Welcome to Tesla Motors Club
Discuss Tesla's Model S, Model 3, Model X, Model Y, Cybertruck, Roadster and More.
Register

Info from Tesla - 277v feed to Wall Connector (HPWC) - Which Cars Support It

This site may earn commission on affiliate links.
I honestly do not think it matters, the UMC has a dedicated ground lead, so it's not doing anything funky like an older toaster might do which only has 2 pins on its AC plug. I put the neutral on the "Y" connection of the NEMA 14 receptacle.


Pin/wiring configuration I did:
Y: 277V Neutral
X: 277V Hot
Ground: Ground
Neutral: Ground

Yeah, I ask as on the Wall Connector it definitely matters. You actually have to flip a dip switch to use a line/neutral connection instead of a line to line connection.

The UMC inherently needs to accept a line to line OR a line to neutral connection as they have adapters for both types of connections.

I would not be surprised if it does matter which is the neutral and you just got lucky. It was a 50/50 chance (or I might be wrong and maybe it does not matter).

Thanks for the report!
 
  • Informative
Reactions: APotatoGod
Yeah, I ask as on the Wall Connector it definitely matters. You actually have to flip a dip switch to use a line/neutral connection instead of a line to line connection.

The UMC inherently needs to accept a line to line OR a line to neutral connection as they have adapters for both types of connections.

I would not be surprised if it does matter which is the neutral and you just got lucky. It was a 50/50 chance (or I might be wrong and maybe it does not matter).

Thanks for the report!

It should be the same as hooking it up to 120 volts.
 
Yeah. 120v being one hot wire and one neutral. My guess is that the UMC cares which is neutral, but maybe not... We should test it!

The UMC works with a NEMA 10-30 adapter, so it can't always rely on there being a safety ground for it to sanity check potential between neutral and safety ground, and hot and safety ground. Thus it has no reliable test to differentiate neutral and hot.

My guess for why the wall charger cares about polarity, is just a safety thing, since the wall charger can use so much current, and it is guaranteed to always have a ground unlike the UMC, which may not have a safety ground with the 10-30 connector. The wall charger could be checking potential between safety ground and neutral connections, to make sure things seem to be hooked up properly before being turned on. It's a permanent installation too, so it's expected to be wired into a known compliant circuit. The UMC can be plugged in anywhere, and it's more important that it works, rather than be over precautious.
 
Last edited:
As I recall, Gen1 Mobile connector did care which pin was Neutral and which one was Hot. I haven't seen conclusive evidence on the Gen2 because most of the use cases for homemade adapters are covered by official Gen2 Tesla adapters.

Perhaps all UMC's do care, and I just got lucky with my wiring. I just read that there is GFCI protection built into the UMC. It might do a quick GFCI test, by dumping some current to safety ground with what it thinks is the hot lead. But if you reverse the polarity, no current would flow, since neutral is already shorted to ground, and the GFCI test fails.
 
  • Informative
Reactions: eprosenx
Two years now. 277VAC 49mph on my 3
And 50mph on my Uncles Y. just installed Gen 3 at uncles house but only 240vac there. Sorry.
But I did try passing DC through mobile charger. As expected did not work. Did 120v as a test. Did not fry it but flashing red light said NOPE!
Hi Fronhofer, I’ve been wanting to try DC also and was thinking maybe your DC voltage was too low to work. 120vdc would only be equivalent to somewhere around 76vac. That would be below the 90v threshold of most devices. Any chance you are willing to try something higher!

I am working on a portable setup to combine two 200vac sources to allow me to peg out the onboard charger for track days. 12kw charging rate would be super helpful vs the 9.3kw I usually top out at. If I was able to use something like 350vdc (~250vac equivalent) to the onboard charger it would actual simplify the whole setup. No need for an inverter stage to the UMC.

Oooo this thread is awesome!
 
DC voltage was too low to work
Too low for what? Blowing out your charger? You can't feed DC thorough the HPWC. Doing so is an exercise in futility or stupidity; I'm not sure which. At best, nothing will happen. At worst, you'll destroy expensive electronics and maybe even start a fire.

combine two 200vac sources
This has bad idea written all over it. What are you trying to do, run a pair of 208V lines in series into your car to get 416V@32A? You realize that can't work, right (Ok, I know how to do it, but I'm not going to offer advice on destroying your car)? At best you'll blow a breaker when you connect phase one's hot to phase two's neutral (which is shared with all phases). If you somehow made it work and got 400+ volts, you'll likely fry your charger and be staying at the track longer than planned.

Don't try to feed DC or AC >277V into your car, using a HPWC or any other L2 charging station. You won't like the results.
 
Too low for what? Blowing out your charger? You can't feed DC thorough the HPWC. Doing so is an exercise in futility or stupidity; I'm not sure which. At best, nothing will happen. At worst, you'll destroy expensive electronics and maybe even start a fire.


This has bad idea written all over it. What are you trying to do, run a pair of 208V lines in series into your car to get 416V@32A? You realize that can't work, right (Ok, I know how to do it, but I'm not going to offer advice on destroying your car)? At best you'll blow a breaker when you connect phase one's hot to phase two's neutral (which is shared with all phases). If you somehow made it work and got 400+ volts, you'll likely fry your charger and be staying at the track longer than planned.

Don't try to feed DC or AC >277V into your car, using a HPWC or any other L2 charging station. You won't like the results.

too low for the charger or hpwc activate. Both devices will have a rectifier that converts to dc. When powered with dc they just pass the dc through instead of rectifying. But you may be right about damage, not sure what electronics maybe be expecting ac.

A lot of assumptions you made there. I plan on converting 7.5kw of 200vac to 30vdc for each source. Combine on the isolated dc bus side. Use a large inverter. New ac power is 12kw regulated 240vac. I would like to keep the setup under 60lbs and easily trunkable.
 
No, the hpwc doesn't have any rectifier in it. It's just a relay that opens/closes a switch.
I apologize I realize now what I said was confusing (will edit if I can), I was referring to the rectifier in the low voltage control circuit of the hpwc. It has an ac to dc converter that would likely happily operate on dc given it generally will pass through a rectifier stage. The relay and control circuit are usually all dc powered. At least this is how most evse are built and looking at the hpwc internals may have a similar layout.
 
I apologize I realize now what I said was confusing (will edit if I can), I was referring to the rectifier in the low voltage control circuit of the hpwc. It has an ac to dc converter that would likely happily operate on dc given it generally will pass through a rectifier stage. The relay and control circuit are usually all dc powered. At least this is how most evse are built and looking at the hpwc internals may have a similar layout.
Oh, I got you. You're talking about taking the AC from the wall circuit to create the little like 5V DC signals to use on its own circuit board, not talking about sending DC output on the charging cord. Yeah, that makes sense.
 
Oh, I got you. You're talking about taking the AC from the wall circuit to create the little like 5V DC signals to use on its own circuit board, not talking about sending DC output on the charging cord. Yeah, that makes sense.
Well, sort of. I was saying the hpwc contains control electronics that are normally powered by AC from the plug. That ac is converted to dc to power the control electronics and relay inside the hpwc. So with that in mind if you fed the hpwc something around 160vdc it might run with no issues thinking it was running on 120vac.
 
too low for the charger or hpwc activate. Both devices will have a rectifier that converts to dc. When powered with dc they just pass the dc through instead of rectifying. But you may be right about damage, not sure what electronics maybe be expecting ac.

A lot of assumptions you made there. I plan on converting 7.5kw of 200vac to 30vdc for each source. Combine on the isolated dc bus side. Use a large inverter. New ac power is 12kw regulated 240vac. I would like to keep the setup under 60lbs and easily trunkable.
Fair enough. Lots of wild and crazy charging ideas have been floated around on TMC over the years, many of which are wildly unsafe and gross NEC violations. I guess I've developed a bit of hypersensitivity to "creative charging thinking" as a result. I suppose it might be simpler to convert AC to HV DC (skipping the need for big transformers) if you can find a compatible inverter, but it still sounds risky if you don't know what you're doing.

I apologize I realize now what I said was confusing (will edit if I can), I was referring to the rectifier in the low voltage control circuit of the hpwc. It has an ac to dc converter that would likely happily operate on dc given it generally will pass through a rectifier stage. The relay and control circuit are usually all dc powered. At least this is how most evse are built and looking at the hpwc internals may have a similar layout.
There is a small DC supply (likely a switcher) in any EVSE to power the electronics. A linear power supply (with a step down transformer before the rectifier) will definitely not work with a DC input. Some switching supplies will. Just scanning through 5V switching supplies at Digi-Key, maybe 40% are spec'ed for HV DC input.

But even if the HPWC comes alive, successfully communicates with the car, and tries to start charging, there's 3 outcomes: the car's charger powers up and works (yay!), doesn't work (oh well), or self-destructs (possibly starting a fire and destroying your car). The risk-reward tradeoff just doesn't seem worthwhile, at least not without finding out if the chargers can safely accept DC input before further experimenting.

Maybe a portable Chademo charger w/ the Tesla adapter? Probably more efficient than 2x200VAC->DC (bus)->50A@240VAC->DC (battery).