Is Autopilot that much better than Competitors?

[drsaab]

Can you share some details about what it's like to drive using the s550 system?

I have the older 2011 system which is distronic plus with stop and go. Basically you never need to touch the gas or brake on the highway, even in rush hour. The only 2 things that fool the system are traffic lights. It can not stop there on its own. And if a Car is at a full stop and your coming up at 60mph etc behind it. You need to brake. If that car is moving at say 20 mph, the distronic plus will brake and also alert you to "super brake" if you get too close. "super brake" is where the brakes are pumped and you just tap them for full braking power. This is part of front collision assist.

The 2014 S550 now steers. I don't have that. but there are many youtube videos of it.

 

[Canuck]

As an software engineer, I know that people that understand the innards of a technology often have different metrics than an observer or consumer on the outside. Further, with the 80/20 rule, each advance gets harder to achieve and yet, looks smaller from the outside.

For example, there's a video of a BMW 3 series going around a racetrack using GPS only. They pre-mapped the course as far as I can tell from the video. So from an outsider, it looks like the BMW 3 series can drive itself around the racecourse very effectively, they should be ready to stick it into production cars and my car can drive me to work, right? Well, no. But the video looks pretty good.

So I take it from what you're telling us is that this is basically a lot of hype and not something that we will see until many years down the down road and probably not even with the current hardware?:

Elon Musk Reveals Tesla D Can Park Itself, Greet Drivers

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I have the older 2011 system which is distronic plus with stop and go. Basically you never need to touch the gas or brake on the highway, even in rush hour.

Do you use it all the time, some of the time, never?

 

[drsaab]

Do you use it all the time, some of the time, never?[/QUOTE]


In my 110 mile daily commute, I use it 109 miles. Everywhere except the neighborhood I would not buy another car without this. Therefore I am finally looking into Tesla. But still I do not know how long the software will take. The hardware is useless till the software comes along.

The sales agent said they components are mobile eye and bosch which is what MB uses, and it will be the same as MB setup basically. Tesla is probably going to go a little riskier with longer hands free and there video game dash display of all cars around you is quite cool.

 

[majorlance]

I test drove a 2015 Audi A8 with assist about a month ago and it was very impressive. It worked flawlessly in Beltway (DC) stop and go traffic. Lane control would gently push the car to the center of the lane if you drifted but you could easily change lanes without forcing things (or turning on the signal). On country roads the lane system wouldn't work if there wasn't a line on the shoulder. Also, it gave up on intersections.

I took my hands off the wheel at one point on the highway and it warned me to "Place hands on the steering wheel".

I didn't test red lights, stop signs or emergency accident avoidance.

The Audi A7 has the same system, I was told. Also, my understanding is that the Mercedes S550 is more sophisticated but I didn't get any details nor drive one...

I have a new P85D on order and am really looking forward to it. I hope that the autopilot features are up to par with at least what I experienced in the Audi once implemented (which shouldn't be past February/March, I hope).

 

[Canuck]

In my 110 mile daily commute, I use it 109 miles. Everywhere except the neighborhood I would not buy another car without this.

Damn! I was hoping you'd say it was an interesting gimmick at first but driving yourself is so much better than letting the car drive you. Oh well, I guess it's like high definition tv. You don't really know what you're missing, until you see it. So I'll try staying away from trying it out as long as I can because once I do, I can already see me talking myself into taking a big hit on my car and getting a new one...

 

[ScepticMatt]

Not sure if this is the right place to post this but it seems Audi has beaten Tesla to the punch, at least what they showed in public.

Audi demoed a A7 doing auto-steering, auto-lane changing and auto-overtaking on the German A9 Autobahn.
Realbedingungen: Audi A7 fhrt autonom auf der A9 - Golem.de

 

[green1]

Not sure if this is the right place to post this but it seems Audi has beaten Tesla to the punch, at least what they showed in public.

Audi demoed a A7 doing auto-steering, auto-lane changing and auto-overtaking on the German A9 Autobahn.
Realbedingungen: Audi A7 fhrt autonom auf der A9 - Golem.de

Doing a demo of a vehicle you can't yet buy doesn't put them ahead of Tesla, Tesla has also already done a demo of self driving. Now it's about who actually makes it to market first. I'm betting Tesla, but it's hard to be sure with Tesla's proven track record of timely releases....

In fact, if comparing the two, I'd say Tesla is further ahead, at least Tesla has already announced the pricing for the option, Audi has yet to do so.

 

[Saghost]

Doing a demo of a vehicle you can't yet buy doesn't put them ahead of Tesla, Tesla has also already done a demo of self driving. Now it's about who actually makes it to market first. I'm betting Tesla, but it's hard to be sure with Tesla's proven track record of timely releases....

This. In particular, every Tesla you buy today (or for the last six months,) will eventually be able to have a level of autopilot beyond what Audi demonstrated on their demo car.

Audis sold this year don't have that - and never will. Audi may incorporate the technology in a year or two, perhaps - but in a sense, Tesla has already stolen the march on them, because anyone who's done the research and is buying today knows that a Tesla bought today will have that ability, and an Audi bought today won't.

 

[green1]

This. In particular, every Tesla you buy today (or for the last six months,) will eventually be able to have a level of autopilot beyond what Audi demonstrated on their demo car.

While I'm mostly in agreement with your point, be careful with that assertion, it sounds like it's more likely that they will be roughly the same.

Tesla right now appears to have mostly caught up with what the competition is offering for "self driving" features with TACC, parking sensors, blind spot detection, speed sign detection, lane departure warning, and auto braking. The only part I can think of right now that others offer that Tesla doesn't is the self-parallel parking that is common on much lower end vehicles.

If Tesla's next update lives up to Elon's hype Tesla will have leapfrogged to the front of the pack, but expect to see other companies catch up "quickly" (1-2 years) So the pressure is on Tesla to keep delivering.

 

[Saghost]

While I'm mostly in agreement with your point, be careful with that assertion, it sounds like it's more likely that they will be roughly the same.

Tesla right now appears to have mostly caught up with what the competition is offering for "self driving" features with TACC, parking sensors, blind spot detection, speed sign detection, lane departure warning, and auto braking. The only part I can think of right now that others offer that Tesla doesn't is the self-parallel parking that is common on much lower end vehicles.

If Tesla's next update lives up to Elon's hype Tesla will have leapfrogged to the front of the pack, but expect to see other companies catch up "quickly" (1-2 years) So the pressure is on Tesla to keep delivering.

I'm also expecting Tesla to tie the Nav and interchange lane requirements into Autopilot - so the car will navigate itself from the on ramp to the right off ramp. While that technology is in some demo cars, I haven't seen any mention of it in this demo (or, in fairness, in Tesla's Autopilot announcement - I'm expecting to see it anyway, though probably not in 7.0.)

 

[donv]

No, they don't have even the level that Audi demonstrated. The Tesla autopilot can't change lanes on it's own, without human intervention.

The Tesla can do no more than the Infiniti system, which has been on the market for a couple of years. Tesla is barely catching up to the other players, but has done a much better job of publicizing what they're doing-- and seems to be much less afraid of liability (for which I applaud them!).

This. In particular, every Tesla you buy today (or for the last six months,) will eventually be able to have a level of autopilot beyond what Audi demonstrated on their demo car.

 

[chriSharek]

Really? I suggest you put the Tesla on a narrow and twisting alpine back road and I'll be happy to see the results.

The systems available e.g. for the Mercedes S-Class are more likely restricted in their abilities for legal rather than for technological reasons. As to the feature of the car going off to park itself and to return when called - I'm sure that it's just a huge lawsuit waiting to happen. How many people will really put it to use at home rather than to call the car when it's pouring down and they don't want to cross a public parking lot in such conditions?

BTW, is Tesla's technology its own or do they get it from some supplier?

Boy Just a Reader! We can hear your German pride through your posts! It's almost as if you don't WANT us to catch up. But, we have and Elon is leading us past the Germans furtehr and further every day!

 

[Just a Reader]

Boy Just a Reader! We can hear your German pride through your posts! It's almost as if you don't WANT us to catch up. But, we have and Elon is leading us past the Germans furtehr and further every day!

Digging out a post that's five months old and getting all worked up about it? What's the matter? Fanboy enthusiasm overload? :smile:

The issue with Tesla is that's difficult to understand for a customer who doesn't follow this kind of forum what the car actually delivers, what may be delivered by firmware update, what's hype and what is downright bunkum. Tesla's German homepage claims that the Model S parks itself on its own at a Supercharger stall, that it parks itself in your garage and that it will leave your garage and wait in front of your door - all that without any driver being in the car. To my knowledge the car does nothing of this.
They have now added some disclaimer that these things will be implemented over time, yet it is difficult to see for a normal customer to see what the car really does do and there is no way to find out when the other features will be added. Tesla may count itself lucky that competitors haven't initiated legal action because of deceptive advertising already.

 

[Canuck]

Tesla may count itself lucky that competitors haven't initiated legal action because of deceptive advertising already.

There's nothing "lucky" about it. In a civil action, you must prove damages. That means in this case you have to find people who said they bought a Tesla over the competitor's car simply because of a feature that Tesla promised but was not available. That's a difficult hurdle in itself because you won't find many of those people (if any at all) so the damages are extremely low, plus Tesla is clear in its paperwork that certain advertised features are currently not available so it would likely be dismissed on that basis even if you could find Plaintiffs with legal standing.

But I do like how the German automaker fans are suddenly on the defensive and threatening lawsuits to try to keep their market share. That share is going to shrink greatly in the coming years - and by an new AMERICAN auto company! Who would have thought that just a few years ago! GO USA!!! (except when you play us in Olympic hockey!).

 

[schonelucht]

There's nothing "lucky" about it. In a civil action, you must prove damages.

Tesla is selling in jurisdictions where this is not necessarily a requirement.

 

[Canuck]

Tesla is selling in jurisdictions where this is not necessarily a requirement.

Instead of making things up, please name just one.

 

[Stoneymonster]

Instead of making things up, please name just one.

Yes please, so I can avoid living there!

 

[Just a Reader]

There's nothing "lucky" about it. In a civil action, you must prove damages. That means in this case you have to find people who said they bought a Tesla over the competitor's car simply because of a feature that Tesla promised but was not available. That's a difficult hurdle in itself because you won't find many of those people (if any at all) so the damages are extremely low, plus Tesla is clear in its paperwork that certain advertised features are currently not available so it would likely be dismissed on that basis even if you could find Plaintiffs with legal standing.

There are few better ways to make a complete fool out of yourself than by making statements about legal issues in jurisdictions you know nothing about. Under German law it is a violation of competition law to make untrue public statements about relevant features of your product. Competitors and consumer groups can pursue legal redress without proving any concrete damages.
I'm glad that I was able to assist you in understanding this issue.

There is also a massive double standard at work when some people in this forum get all worked up if they believe that some journalist or whoever dared to publish something about Tesla that Tesla-fans perceive as not being 100% accurate, yet wildly inaccurate statements by Tesla about features of their product are simply being shrugged off.

 

[jbcarioca]

...
There is also a massive ouble standard at work when some people in this forum get all worked up if they believe that some journalist or whoever dared to publish something about Tesla that Tesla-fans perceive as not being 100% accurate, yet wildly inaccurate statements by Tesla about features of their product are simply being shrugged off.

I, a Tesla fan, agree with Just a reader that it is difficult for a normal person to know what is planned, is being prepared to be released and what has been released. I am confused about that. I suspect many people are. there is no doubt in my mind that the moment tesla grows to be 'mainstream' the current profess will be called 'vapourware' by the kind people and 'deceptive sales practice' by unkind ones. One need not dislike tesla or Elon Musk to admit that he is prone to hyperbole, and hyperbole is a dangerous practice in business.

 

[breser]

People have been getting worked up about them over stating the capabilities from the start. However, I've yet to see Tesla be anything but honest about this. They've always had the disclaimers and unlike a lot of things they aren't just in fine print. I don't really see what the problem is as long as Tesla delivers. Unless you're complaining about how fast they're rolling things out I don't think you have much to complain about. Even that seems to be coming fairly quickly.

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I, a Tesla fan, agree with Just a reader that it is difficult for a normal person to know what is planned, is being prepared to be released and what has been released. I am confused about that. I suspect many people are. there is no doubt in my mind that the moment tesla grows to be 'mainstream' the current profess will be called 'vapourware' by the kind people and 'deceptive sales practice' by unkind ones. One need not dislike tesla or Elon Musk to admit that he is prone to hyperbole, and hyperbole is a dangerous practice in business.

What is so difficult about this.