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Is Bolt better than Honda HRV?
- Thread starter Vitold
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- Electric Vehicles
You're right - you don't see much information about the ICE cars GM wants the Bolt to compete with.
I suspect that's related to GM's message on the car. As a rather insightful article i saw recently contrasting the two pointed out, GM's message hasn't been 'this is better than those ICE cars' but more 'this will be the best electric car.'
GM isn't looking to steal buyers from ICE cars - they just want to be the first choice of buyers who are explicitly looking for an electric car (and presumably can't afford a Tesla.)
Seen from this perspective, a lot of their decisions make more sense - including the failure to develop a DCFC network.
(Of course, that still leaves Tesla a much better choice for anyone who really does want an electric car, but apparently that hasn't sunk in at GM yet.)
JohnSnowNW
Active Member
Both have 56 cu ft for cargo. Both seat 5.
One has been clocked at 0-60 mph = 9.5 seconds. One will apparently be quite a bit quicker.
One has a long hood, hence requires more parking room.
One gets barely better fuel economy than a pickup truck. One is electric.
One has GM digital controls, one is a Honda.
One has been clocked at 0-60 mph = 9.5 seconds. One will apparently be quite a bit quicker.
One has a long hood, hence requires more parking room.
One gets barely better fuel economy than a pickup truck. One is electric.
One has GM digital controls, one is a Honda.
I'm not sure how failing to participate in developing a DCFC network is consistent with appealing to be the first choice of buyers looking for an electric car.
I still suspect that GM will pull the:
* "it's a series hybrid"
* "we're only making hybrids that plugin"
switcheroo act like they did with the Volt and Malibu hybrid and suddenly announce the product they had been denying all along.
I don't expect them to build a GM-branded CCS station network but I do think they will end up materially participating in some multi-company effort to seed interstate CCS charging infrastructure.
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I'm not sure how failing to participate in developing a DCFC network is consistent with appealing to be the first choice of buyers looking for an electric car.
It isn't, exactly. What I was trying to say is that GM seems to be much more focused on the car compared to existing alternatives EVs than the new EV ecosystem or what it would take to make the car compete with ICE cars on equal terms. Or at least, that's my impression - I thought this Yahoo article was especially interesting in that regard:
The Chevy Bolt-Tesla Model 3 Rivalry Is Bullshit
I reckon that GM's target audience are existing Leaf owners and other limited range EV drivers look to get more range.I'm not sure how failing to participate in developing a DCFC network is consistent with appealing to be the first choice of buyers looking for an electric car.
They can't possibly build out a network quickly enough to compete with Tesla now, so they're going for the owners who don't need the supercharger network - which is why they can only expect to sell 30-50K cars a year.
Remember that they aren't looking to compete against their ICE cars, only in what they see as the limited EV market.
By the time the Model 3 reveal part two is over, Tesla is likely to have way north of 500K orders, ten times the number that GM expect to sell.
If GM underestimate Bolt demand, it will take them a very long time to ramp up.
SageBrush
REJECT Fascism
JohnSnowNW
Active Member
No. I bought a Leaf because they're ridiculously cheap, and available here. The Bolt would be more expensive, but I'd still only be able to go the same distance outside of the Metro...because there are no DCFC chargers (outside of the city) in my "fly over" State.
SageBrush
REJECT Fascism
If you are right then the basket of cross-shoppers between the Bolt and some other car is shrinking rapidly. Perhaps the Chevy Volt ?
Having seen some of GM marketing, I could believe a thinly veiled attempt to confuse their customers between the two cars.
JohnSnowNW
Active Member
I was initially looking at the Volt...same problem with cost though. The Leaf SV is $250/month,$1,000 down payment, 12k miles/yr. The Volt LT was $400/month, 3k down payment, 10k miles/month.
The Volt is easily the better deal when compared to the Bolt, but not everyone buys vehicles with value as the leading determinate. That said, some States have better charging infrastructure, and more incentives.
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I know what you mean on that. The charge opportunities are improving in my area but I tend to stay within the 50% range of my car unless I do pre-planning. But most of the places I want to drive to have no charging, so I end up going ICE.
Getting a Bolt for me would open up the area in reach, even with most charging done at home.
The main reason I'm going Model 3 instead is that I don't want a Sonic EV or a Leaf type car any more - I want an Audi or BMW equivalent.
And also something that is performance forward like Tesla ("we don't make slow cars") rather than economy forward like Chevy.
[edited for stupid spelling mistakes]
stopcrazypp
Well-Known Member
That is exactly what I see. And this strategy is what most large automakers use when designing EVs. Rather than competing in the overall car market (as Tesla is doing), they compete inside a smaller "EV market". When you view things through this lens, the design decisions and target volume (30k-50k) makes sense. The Bolt would be a perfect tool to steal sales from the Leaf, but it might not steal many sales from ICE cars.
Yet, if Bolt is competing with Leafs, Soul EVs, etc it does NOT have to have >200mile range. If you want all around town EV - 150 mile range is plenty (including heating and AC).
I think that GM is calculating that government will build needed infrastructure for them. Just like by advertising Bolt price "after incentives" GM is putting pressure to extend EV incentives.
Jbailey
Member
Looks to me like GM is going after the Ford Fiesta not Tesla. The Bolt looks to have the same HP, 0-60 time and general body shape as the Ford Fiesta. Its a bit more expensive though. Maybe with the gas money savings current Ford Fiesta drivers can afford to switch over...unless they pull it like they did the EV-1 that is.
This is what we're hoping for if the interior specs bear out and able to dump our ICE CR-V and combine with the Fiat 500e+SparkEV.
Range anxiety for local metro daily hauls will be resolved with the 200+ mile EV that our SparkEV simply doesn't handle the 'soccer parent' family car duties where our 500e is too small for the family+dog.
While the supercharger network is nice, traditional car companies will rely on energy companies (or retailers if mass adoption does occur) to provide the network. If I'm going to go on a 100+ mile trip, I'm looking for destinations -- not 1-2 hour pitstops in no-where. The concept of sitting along the highway for even for 1 hour is a head scratcher to me. Major retailer/malls will install chargers in mass if it makes sense to draw in customers. Here in San Diego, many mall retailers already doing so to get to green compliance status.
Model 3 will replace hopefully replace the G37 and that leaves only the MiniVan that's not electrified.
Range anxiety for local metro daily hauls will be resolved with the 200+ mile EV that our SparkEV simply doesn't handle the 'soccer parent' family car duties where our 500e is too small for the family+dog.
While the supercharger network is nice, traditional car companies will rely on energy companies (or retailers if mass adoption does occur) to provide the network. If I'm going to go on a 100+ mile trip, I'm looking for destinations -- not 1-2 hour pitstops in no-where. The concept of sitting along the highway for even for 1 hour is a head scratcher to me. Major retailer/malls will install chargers in mass if it makes sense to draw in customers. Here in San Diego, many mall retailers already doing so to get to green compliance status.
Model 3 will replace hopefully replace the G37 and that leaves only the MiniVan that's not electrified.
Red Sage
The Cybernetic Samurai
I have long suspected that the Chevrolet BOLT was conceived as a direct competitor to the Honda FIT EV. But Honda killed the FIT EV before the BOLT was officially announced. I still believe that the BOLT was originally going to be an ICE car, but when Tesla Motors became popular, GM hastily decided to release it as an EV instead.
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