half a dozen US states.... (I think Oklahoma just joined the list this week too).


There is no regulatory problem with L5 driving rolling out today in those states.

There is a "nobody has an L5 system that works" problem though.

It’s a red herring … but not the way you describe it.

The state laws are for testing. NHTSA has to make changes to rules yet.

 

[Daniel in SD]

It’s a red herring … but not the way you describe it.

The state laws are for testing. NHTSA has to make changes to rules yet.

The state laws are also for deployment. And, as you're well aware, Cruise and Waymo have deployed driverless vehicles.
Is your claim that they're violating NHTSA rules? If so, which one(s)?

 

[svusa]

I never expected FSD to be fully functional in 5 years, when I bought it. Regulators would never approve it that soon, even if the software was done, and I knew that. I figured I'd at least get hardware upgrades, which I did but now I'd like to have the better side camera's that don't bleed into the video at night. But I will never pay $12k for FSD if I ever get a new Tesla, just won't happen. It's a tough call because the cars have longer range and better technology, like for instance the new 12 volt Lithium Ion battery. That thing is so tiny and light, it's amazing! And I do like the new interior. But I don't like the increased price points and lack of tax credits.

I put too much faith in Elon when he told us will turn my car into a money-making machine! anyhow, now we all know it is a lot harder problem to solve than what anyone in the industry expected!

 

[Knightshade]

It’s a red herring … but not the way you describe it.

The state laws are for testing.

This is 100% wrong.

It includes deployment. A few states even specifically cite it being ok to deploy fleets and rideshare products.

Today. Right now.

With no additional approvals generally... (in a couple states you have to do stuff like "MFG sends a letter to DMV/DOT saying their vehicle is L4 or L5", but nobody from the government has to sign off on it or check)

 

[Knightshade]

BTW this is the list last time I checked of states that allow L4 or L5 cars on the road for public deployment, not just "testing", right now


Texas, North Carolina, Florida, Tennessee, Nebraska, Georgia, Colorado.

Oklahoma is joining this list shortly (the bill passed the senate with only 1 nay vote, currently in the house where it's expected to pass).

Might be other states I missed of course.


OKs bill is marginally more restrictive than others as it requires the MFG or owner to give the state a letter explaining:
How to interact with the vehicle regarding law enforcement
How to tow the vehicle if needed
Anything else they think the state should know

They also require you to file proof of insurance with the state- but that's pretty common in at least half the other states too... again no "approval" or waiting on regulators, you just have to file a form.


But other than submitting those forms there's nothing stopping them from putting the vehicles on the road immediately (once the law goes into effect)- in production, not just testing.


And it explicitly includes operating for-hire on-demand networks (as do a few other states already)

An on-demand autonomous vehicle network shall be permitted to operate pursuant to state laws governing the operation of transportation network companies, taxis, or any other ground transportation for hire of passengers, with the exception that any provision of the Oklahoma Transportation Network Company Services Act pursuant to Section 1010 et seq. of Title 47 of the Oklahoma Statutes that reasonably applies only to a human driver would not
apply to the operation of a fully autonomous vehicle with the automated driving system engaged on an on-demand autonomous vehicle
network

Other than that it just has the same requirements as most other states where this is legal--- the car must obey all vehicle laws, and must meet all normal vehicle safety requirements like a regular car.

 

[EVNow]

This is 100% wrong.

It includes deployment. A few states even specifically cite it being ok to deploy fleets and rideshare products.

Today. Right now.

I'm just talking about NHTSA.

The OEM will face federal issues if it is not approved by NHTSA. So, state laws don't apply here. (ps : i.e. both state laws & federal have to allow AVs).

NHTSA has not made it clear how, when or if they will approve AVs or for that matter whether they even need to be approve. Some industry observers have pointed to specific rules that would be violated by AVs and think NHTSA has to make some changes.

Obviously I'm talking about AVs that are sold to the public, which is what a Tesla AV would be.

ps : Most states passed the autonomous vehicle laws because they wanted to attract autonomous car testing. They were not expecting robotaxis to start operating.

 

[Knightshade]

I'm just talking about NHTSA.

The OEM will face federal issues if it is not approved by NHTSA. So, state laws don't apply here.

NHTSA doesn't require you do anything to deploy a self driving car today.

So there's nothing to "approve"

NHTSA has not made it clear how, when or if they will approve AVs or for that matter whether they even need to be approved. Some industry observers have pointed to specific rules that would be violated by AVs and think NHTSA has to make some changes.

What existing federal regs do you think an AV would violate, specifically?

Because AFAIK there are none.