Autopilot was about to kill me

[jjjord]

First, I am sorry about the clickbait title. I am a proud owner of a new model X (decided to take advantage of FSD transfer option). To give you some background - I've been an FSD beta tester since it was available (after a strenuous couple of weeks and a 99 safety score) for couple of years now. That was on my 2018 Model 3 with latest FW 2023.7.30. I am well aware what to expect from FSD, and was very satisfied with it - I have been using it as a very advanced ADAS - will let it drive and just interfere every now and then wit things I do not agree. Safety was never a concern. Yesterday I was using FSD on the Model X (2023.32.4) on route 7 in VA about 65-70mph in the left lane with steady traffic in both lanes. All of a sudden FSD turns left blinker and moves in the left lane that appeared for the forthcoming u-turn place in the median. WITHOUT SLOWING DOWN. There was no intention for turning - the navigation (blue line) was showing to go another 20-30 miles straight. I assumed it mistook the lane as if the highway is going 3-lane and moved into the "fastest" one. Since the lane doesn't continue, I pressed the breaks and took the u-turn (there was no time for me to check with the traffic and get back). I circled back and when I passed the second time there was no problem - FSD drove by it just fine. It was quite the adrenaline rush.

Bottom line - not sure how much you trust FSD, but man was I happy I was paying attention...

To be honest - I loved it better on the Model 3 - don't know if the FSD version has changed, the HW4 is different if or the car in general doesn't work well with FSD, but I was way more confident in FSD on the Model 3. I guess it takes some getting used to.

 

[DirtyT3sla]

This is something I've been complaining about on X (

https://twitter.com/x/status/1695066333661090153

) for many months now. I call it "lane drift" but it's essentially what you experienced. This was not a problem until the 11.4.x beta update in April. The car will hit the brakes hard near the end of the lane and either move back over or go for the u-turn, but of course, good thing you were paying attention.

Also, not that it matters, but I'd guess the speed limit of the road in your picture is 55mph?

 

[jjjord]

That is correct - it is 55mph. Steady traffic though - both lanes well above 60mph. You would be a hazard to go 55mph when everybody is driving faster.

Speaking of obeying the the rules - FSD turns me into an old lady driver. I didn't have a choice but to use Tesla insurance (my insurance company denied to insure $100k+ car, because they were going by JD Powers pricing). So if you do not use FSD it impossible to get 90+ score. So while new tesla drivers have "range anxiety" I have FSD or "insurance anxiety" so I can nail that 100 safety score every day. Not to mention I have some demerit points because Tesla thought I am reckless, while I was not. Like a highway exit (clover style) with a really short exit lane. FSD tries to slow down in the regular lane to 40mph before it exits. Of course I would not let it. And many more - all I am saying is this score is not really very accurate. Now that JD powers prices are updated I'll try transferring my insurance again.

 

[jjjord]

But yes - the setup is similar in your video. You have missing marking between the lanes when it widens if that matters so drifting is the right word. I got a blinker and an intentional lane change. I noticed you have stalks - are you on HW4 with a retrofit stalks or with a HW3 with a yoke? Or something else?

 

[JB47394]

Also, not that it matters, but I'd guess the speed limit of the road in your picture is 55mph?

For another data point, I get this on road with a 35 mph speed limit that has dedicated turn-out lanes. So it's a lane selection problem, perhaps related to spurious use of turn signals. I'll sometimes come to a turn-out lane and the car will use the turn signal to indicate the opposite direction of that lane. So the car seems to see a turn-out lane to one side, knows that it's not going that way, so it signals the opposite way despite the opposite way being straight ahead. The failures are always at the same points, but I don't know if that necessarily means that it's related to bad map data.

 

[azred]

This is a software glitch on both my old Model S and my new Model Y. I think it first happened one or two software iterations ago and may be the most dangerous glitch I can recall in my two years as a Beta tester on two cars. I too did the FSD transfer a month ago: Model 3 to HW4 Model Y and don’t think HW3 vs HW4 is relevant.

This glitch will surely cause an accident or two if it hasn’t already. As you noted, it doesn’t give you much time to correct since it is suddenly moving into a short lane designed for a left turn or u-turn.

P.S. If thread title can be modified, I would do it. Your thread is important but as you said, it is currently ”click baity.”

 

[Jmolloy3]

I have the same issue. In my most recent case, the hwy was wide open and the car (3P) seemed to have room ahead in the turn lane and be slowing appropriately, so I let it do it's thing and it eventually pulled back out of the turn lane onto the main hwy. This seems to be a lot worse in FSD Beta 11.4.7. Also seems to miss exits on highways. As an example I may have a right exit a couple miles ahead, and the car will be 3 lanes over in the left lane. It just seems to start it's movement to the exit lane way too late (~maybe the last 1/2 mile) and by the time it's coming up it's not gonna work, so you miss the exit. Progress: 2 steps forward, 1.9 steps back I guess...

 

[DirtyT3sla]

That is correct - it is 55mph. Steady traffic though - both lanes well above 60mph. You would be a hazard to go 55mph when everybody is driving faster.

Speaking of obeying the the rules - FSD turns me into an old lady driver. I didn't have a choice but to use Tesla insurance (my insurance company denied to insure $100k+ car, because they were going by JD Powers pricing). So if you do not use FSD it impossible to get 90+ score. So while new tesla drivers have "range anxiety" I have FSD or "insurance anxiety" so I can nail that 100 safety score every day. Not to mention I have some demerit points because Tesla thought I am reckless, while I was not. Like a highway exit (clover style) with a really short exit lane. FSD tries to slow down in the regular lane to 40mph before it exits. Of course I would not let it. And many more - all I am saying is this score is not really very accurate. Now that JD powers prices are updated I'll try transferring my insurance again.

The speed limit in my example is also 55mph, but yes, myself and other traffic regularly go 60mph+. I was just curious.

Sometimes the car will blinker over to that open lane, sometimes it won't. It's an extremely frustrating and repeatable behavior.

 

[DirtyT3sla]

But yes - the setup is similar in your video. You have missing marking between the lanes when it widens if that matters so drifting is the right word. I got a blinker and an intentional lane change. I noticed you have stalks - are you on HW4 with a retrofit stalks or with a HW3 with a yoke? Or something else?

This is my HW3 Model Y with aftermarket yoke. We also own a HW4 Model Y that exhibits the same behavior.

 

[Vines]

After FSD turned on the blinker to change lanes on a 3 lane divided highway over a well-marked yellow painted shoulder and headed into the well-marked concrete divider I canceled my subscription. I had been an owner of FSD in my previous model 3 for 4 years and 140k miles.

There is no way that is safe to give agency to FSD beta to make lane changes when it is changing lanes over a yellow line into the shoulder on a divided freeway.

I also experienced a similar experience with a 1 lane undivided highway, when a turn came up with a dedicated lane either left or right. It would swerve at full speed into the turn lane then run out of room and be forced back onto the highway.

 

[Resist]

Bottom line - not sure how much you trust FSD, but man was I happy I was paying attention...

Well, you should never trust FSD and always be alert and in control. I think the problem is that as it gets better we do end up trusting it and that's why there are accidents, even death, when using it. We have to remember it's still in beta, but hopefully at some point we will be able to fall asleep at the wheel or let the car drive us home from a night out drinking.

 

[heymull]

Still a Tesla newbie, so I have to ask: is it necessary to set your Software preference to "Advanced" to receive the latest software v11.4.7? Or can one expect to receive this update using "Standard" (which is what I have been using since I picked up the car on Friday July 7, 2023). Thank you.

 

[KArnold]

is it necessary to set your Software preference to "Advanced" to receive the latest software v11.4.7?

Theoretically no.

I'm sure many will disagree with me but here in the MidWest it doesn't seem to make any difference. I'm always 3 to 4 weeks behind most. I'm not complaining - with the new bugs they introduce with EVERY release, I prefer y'all to identify those early on and post here so I can make an informed decision whether to install or skip.

It's kind of like the dummy thermostat installed in the house for my wife. Keeps her happy but non- functional.

 

[heymull]

Theoretically no.

I'm sure many will disagree with me but here in the MidWest it doesn't seem to make any difference. I'm always 3 to 4 weeks behind most. I'm not complaining - with the new bugs they introduce with EVERY release, I prefer y'all to identify those early on and post here so I can make an informed decision whether to install or skip.

It's kind of like the dummy thermostat installed in the house for my wife. Keeps her happy but non- functional.

Thank you for that reply. When I get back into the car this afternoon, I'll switch Software preference back to "Standard".

 

[Resist]

Thank you for that reply. When I get back into the car this afternoon, I'll switch Software preference back to "Standard".

Look, just keep it as Advanced you will end up getting the updates a tad sooner, if available for your car. Tesla really didn't even need to have these two settings.

 

[voyager]

https://twitter.com/x/status/1710472303526531583

 

[Resist]

https://twitter.com/x/status/1710472303526531583

Not sure what your point was by showing this recreation. Tesla has said for a long time that the driver should always maintain control of the vehicle because the software is in beta. But instead people still want to trust it completely and not pay attention and that's on them. If someone ends up killing themself because they ignored what Tesla told them, I really don't care. But what I do care about is that these selfish drivers could end up killing someone else. And it's because of those situations that I wish Tesla didn't release FSD to everyone and did all the testing in house. Because there are too many drivers with bad driving habits to begin with, giving them access to the FSD beta or even Autopilot jeopardizes other people's safety. Yet this is just another example of blaming everyone but the person responsible...the driver.

 

[heymull]

Look, just keep it as Advanced you will end up getting the updates a tad sooner, if available for your car. Tesla really didn't even need to have these two settings.

I did get the latest update after I switched it to Advanced. I'm glad I asked, thanks.

 

[Marktm250]

I thought this might be a better thread to post my recent FIRST TIME experience with FSD. Note that I have added some additional comments after reading through these posts with similar experiences:

Just got FSD downloaded in my new Model Y. Some comments on a 200 mile trip consisting of mainly highways (no freeways),but passing through several small towns:

• FSD did not know what to do with flashing red lights - one time would have gone right through without stopping. Another time would have pulled directly out into both oncoming lanes with lots of traffic. A panic stop was needed
• When approaching a 4 way stop in a high speed highway that did not have reduced speed limits as the stop sign was approached, it kept at 65 mph until I had to do a panic stop -obvious it was going to do a last minute four wheel lock up (maybe??) unless I intervened.
• When pulling out from a back country road onto a high speed two lane country highway, there was no way the FSD recognized high speed oncoming traffic and would pull out (rather slowly) essentially directly in front of oncoming traffic. I had to panic stop as it tried to pull out. This happened more than once (ok, I'm a slow learner). From watching the visualization screen closely, the oncoming vehicles are not recognized at nearly far enough distance to be safe in these instances.
• "Phantom" brakes a number times - mostly for seemingly no reason - at least could not see anything on the visualization screen.
• Many fully obvious speed limit signs were ignored. When slower speed limits were approached, the braking was very harsh - a "tailgater" could ram you if inattentive for sure. IMO - don't use any form of autopilot when you have an extreme tailgater - too much phantom braking.
• Really twisty roads seemed to fool the position of oncoming autos into thinking they were in your lane (mainly right tight turns) and brakes were heavily applied.
• Many times FSD kept in an inappropriate lane ahead of the actual turn, e.g. it waited much too late to safely get into the actual turn lane especially in heavy traffic. One time it wanted to turn into a left lane (with blinkers on) when the route clearly indicated a right turn. I'm guessing it would have looped around somehow if I'd not taken control.
• When no "navigation" route is in place and what I believe is the enhanced autopilot working, the lane keeping was simply exceptional compared to my ProPilot Nissan Leaf. I found that very useful and with confidence on open stretches of rural highways. Adjusting the speed setpoint with the steering wheel dial was great. This I hopefully will keep when the 3 months trial of FSD is done.
• Note that this was the first trip using the "autopilot/FSD" features and I likely do not have optimal "switches" in place for my style of driving (essentially every feature is turned on!). HOWEVER, I will not use FSD under most circumstances - simply too many dangerous actions occur that require close driver attention. With the (no) skill levels of most drivers around me, I would not use FSD in most heavy traffic situations. However when there's essentially no traffic, I did enjoy "playing" with it. Self Driving - really?

 

[KArnold]

Spot on. You are preaching to the choir.