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[Intentional Hyperbole] How FSD Beta Tried To Kill Me Today

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What I've seen in my own usage of FSD Beta are clear failures well before my safety or the safety of anyone else is in danger. The only potential exception is some of the sudden jerks in the steering could happen when I'm purposely holding looser than I normally would (like a corner)

In fact I think the biggest safety issue are things that could be easily fixed. Like having the option to have a more prominent report button that's easier to hit, and any steering take over should cancel out of FSD completely. It shouldn't leave TACC enabled.

There are things I do which I feel increase safety.
  • I don't worry too much about reporting things. We only get 5 snapshots so its not a big deal if something gets missed.
  • I take over quickly in a very picky kind of way. It either does it right or I take over. I certainly won't let it take a 90 degree corner too fast as its obvious before the turn even starts.
  • I don't use it with other people in the car unless they're perfectly okay with silence.
  • I don't take videos of my drive. I thought about it because a cursing FSD cynic would be more interesting than a FSD optimist bro talking. But, I still think that would be distracting.
  • I don't listen to music as its an emotional manipulator. Although I suppose it could be used to boost concentration.
  • I made the decision not to use it anywhere where I wasn't familiar with the road, and situations that develop on that road.
All in all I'm very boring.

I don't have any question that this whole thing will come tumbling down. I think it's exciting, but we simply don't live in a nation that values the good of the whole versus the lives of the few.

You simply can't turn an L2 system in an L4 system that is 10x safer than human beings without being 100x worse than human beings in the beginning. You rely on human beings to take over during the growth from 100x worse to 10x better, but humans are fallible. The accidents won't happen in frequency at 100x worse, but once you start getting around the 4x worse mark people aren't going to be able to sustain vigilance.

What's really going to suck is it will be taken from us just as it starts to become useful.

Maybe Elon will have a crafty solution. The Safety Score illusion was certainly evidence of his craftiness.
 
I don't have any question that this whole thing will come tumbling down. I think it's exciting, but we simply don't live in a nation that values the good of the whole versus the lives of the few.
Highly unlikely that FSD testing gets banned. It might be restricted to employees only (which seems better since you could get paid!).
Maybe Elon will have a crafty solution. The Safety Score illusion was certainly evidence of his craftiness.
I wouldn't count him out. I thought FSD Beta would be way better by now and people would lose vigilance. Maybe some of the awfulness is intentional so people won't use it too much? :p
 
...if your not happy with it stop the test but don't speak out to newspaper... Tesla owners say they are wowed -- and alarmed -- by 'full self-driving'
I think the NHTSA is just sitting there with its finger on the kill switch waiting for major incidents with FSD Beta. Since there have been no incidents the NHTSA is doing nothing much - yet. Can they put a stop to ADAS systems, of course. Will they? Only if any major incidents occur and they feel there is a need to act. Why are they not doing much beforehand to ensure there aren't major incidents - it's just not their way. They like to let things roll, mostly.

Nothing wrong with FSD testers speaking out to newspapers, that's one thing the NHTSA was trying to make sure people were able to do, unconstrained by any fear of an Non-Disclosure Agreement. I don't think the original NDA actually prohibited free speech, but the NHTSA seemed to think it might have. New FSD Beta users are free to say whatever they want and some are happy, some are not.
 
LOL. NHTSA doesn't have dictatorial powers. If they try any kind of nuclear option, Tesla will sue and get a stay order within hours.
Why would you say that? NHTSA makes the rules:

and enforces the rules:

They have certain powers granted to them, that's the whole point
Companies can argue in court if they want, that's their right too.
 
"We only get 5 snapshots" - I'm not sure what this means. Has Tesla actually clarified somewhere on the kind of feedback they want from us? And how much they want? I'd be very interested to know so I can help as best as possible.

It means that every day you can only send 5 snapshots.

A snapshot being when you press the button to send a video snapshot of the last X seconds to Tesla for review.

The absolute worst thing about the FSD Beta is the lack of a feedback loop with Tesla.

I think most of us want to help out, but we really don't know how. Sure we can talk among ourselves on what we think would be helpful, but we don't actually interact with anyone at Tesla.

The lack of interaction means we're not actually beta testing anything in any real sense.

I don't expect interactions with actual Engineers, but at the very least there should be people in charge of various regions to filter the data to Engineers. And, more importantly to make the beta testers feel like they're actually a part of something. This would substantially improve the feedback.

To provide good feedback people have to feel like their making a difference.

To test anything requires a lot of attention to detail, and allocating time to report/retest.

Like here is my list with 2021.36.5.3 (most of these are not FSD specific issues)
  • Automatic Lights don't come on when the wiper setting is in a manual setting. -> By law they need to come on in when its raining
  • The "pre-heating for a super charge" comes on as soon as I enter in the Kelso Supercharger destination despite a long distance/time to the supercharger (150 miles away when it wanted to pre-heat). To a user this indicates that the energy for this is being wasted, and so they have to enter a destination of something close to the supercharger, and then switch over when they were within 30 min or so.
  • Seems to have a large power usage while sitting. 8 hours of sitting reduced the power by 4 percent (42 to 38) in 40's weather. Sentry mode was on.
  • Under AP (not NoA/FSD) on multiple occasions it would say "take over immediately" with the red steering wheel within just a couple seconds of turning it on. There wasn't anything on the road for it to get triggered by.
 
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Why would you say that? NHTSA makes the rules:

and enforces the rules:

They have certain powers granted to them, that's the whole point
Companies can argue in court if they want, that's their right too.

The NHTSA needs to be more proactive, and instead there retroactive.

So much so they asked Tesla why AP1 couldn't detect emergency vehicles.
 
Why would you say that? NHTSA makes the rules:
Rules can't be company specific. Otherwise they will get a quick stay from the judge - and because of that NHTSA lawyers won't allow company specific rules.

ps :

I don't think NHTSA did anything about AZ Uber FSD fatal crash. Here is the NTSB report on that.


There are still no standards ...
 
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It means that every day you can only send 5 snapshots.

A snapshot being when you press the button to send a video snapshot of the last X seconds to Tesla for review.

The absolute worst thing about the FSD Beta is the lack of a feedback loop with Tesla.

I think most of us want to help out, but we really don't know how. Sure we can talk among ourselves on what we think would be helpful, but we don't actually interact with anyone at Tesla.

The lack of interaction means we're not actually beta testing anything in any real sense.

I don't expect interactions with actual Engineers, but at the very least there should be people in charge of various regions to filter the data to Engineers. And, more importantly to make the beta testers feel like they're actually a part of something. This would substantially improve the feedback.

To provide good feedback people have to feel like their making a difference.

To test anything requires a lot of attention to detail, and allocating time to report/retest.

Like here is my list with 2021.36.5.3 (most of these are not FSD specific issues)
  • Automatic Lights don't come on when the wiper setting is in a manual setting. -> By law they need to come on in when its raining
  • The "pre-heating for a super charge" comes on as soon as I enter in the Kelso Supercharger destination despite a long distance/time to the supercharger (150 miles away when it wanted to pre-heat). To a user this indicates that the energy for this is being wasted, and so they have to enter a destination of something close to the supercharger, and then switch over when they were within 30 min or so.
  • Seems to have a large power usage while sitting. 8 hours of sitting reduced the power by 4 percent (42 to 38) in 40's weather. Sentry mode was on.
  • Under AP (not NoA/FSD) on multiple occasions it would say "take over immediately" with the red steering wheel within just a couple seconds of turning it on. There wasn't anything on the road for it to get triggered by.
Thanks for the info. Totally agree that more info from Tesla on the subject would be nice. Their communication kinda stinks, to say the least. Just curious though - where did you learn about the five snapshots per day limit? I had not heard that before skimming this thread. It would also be nice to know WHEN they get uploaded, and if you need to be on WiFi.

Also, to your last bullet point - FSD totally spazzed out on my morning commute today, which is only a 10 minute ride. First it told me FSD was unavailable, but it let me engage Autosteer & TACC. I did a reboot and it then let me engage FSD. A few minutes in, withour prior warning, I got the TAKE OVER NOW OR DIE chime and it completely disengaged for seemingly no reason. The visualization still showed FSD, but it was super weird - strange dotted lines out in the distance of empty fields where it normally shows nothing, and I'm pretty sure my planned path lines disappeared too. I pulled up my cameras and they were online, looked fine. A few minutes later it let me reengage again and worked normally. No clue what all that was about! And to our previous discussion - should I have snapshotted any of this??? I have no clue...
 
I am still on 2021.44.30.5 and my car tried to kill me twice a couple days ago. The first time I was behind 3 cars at a 4-way stop. Cars and people were crossing in all directions but my car didn't want to wait and started to pull the the left of the stopped cars to go around them.

When it got to the stop line, it tried to accelerate at the same time as a car to my right making a left turn, which would have T-boned it. Both times I had to slam on the brakes. I did hit the report button.