Insight With Deciding

[Thefonz]

Hello everyone. Long time lurker but new to the Tesla Motors Club. I figured I did enough browsing that it would only be proper to join this forum.
I hope this is allowed and I also hope to not get hate for this but I figured the best people to ask is the community and owners themselves. Bare with me here as this will be a very informative and long thread.

So back in March of this year I had the liberty of having a 2018 Tesla Model S 100D for the weekend. Essentially a 36 hour test drive is what I would call it. I worked with my local dealer which is 60 miles away from my home as I am based in Socal. Specifically in the Riverside area. Anyways I had the vehicle to enjoy for the weekend as I was about to put a deposit down on a Model S but asked if there was anyway to have a vehicle for a day or 2 to ensure I am making the right decision, which after all it is a rather complete opposite to what we are all accustom to. So with much hesitation from the dealer and the manager they agreed and dropped the vehicle off on Saturday at 8am for me and told me to return the vehicle on Sunday by 5pm. Let me first by saying these vehicles are incredibly remarkable. My plan was to order a 75D with autopilot and a sunroof with the high fidelity package. Me and my fiance planned accordingly to have as much time in the seat as much as possible. In 36 hours we put almost 400 miles on that weekend loaner without having to drive over an hour away even in the pouring rain. Needless to say it was great up until we opened the glovebox and discovered the window sticker. . . $120,000 for this vehicle. I was blown away by the price. I mean for the cost there are so many vehicles that fall in that price range which offer more if not the same features for cheaper. I mean that's a Porsche 911 or even a Audi S7 for that price.

My background is I work for a software company which offers engine and transmission performance software for German vehicles. Primarily VW, Audi and Porsche. So when I see a price tag like that, I imagine all the vehicles that fall in that price range. My commute consists of 108 miles a day. 54 miles to work and 54 miles to home. Going to work consists of sitting in traffic mainly and going home isn't so bad. I would not be able to use autopilot for most of my commute as the road has far too many curves and hair pins that I would not dare test the limits of auto pilot. I ended up back off on getting a Model S for the time being and purchased a pre owned Audi S4 (I know total opposite) as I wanted to have a fun car that would make me smile ear to ear but man oh man does it love gas. Half a tank to work and back home if I do end driving it to work which is maybe once a month. It is a garage queen for sure.

Now on to the nitty gritty here. I was never a fan of the model 3 even when it debuted. I seen it as a cheap alternative to a Model S which they don't even come close to features. My commute won't be changing in the next 6 years or so, so I have now come to my senses that I am just spending far too much on gas, oil, tires and brakes. My daily commuter is a 30mpg VW which has a 2.0 liter turbocharged engine with a whopping 18 gallon gas tank. I get about 430 miles to a tank which includes a mix of city driving which is not great. So my outlook on the Model 3 has since changed these past couple of months seeing as they offer a 310 mile range and that would last me almost 3 days of driving to and from work and I would be spending a fraction of the cost at a supercharger than at a gas station.
I have looked up so may articles and have seen so many videos online of owners ranting on about how much they love their Tesla. I have been provocatively searching these forums and others to see what they offer for this vehicle. Everything from accessories, cost of charging at home, charger installations and even the modifications I can do to looks of the Model 3. I mean I like to modify my vehicles so nothing in my hands is staying stock so to speak.

If you have reached this far down I applaud you. My question for you current owners is this, what did you come from and was the switch really worth it for you? If you had the choice between a pre-owned Model S or a new Model 3, would you still have chosen the Model 3?
I see people describing the Model 3 as more nimble and fun to drive. Others that have modified the suspension has said it eliminates the body roll and makes the vehicle feel more planted. I have looked into other alternative electric cars but my mind and wallet is still set on a Tesla. My biggest issues with the Model 3 is you get one giant landscape screen which I loved the dual screens on the Model S. You get a card for the key which is absolutely terrible if you ask me. I like to be able to have a physical key and not rely on my phone. The other flaws is you do not get a high fidelity sound which some owners describe the sound system to be very good in the Model 3 and I am a big music guy so it has got to have great sound. Lastly is the size of the vehicle. I have yet to be behind the wheel of a Model 3 let alone sit in one but this would solely be only my commuter vehicle. Sure it may be used for a trip to Utah or Arizona or even Texas but it will be a commuter only.

My main goal is to save money in the log run and on my commute especially since I spend about $400 in gas right now just to and from work. Range is a huge factor for me as well. Less time I have to be at the supercharger the better it is for me which is why I like the Model 3 so much as well. I wish I would be able to have a Model 3 for a week or even 3 days for my work commute to experience this first hand before making the commitment but this is almost unheard of for a non Tesla owner.

Anyone that would like to chime in with pros and cons or simply would like to express their opinion on this, I would gladly appreciate it. I am sure a post like this has been done before but I see the best people to interact with and ask is the community and owners themselves. I greatly appreciate the responses everyone.

 

[Kermee]

Long, but I made it through. You and I have similar commute distances, albeit, mine are more stop-and-go freeway/highway miles. I'll try to keep my response short.

• If your main goal is to save money in the long run, you cannot go wrong with a Model 3. I'm not sure where you are in California, but assume you're in a TOU area. Before I got my Model 3, I spent between $500-$600 monthly on gas. I spent $55 on electricity and $0 on gas last month.
• Quite a few posters here on TMC have given up BMW's and Audi's, including an S4 owner, for their Model 3. I can't think of one instance where a poster said he or she regretted it.
• If I had a choice between a pre-owned Model S and a Model 3, I'd still choose the Model 3 over it. Model S is too just large of a car for me.
• The way I read your post, I think you'd be most happy with a Model 3 Performance with the Performance Upgrade. Before you freak out at the price, remember if you take delivery before 12/31/2018, you're eligible for the $7,500 Federal tax rebate and whatever the current California EV Rebate. — You would not be eligible for these tax rebates with a pre-owned EV.
  
• As for the 310 mile range and being able to drive your commute without topping up 3 days, that's technically not feasible. Maybe two days, but most of us just suggest topping up at home every night with home charging.

Hope this helps.

EDIT: Couple more answers to your questions/comments:

• One-screen Model 3 vs. Dual-screen Model S... I'm a believer in less-is-more. I rarely look at the screen while I drive anyway.
• Key-card, I think a lot of people agreed. Hence... Key fobs are coming for the Model 3 (free for all current and future owners).
• I'm also a music guy... The sound system in the Model 3 is still plenty amazing.

 

[gambit48]

Honestly, the environmental benefits were maybe 1% of my decision.

It was basically 99% financial and fun/convenience.

I keep cars for a long time. This replaced a 10 yr old Lexus. I hope to keep it as long. Realistically, I hope to milk to battery for 8-10 years, and dump this car when I feel it's degraded too much or technology has advanced far too much. I anticipate needing a new motor in that time based on long term S cars. Paying out of pocket. I figure any maintenance savings from oil changes, transmission changes, etc will be swapped with the cost of a new drive motor.

It primarily came down to the gas savings. Even in California, it's substantial. I do a mix of Supercharging and home charging. Mostly 1 Supercharge and topping off a couple times a week. No solar yet (getting around to it, but haven't pulled the trigger yet). So, the Supercharger rate is the same as what I'd pay for electricity at home. If I charged only at home, it'd bump me up to the next tier which is WAY expensive. We drive at least 300 miles a week. I think we save about $3-400 a month in gas.

The suspension is pretty rough, like on one of the stiffer BMW sports suspensions. Luckily, the seats are really plush so that softens all the bumps. I used to have a 3 series coupe with sports suspension.

My neighbor has a P100D S. The 3 is much more nimble for sure. The S holds a ton more and is a better long distance cruiser. If you drive 80+, you're not getting anywhere near 310 mile range. Expect 260 or something. There's a chart somewhere. I'd prefer a key fob, but it's definitely not a deal breaker. The screen isn't a big deal either, even though I'd like a screen in front of the driver for Nav directions. I might mount a holder for my phone there eventually.

The sound system is the best I've ever owned, by far. Better than the expensive Mark Levinson system in the Lexus, which got incredibly good reviews. Light years better than my 2018 BMW extra cost option Harmon Kardon system. Much better than the highest one system that was on my Honda (don't think it was branded, just extra watts and speakers). The sound system is definitely something you don't have to worry about compared to other stock systems.

My best recommendation is to just rent one on Turo for a week. That's what my neighbor did.

 

[JeffK]

I seen it as a cheap alternative to a Model S which they don't even come close to features.

This is definitely not the case. There are pros and cons to both. There are areas where the Model 3 is superior to the Model S and areas where the Model S is a better fit for some like if they want a hatchback or self presenting door handles...

Personally the Model S is too large/heavy for me and the P100D was always going to be out of reach. I ended up going for the Performance Model 3.

It's quick, agile, and silent. It's also going to have track mode in the future but that's more about bragging rights. It's a mid-sized car so expect the same cargo space

For someone with your commute the RWD version would be great. Autopilot would be beneficial too, especially with stop and go traffic, you'd have to learn to get comfortable with it on the turns.

It's honestly the most fantastic, futuristic, car I've ever driven. As far as the suspension on the 20s no less, it's better than my last few cars, but they weren't luxury cars.

 

[Knightshade]

My background is I work for a software company which offers engine and transmission performance software for German vehicles. Primarily VW, Audi and Porsche. So when I see a price tag like that, I imagine all the vehicles that fall in that price range. My commute consists of 108 miles a day. 54 miles to work and 54 miles to home. Going to work consists of sitting in traffic mainly and going home isn't so bad. I would not be able to use autopilot for most of my commute as the road has far too many curves and hair pins that I would not dare test the limits of auto pilot

That's a shame as dealing with traffic is one of the absolute best features on any new Tesla.

It has improved the quality of my commute (which is shorter than yours, but not by that much) about 900,000 percent.

With decent road lines and/or a car to follow I wouldn't hesitate to try EAP on your drive.

Now on to the nitty gritty here. I was never a fan of the model 3 even when it debuted. I seen it as a cheap alternative to a Model S which they don't even come close to features.

Other than "displays speed in front of you instead of to the side" and "has seating for 7 instead of 5" I'm not sure what features you're thinking the S has that the 3 does not?

A cold weather package I guess...? Oh, and presenting door handles.

In exchange for giving that up you get a car with vastly better handling that doesn't feel like a boat either around corners or going through tight parking lots.... plus nice things like modern cup holders...and at a significantly cheaper price point.

If you have reached this far down I applaud you. My question for you current owners is this, what did you come from and was the switch really worth it for you? If you had the choice between a pre-owned Model S or a new Model 3, would you still have chosen the Model 3?

I too had a long-term (well about 30 hours) test drive of a model S by the way... an even more expensive one than yours, a P100D.

Jaw dropping a straight line. And it handled very well for a huge, heavy boat... but it was still a huge heavy boat.

The 3 drives better in every single way other than stomach-dropping straight line acceleration.

The car I was coming from BTW, was a Lexus IS350 with sport package and upgraded F-sport sway bars (plus intake/exhaust mods).... a reasonably quick and nimble car (it's a 2nd gen IS, before they porked up the vehicle and made it slower and crappier).

The model 3 handles better than that, rides better than that, plus- autopilot is vastly better than anything Lexus offers.

Others that have modified the suspension has said it eliminates the body roll and makes the vehicle feel more planted.

Car already has less body roll stock than anything else out the door from other car makers because of the crazy low center of gravity.

Wheels/tires might be worth looking at as far as plant-ability (tires at least if not getting the P3D+)

I have looked into other alternative electric cars but my mind and wallet is still set on a Tesla. My biggest issues with the Model 3 is you get one giant landscape screen which I loved the dual screens on the Model S.

The S is actually having the UI changed to be more like the 3.... other screens pop up as overlays you can slide up or down to cover as much of the main map or not as you want.

You get a card for the key which is absolutely terrible if you ask me. I like to be able to have a physical key and not rely on my phone.

The key card is physical... that said- what kind of phone do you have? iphones seem to be pretty flawless used with the 3...androids are much more hit/miss.

Either way though, a physical key fob is coming soon for the car, and will allegedly go free to current owners when available, so that eliminates that issue for you.

The other flaws is you do not get a high fidelity sound which some owners describe the sound system to be very good in the Model 3 and I am a big music guy so it has got to have great sound.

The 3 stereo sounds better than the high fidelity one in the S.

Also better than the Mark Levinson stereo in my Lexus.

It is excellent. Especially if you play high quality source material (which really means you'll want a big USB key full of FLAC files... note the interface isn't terrific. But the sound is).

Lastly is the size of the vehicle. I have yet to be behind the wheel of a Model 3 let alone sit in one but this would solely be only my commuter vehicle. Sure it may be used for a trip to Utah or Arizona or even Texas but it will be a commuter only.

It seats 4-5 adults comfortable, with a decent sized trunk, and fold-down rear seats, you should be fine on space.

My main goal is to save money in the log run and on my commute especially since I spend about $400 in gas right now just to and from work. Range is a huge factor for me as well. Less time I have to be at the supercharger the better it is for me which is why I like the Model 3 so much as well. I wish I would be able to have a Model 3 for a week or even 3 days for my work commute to experience this first hand before making the commitment but this is almost unheard of for a non Tesla owner.

There's model 3s for rent on turo in most major cities by now- like 200 bucks a day when I looked last, but that could potentially give you the 3 day test you want. You might not be able to be as picky about getting the specific trim level you want (RWD vs AWD vs P- vs P+) though. But it'd answer some questions about size, stereo, etc... at least.

And don't forget the savings in maintenance.... the car requires basically nothing for the first 99,000 miles other than brake fluid changes every 2 years...plus normal wear items (tires, wipers, etc). (at 100k you have to change the battery coolant).

And with regen brakes it's pretty common to go well north of 100k without touching the stock brake pads too.

 

[Thefonz]

Long, but I made it through. You and I have similar commute distances, albeit, mine are more stop-and-go freeway/highway miles. I'll try to keep my response short.

• If your main goal is to save money in the long run, you cannot go wrong with a Model 3. I'm not sure where you are in California, but assume you're in a TOU area. Before I got my Model 3, I spent between $500-$600 monthly on gas. I spent $55 on electricity and $0 on gas last month.
• Quite a few posters here on TMC have given up BMW's and Audi's, including an S4 owner, for their Model 3. I can't think of one instance where a poster said he or she regretted it.
• If I had a choice between a pre-owned Model S and a Model 3, I'd still choose the Model 3 over it. Model S is too just large of a car for me.
• The way I read your post, I think you'd be most happy with a Model 3 Performance with the Performance Upgrade. Before you freak out at the price, remember if you take delivery before 12/31/2018, you're eligible for the $7,500 Federal tax rebate and whatever the current California EV Rebate. — You would not be eligible for these tax rebates with a pre-owned EV.
  
• As for the 310 mile range and being able to drive your commute without topping up 3 days, that's technically not feasible. Maybe two days, but most of us just suggest topping up at home every night with home charging.

Hope this helps.

EDIT: Couple more answers to your questions/comments:

• One-screen Model 3 vs. Dual-screen Model S... I'm a believer in less-is-more. I rarely look at the screen while I drive anyway.
• Key-card, I think a lot of people agreed. Hence... Key fobs are coming for the Model 3 (free for all current and future owners).
• I'm also a music guy... The sound system in the Model 3 is still plenty amazing.

I do appreciate the feedback. That is insane to see that your cost is only $55 a month for electricity. Ideally as much as I do not want to spend much time at superchargers, I think to help save myself from being bumped up to another tier in our electricity bill. I will gladly sit there for 30 minutes to charge and allow traffic to die down. They just opened up a supercharger with my daily commute which is awesome.
I do agree about the Model S being large. I do like the largeness of the vehicle and the power lift gate and summons feature and the space that comes with it. But if it means saving that much and getting into a new vehicle, I will for sure make sacrifices.
I do like the performance version but I really do not see a need to jump up to a base price of $65k to have such a fast 0-60. I mean it is after all a commuter vehicle.
I do appreciate the insight you have offered. My co workers call me crazy but I would be Abel to charge the vehicle at work as well. We have 240 volt outlets at work for our dynamometer fans and other equipment which should help save me a lot at home.
My S4 has a Bang and Olufsen sound system which I think sounds amazing. I hope the Model 3 comes close if not identical to that system.

 

[Thefonz]

Honestly, the environmental benefits were maybe 1% of my decision.

It was basically 99% financial and fun/convenience.

I keep cars for a long time. This replaced a 10 yr old Lexus. I hope to keep it as long. Realistically, I hope to milk to battery for 8-10 years, and dump this car when I feel it's degraded too much or technology has advanced far too much. I anticipate needing a new motor in that time based on long term S cars. Paying out of pocket. I figure any maintenance savings from oil changes, transmission changes, etc will be swapped with the cost of a new drive motor.

It primarily came down to the gas savings. Even in California, it's substantial. I do a mix of Supercharging and home charging. Mostly 1 Supercharge and topping off a couple times a week. No solar yet (getting around to it, but haven't pulled the trigger yet). So, the Supercharger rate is the same as what I'd pay for electricity at home. If I charged only at home, it'd bump me up to the next tier which is WAY expensive. We drive at least 300 miles a week. I think we save about $3-400 a month in gas.

The suspension is pretty rough, like on one of the stiffer BMW sports suspensions. Luckily, the seats are really plush so that softens all the bumps. I used to have a 3 series coupe with sports suspension.

My neighbor has a P100D S. The 3 is much more nimble for sure. The S holds a ton more and is a better long distance cruiser. If you drive 80+, you're not getting anywhere near 310 mile range. Expect 260 or something. There's a chart somewhere. I'd prefer a key fob, but it's definitely not a deal breaker. The screen isn't a big deal either, even though I'd like a screen in front of the driver for Nav directions. I might mount a holder for my phone there eventually.

The sound system is the best I've ever owned, by far. Better than the expensive Mark Levinson system in the Lexus, which got incredibly good reviews. Light years better than my 2018 BMW extra cost option Harmon Kardon system. Much better than the highest one system that was on my Honda (don't think it was branded, just extra watts and speakers). The sound system is definitely something you don't have to worry about compared to other stock systems.

My best recommendation is to just rent one on Turo for a week. That's what my neighbor did.

The fastest I will ever see on my commute is 60mph. My commute consists of all street driving other than a very curvy road which they call a highway since you can get from one county to another straight through the mountains but max speed on there is 55mph. Going to work is pretty much all downhill so regen would play a key roll.
I have been in many high end vehicles at work and have driven many of them. Everything from a VW Golf GTI to a Porsche 911 Turbo S or even a Bentley Flying Spur. I still felt as if the Model S alone was a huge win over for me. The ride was so smooth.
I will most certainly look into Turo and see if I can find someone in my area that is willing to rent one out at a decent price.
At least with that it would help me decide for certain but the responses I am getting are overwhelming with positive responses.

 

[Thefonz]

This is definitely not the case. There are pros and cons to both. There are areas where the Model 3 is superior to the Model S and areas where the Model S is a better fit for some like if they want a hatchback or self presenting door handles...

Personally the Model S is too large/heavy for me and the P100D was always going to be out of reach. I ended up going for the Performance Model 3.

It's quick, agile, and silent. It's also going to have track mode in the future but that's more about bragging rights. It's a mid-sized car so expect the same cargo space

For someone with your commute the RWD version would be great. Autopilot would be beneficial too, especially with stop and go traffic, you'd have to learn to get comfortable with it on the turns.

It's honestly the most fantastic, futuristic, car I've ever driven. As far as the suspension on the 20s no less, it's better than my last few cars, but they weren't luxury cars.

Honestly the self presenting door handles are cool but even the loaner I had for 2 days had its moments where the door handles hesitated as I was trying to get in the vehicle at times. Not to mention the cost of those door handles as well. The Model 3 reminds of the Nissan GTR as I think that was one of the few vehicles that offered that style of door handle in 2008.

See my thing is the autopilot would only be used for maybe 15 miles of my commute if anything. Since the highway I drive on with speeds of 45-55mph around a very aggressive turn, I would not trust autopilot. I would benefit with it at some point other than my commute but even when I had the loaner I think we used it for 20 miles of the nearly 400 miles that we put on it.

 

[owensd]

Well, I have a 190 mile commute, one way, that I make 2-4 times a week. I used to do it on a motorcycle, but that was just getting too annoying to deal with. Gearing for 40 degree temperature swings and stopping for gas 4 times per trip gets old quick.

I created a worksheet of different options, including diesel cars like the Audi A3 TDI. The Tesla (which surprised me at the time as I was pricing 2015 used cars vs a new Model 3) was the cheapest option, including putting solar on the house to offset the cost of charging at home. Also, the Model 3 is just so much more fun to drive. Even the adaptive cruise control is a blessing in stop and go traffic, let alone auto pilot (sure, you might not be able to fully take advantage of that).

I ended up with a P3D+, and honestly, that cut into the cost savings. As I see it though, I've got a really fun car to drive again (I used to drive an Audi A4 in my younger days), and an excuse to get solar as well. That's in addition to the newely $10K I'm saving over driving my Rubicon to work (17 mpg isn't great for a 380 mike trip!).

In regards to solar, getting a 9.9kW system pays for itself with what my energy costs for me down in CA over 5 years. So realistically, if I don't sell the car, my break even point ends up being the 6~7 year mark (selling it outright is like 3-5). However, I'm likely to trade in the Model 3 in a 3-5 years if they can get the range up on the Model X. That probably moves the break even point out a bit...

 

[ForeverFree]

Veteran here of S4, S5, 330xi, Mitsubishi 3000GT VR4, and Supra.

Model 3 is better to drive ... by a ridiculously wide margin. No comparison. Even on the sound system vs. Audi B&O, BMW HK, etc.

Also veteran of Model S 85D. At least for my wife and for me ... also not even close. Prefer the size. Prefer the seating and forward visibility. Much prefer the handling.

Also prefer the single screen. (Can set wheel where comfortable without blocking speedo.). Prefer the fobless phone key. Prefer the sound system. Prefer the seats (although by a narrow margin).

On the road, prefer the longer range and faster Supercharging.

Other thought, get a dedicated EV home charger and discounted EV electrical service. Life’s too short to waste time at a Supercharger to save a few dollars. And, you should be able to do way cheaper than 26 cents per kW-h at a Supercharger.

Finally, you will love the incredible regeneration energy recapture on your mountain road downhill.

Buy now. Seize the EV tax credit. Enjoy!!!!

 

[Randy7fx]

I just picked up my Performance 3 a week ago and absolutely love it. My last three cars for comparison were (most recent last): Diesel BMW X5, 6 cylinder BMW X1, 4 cylinder BMW X1. I did performance center delivery on two of those vehicles, and have been a BMW guy my entire life (parents drove BMWs also). I absolutely LOVE the 3 and will never again purchase another BMW.

My commute is about 40 miles each way, primarily stop and go on traffic on the highway (30 of those miles is a highway that is opening toll lanes late this year and has been under construction for the past 3+ years). I use autopilot every day and absolutely love it. It has made the commute so much less stressful, and I don't know how I lived without it.

I was previously spending about $250 per month on gas. I am fortunate in that I can charge for free at the office, and also have a solar system at home, so I effectively pay $0 to charge.

The car handles amazingly well based on the low center of gravity, and is just heads and tails above everything else out there in terms of technological innovation. And it keeps getting better with software updates. You cant go wrong with this car!

 

[JeffK]

all street driving

Even with street driving the traffic aware cruise control (part of autopilot) works great.

 

[KalaGulab]

I do appreciate the feedback. That is insane to see that your cost is only $55 a month for electricity. Ideally as much as I do not want to spend much time at superchargers, I think to help save myself from being bumped up to another tier in our electricity bill. I will gladly sit there for 30 minutes to charge and allow traffic to die down. They just opened up a supercharger with my daily commute which is awesome.
I do agree about the Model S being large. I do like the largeness of the vehicle and the power lift gate and summons feature and the space that comes with it. But if it means saving that much and getting into a new vehicle, I will for sure make sacrifices.
I do like the performance version but I really do not see a need to jump up to a base price of $65k to have such a fast 0-60. I mean it is after all a commuter vehicle.
I do appreciate the insight you have offered. My co workers call me crazy but I would be Abel to charge the vehicle at work as well. We have 240 volt outlets at work for our dynamometer fans and other equipment which should help save me a lot at home.
My S4 has a Bang and Olufsen sound system which I think sounds amazing. I hope the Model 3 comes close if not identical to that system.

If you can charge your car at work every day, maybe you don't need to charge at home at all - or perhaps very little - for your 108 mile round trip commute.

Quite a nice work benefit!

 

[Uncle Paul]

Think you are the perfect customer for a Tesla.

Don't obsess over the price you found in the glove box. Tesla simply gave you a top of the line Model S so you could experience all the bells and whistles and choose the options you found worth their price. Think a base Model S starts arround $75,000 or so and you get a lot for that price.

Get your order in quickly so you can get the $7,500 tax credit before the end of the year.

Tesla...they drive like no other.

 

[OutofThyme]

I picked a model 3 over the S for several reasons.

-Manual doors, didn't like the auto-presenting handles which are notoriously expensive to fix.
-range/$, not even close for the 100D, you're in the 100k territory for 300+ mile range
-nimbleness, I don't need the cargo space of the S, I'm coming from a 2016 Toyota Camry, and prefer something in that size.
-Better hardware, the S is in dire need of a refresh, and no way I'm paying that much for that car when the features they offer aren't that much better than the Model 3.
-Sound system, for a cheaper car it sounds better than the S.
-Cup Holders and the position, superior to the S.
-More efficient charging

The S for being the 'premium' sedan, doesn't compete well on for 'luxury' in that market at the price point. Finish isn't comparable to Porsche, Audi, or Merc for 100k even the Lexus at that range. It's more like a 5-series with the worlds most expensive and decked out tech package.

Areas where the model 3 is worse than the S?
-Cargo, frunk and trunk space
-Glass roof
-No power lift gate
-flimsy frunk (if your frunk actuator mechanism fails on the model 3, you're out of the luck. The emergency button is also electronic. It's manual in the S/X), and its super bendable
-Terrible rear glass/trunk design. Opening it in rain means a waterway travels straight into your trunk
-No Emergency release for rear passengers. Need to have your front passengers save you, or you have to break a window, or climb out to the front seats.
-Very bare interior, I'm all for minimalism, but the whole thing about minimalism is whatever you leave behind is the best, makes the largest impact, be it aesthetically or physically. In some ways, the model 3 is great (air blade Vent, Center display), in other ways not so great (cheap plastic steering wheel, cheap headliner),gloss black console - haven't met a single person who hasn't wrapped that monstrosity to keep clean
-Paint issues, never saw this on the model S especially in recent years
-Some will say air suspension (I prefer coils, SAS is very expensive to fix)
-Hatchback for ease of access
-Heated Steering Wheel
-Dual screens
-Acceleration
-Ability to open the glovebox with a physical button

Compared to what other cars on the market have:
-12V socket, one in the front console, one in the arm rests, Cars that are $10,000 less than the BASE model 3 have it, you get 1 in the model 3
-Phone integration, for a car that is so advanced, phone integration is pretty poor. Even a Camry can read back text messages to you.
-Satellite Radio option, nada (there exists workarounds)
-USB media player is absolutely terrible
-HUD (just even having the option, and knowing Tesla's ability to disrupt, their HUD would have been superior to the market)
-Buttons on the steering wheel, hell even having user-assignable quick buttons would have been good.
-Music volume adjustability when Nav is up
-Interior quality of materials
-Better overhead lighting (the dome lights are very weak in the model 3)
-Phone key is hit or miss. (Keyfob is coming so thats good)
-Fit and finish, consistency is sorely lacking

Despite all of this, everything I listed above,

The Model 3 is still the best car I've ever driven.

 

[Sweet OJ]

I think you'll get over the one screen thing, but some people are very picky about this kind of stuff, so I guess it's something for you to think about. The model 3 IMO is more fun to drive than the S due to the agility. I only have the RWD, which I'd call "fun fast", the S even at the lowest currently offered battery size has what most people would consider "scary fast" acceleration. It doesn't sound like that's all that important to you, so you'd probably be more than good enough with AWD, possibly even RWD. The extra range is very nice to have for a commute as long as yours, so I'd buy now to get the tax break. EAP would likely be worth it for you, but I don't think it's mandatory like a lot of folks on this board. If I had a drive as long as yours, I'd spring for it, but again it's your call.

For someone who is into sound like you, I really encourage you to talk to Reus about an audio upgrade. It's 3K for the "entry level" system, but even that will be the best stereo system you've ever heard in a car. I have a very nice sound system in my house, but my car (albeit with Reus' level 2 system) sounds on par with my home system, even though it cost less, which is insane! Not crazy bass (but plenty if you're over 20 years old) and it has AMAZING clarity.

It sounds like you should do what I did and just get the RWD and put the extra money into the stereo as it will bring you more joy than the crazy acceleration that you won't be able to use on a day to day basis. Your car will look and operate like a stock vehicle, but it will sound incredible. If you do talk to Reus, please tell Rick that I (Pete from OC with the red model 3) referred you. I like helping out honest businesses that overdeliver like they do. He's a good dude and they will treat you very well.

 

[TeeEmCee]

Arghhhh, this is clickbait!!!

TL;DR:
Get Model 3, but be fully aware of what you're getting yourself into!

Bare with me here as this will be a very informative and long thread.

I will bear with you but I will not bare with you. Nobody wants to see that!

So back in March of this year I had the liberty of having a 2018 Tesla Model S 100D for the weekend. Essentially a 36 hour test drive is what I would call it.

Such sales tactics are pure evil. I sent far too much money to Bavaria over the years because of the phrase "here, take it for the week-end".

I mean that's a Porsche 911 or even a Audi S7 for that price. ... So when I see a price tag like that, I imagine all the vehicles that fall in that price range.

We hold these truths to be self-evident ...
You have the answer, it's obvious.

I would not be able to use autopilot for most of my commute as the road has far too many curves and hair pins that I would not dare test the limits of auto pilot.

If you're like me, autopilot will annoy the living crap out of you in such a setting. I'm currently testing it on a loaner X and it's exactly what I've felt it was during the test drives. It drives like a buzzed teenager that manages to get home in one piece ... most of the time.
If you crawl with traffic, I guess that's the ideal use case for Autopilot. However, an electric car is very easy to drive smoothly and keep with the flow. Even though your 2.0 is very responsive at low speed (I have one myself in an Audi), you still have the (moderate) jerkiness of the turbo spooling up and the gear shifts. There's none of that with an electric motor.

... purchased a pre owned Audi S4 (I know total opposite) as I wanted to have a fun car that would make me smile ear to ear ...

Throw the S4 into a tight turn and feel it pivot, then do that with the Model S. You will be very very disappointed. Do the same with a Model 3 with proper front tires, 19" wheels and maybe stiffer springs and you'll get most of the S4 grin back. May want to not do staggered tires for this purpose.

I seen it as a cheap alternative to a Model S which they don't even come close to features.

I don't see it that way. I'm driving an X loaner at the moment and it feels low-tech in some respects. The most obvious one, to me, is the screen, it's of substantially better quality in the 3. Blacks are a lot closer to black on the 3 and, with such a large surface, the diminished light bleed is very obvious. At night, I find the 3's screen enjoyable but I find the one(s) in the S/X annoying (because of the heavy light bleed).

Also, the stereo in the Model S was crap last time I tried one.

My commute won't be changing in the next 6 years or so ...

Unless you own the company and have a big pile of reserve capital, you don't really know that. Plan for the unexpected!

... so I have now come to my senses that I am just spending far too much on gas, oil, tires and brakes.

Gather all the data and do the math for your area. Last time I ran a scenario for the Bay Area, electricity was a ton of money, not really saving one much over an efficient gas car.
If we take the S (no such data for the 3 yet), the annual maintenance (contract) is exactly 4 times more money than what I paid for each of my Audis, insurance costs are noticeably higher and the reliability is worse (and by extension future repair costs are higher).
My personal expectation is that the 3 will do better than the S in all those areas.

I mean I like to modify my vehicles so nothing in my hands is staying stock so to speak.

In that case, thow a proper front suspension on a Model 3 and don't look back. Really, you won't look back because the view out the rear window is total crap compared to the A4/S4, so you'll back out using the camera.

If you had the choice between a pre-owned Model S or a new Model 3, would you still have chosen the Model 3?

For me it's Model 3 over Model S any day, even new vs new. This is despite the fact that I like the exterior looks of the Model S a lot better and I don't mind the extra size.

I see people describing the Model 3 as more nimble and fun to drive. Others that have modified the suspension has said it eliminates the body roll and makes the vehicle feel more planted.

Indeed.

I have looked into other alternative electric cars but my mind and wallet is still set on a Tesla. My biggest issues with the Model 3 is you get one giant landscape screen which I loved the dual screens on the Model S.

Unless you're talking about money-no-object electric competitors, the Model 3 is the clear winner of the bunch, i.m.o.. Little things will drive you nuts for a while (you know, things that have a habit of working properly in VWs half the price) but there are other endearing fearures. Understeery character notwithstanding (curable with a few Gs, I think), it drives better than most anything at the price point.

You get a card for the key which is absolutely terrible if you ask me.

Yes, it's a bit crap. Good as a back-up and fob coming "soon".

The other flaws is you do not get a high fidelity sound which some owners describe the sound system to be very good in the Model 3 and I am a big music guy so it has got to have great sound.

This one's iffy. There's a thread where I left a few comments on these; the stereo is OK, decent highs/lows and somewhat muffled mids. Not as good as a Bang&Olufsen, perhaps on par with a Bose you'd find in Audis (different though).
For me it's tolerable, and I'm a bit of a sound Nazi myself.

Lastly is the size of the vehicle. I have yet to be behind the wheel of a Model 3 let alone sit in one but this would solely be only my commuter vehicle. Sure it may be used for a trip to Utah or Arizona or even Texas but it will be a commuter only.

Good interior space due to longer wheelbase than an S.

My main goal is to save money in the log run and on my commute especially since I spend about $400 in gas right now just to and from work.

Then don't spend any. At this gas cost, even before you factor in the time value of money or interest (depending on whether you pay cash or get loan) you can drive for some 12 years before you can cover the cost of the cheapest Model 3.
Unless you're willing to consider the price you put on your enjoyment, assuming you enjoy driving the Model 3 more than your current cars, math would tell you to keep the VW.

Range is a huge factor for me as well. Less time I have to be at the supercharger the better it is for me which is why I like the Model 3 so much as well.

No issues with that for your use case, you start full every morning if you charge at home. If you can't charge at home and plan to supercharge, then you must account for all the time you need to spend there, sitting in the car and staring at a counter. That can get old real fast. Also, having to dash out when your charge is low would be an issue. Not an issue really if you keep another ICE vehicle, but then you would not be saving money and you stated that as your primary goal.

I wish I would be able to have a Model 3 for a week or even 3 days for my work commute to experience this first hand before making the commitment but this is almost unheard of for a non Tesla owner.

Turo?

 

[stupidlazydog]

I do appreciate the feedback. That is insane to see that your cost is only $55 a month for electricity. Ideally as much as I do not want to spend much time at superchargers, I think to help save myself from being bumped up to another tier in our electricity bill. I will gladly sit there for 30 minutes to charge and allow traffic to die down. They just opened up a supercharger with my daily commute which is awesome.
I do agree about the Model S being large. I do like the largeness of the vehicle and the power lift gate and summons feature and the space that comes with it. But if it means saving that much and getting into a new vehicle, I will for sure make sacrifices.
I do like the performance version but I really do not see a need to jump up to a base price of $65k to have such a fast 0-60. I mean it is after all a commuter vehicle.
I do appreciate the insight you have offered. My co workers call me crazy but I would be Abel to charge the vehicle at work as well. We have 240 volt outlets at work for our dynamometer fans and other equipment which should help save me a lot at home.
My S4 has a Bang and Olufsen sound system which I think sounds amazing. I hope the Model 3 comes close if not identical to that system.

I think the sound system in the three sounds as good, if not better, than the B&O in my Audi S3 did.

 

[Thefonz]

Sorry for being MIA everyone. I was on a business trip and didn't have much free time to explore the forums.
So Tesla just released today a mid range Model 3 which has an EPA rating of 260 miles. This is very intriguing as it essentially turns the vehicle into a 30k car which blew my mind. I was contemplating very hard before leaving for my trip to put a deposit down on a used 2016 Model S that Tesla has in their used inventory. It is a MS 75 which being as this vehicle will be used for commuting to work only I seen it online and liked it a lot. However for almost the cost of that MS 75 alone, I could get 2 mid range Model 3's.
The fiancé and I have sat down and talked and have decided to place an order on not just 1 but 2 mid range Model 3's. We are still indecisive if autopilot is a must or not. However we still have time to at least place the order and decide at a later time even if it may be a short period we have a time to decide on.

I do have a question though, the $10k rebate that us in California are still fortunate to get. Am I able to give part of that to Tesla still towards the price of the vehicle and say keep half of it? I only ask as we were thinking to keep about $10k in total from the $20k we are suppose to get back since we are getting 2 vehicles and use that money to buy solar panels out right since we have gotten numerous quotes.
Has anyone ever done this before or know if it is possible?

 

[Randy7fx]

Sorry for being MIA everyone. I was on a business trip and didn't have much free time to explore the forums.
So Tesla just released today a mid range Model 3 which has an EPA rating of 260 miles. This is very intriguing as it essentially turns the vehicle into a 30k car which blew my mind. I was contemplating very hard before leaving for my trip to put a deposit down on a used 2016 Model S that Tesla has in their used inventory. It is a MS 75 which being as this vehicle will be used for commuting to work only I seen it online and liked it a lot. However for almost the cost of that MS 75 alone, I could get 2 mid range Model 3's.
The fiancé and I have sat down and talked and have decided to place an order on not just 1 but 2 mid range Model 3's. We are still indecisive if autopilot is a must or not. However we still have time to at least place the order and decide at a later time even if it may be a short period we have a time to decide on.

I do have a question though, the $10k rebate that us in California are still fortunate to get. Am I able to give part of that to Tesla still towards the price of the vehicle and say keep half of it? I only ask as we were thinking to keep about $10k in total from the $20k we are suppose to get back since we are getting 2 vehicles and use that money to buy solar panels out right since we have gotten numerous quotes.
Has anyone ever done this before or know if it is possible?

To answer your question about the rebate, I don't think that is possible. not sure the details of the California rebate, but the federal you will get back when you do your 2018 taxes. What I did, was increase the amount I put down by an additional $7500, knowing I would get that $7500 back once I get my refund. My intent was for the full $7500 to go toward lowering the amount financed.

Congrats on the decision to purchase two! I drove my wife's BMW X1 tonight (was previouslyine for two years), drove to get gas, and was shocked at how much of a relic it felt like. Night and day different.

Congrats!