This might be a dumb question but I'm not super up to speed with the hw3/hw4 stuff and considering the FSD transfer. Is the selling point for hw4 that it has more eventual potential than hw3, or is it currently better (maybe less phantom breaking or better on city streets?) than FSD with hw3 too?
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Is FSD w/ hardware 4 currently better than w/ hardware 3?
- Thread starter tander
- Start date
fasteddie7
Active Member
So far, it’s about the same making the same errors in the same places, with the exception of camera quality (the view I use to see oncoming traffic is drastically improved when turning, and the auto wipers seem to behave more like cars with actual rain sensors.
There is a thread in the model 3 subforum where they are saying "FSD doesnt work at all on HW4". I asked "are you talking about FSD Beta or FSD since those are different" and the reply was "FSD doesnt work on HW4 currently".
Since I am not invested in this, I dont really know the status personally.
teslamotorsclub.com
Since I am not invested in this, I dont really know the status personally.
3-month FSD 'free' on new HW4 cars is useless
Who else is in this boat, you get a brand new HW4 car, you get the 3-month-free FSD only to find it's not enabled on HW4 yet? And guess what, the timer starts the moment you take delivery, even though there's nothing yet available to you. Pretty outrageous tbh.
teslamotorsclub.com
Damn Tesla and their FSD nomenclature confusion. There is NO SUCH thing as just FSD.
EDIT: Just to answer the OP. FSD Capability can be bought or subscribed to on any car. FSD Beta 11.3.6 will NOT work on HW4. HW4 requires FSD Beta 11.4.x of higher which you can't get on new cars now. Any new HW4 will have to wait until Tesla release a stable version of 11.4.x into the general software.
- FSD Capability package (what you buy or can subscribe)
- FSD Computer (name of HW3/HW4)
- FSD Beta (aka: Autosteer on with streets is a software Tesla allows you to "test" before it is release)
EDIT: Just to answer the OP. FSD Capability can be bought or subscribed to on any car. FSD Beta 11.3.6 will NOT work on HW4. HW4 requires FSD Beta 11.4.x of higher which you can't get on new cars now. Any new HW4 will have to wait until Tesla release a stable version of 11.4.x into the general software.
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clydeiii
Member
There IS such a thing as FSB non-beta software...it's what you have when you don't opt-in to the beta builds. The software is pretty trash (ex: it requires you to confirm passing through green lights on city streets) but it exists nevertheless.
clydeiii
Member
IDK, someone said "are you talking about FSD Beta or FSD since those are different" and then another person said "There is NO SUCH thing as just FSD" and all I'm saying is there is definitely such a thing as "just FSD." I agree that Tesla has done themselves no favors here by their naming and braching of software.
Regardless there are two different things; FSD/FSD Capability and FSD Beta. The Beta portion has always been and still is separate.
.....and the FSD Computer too.
Just people throw out the term FSD often themselves not knowing or conflating Capability pkg, features in the package and/or Beta. Of course it is more shame on Tesla but....
MY1stEV
Member
I think all we know at this point is that HW4 has higher resolution cameras and a faster processor. Will that faster processor result in better FSD performance than HW3, or was it necessary simply to handle the higher bandwidth of the new cameras? We don't know yet.
It's kind of like the 2170 vs 4680 batteries. People claimed when the 4680 batteries became available we'd be seeing Teslas with 500 mile range. Well, the 4680 is here now and the performance is on par with the 2170 at best. The potential still theoretically exists, but the current reality is we haven't gained anything yet. I think HW4 will be like that for awhile too.
clydeiii
Member
This is what we know for sure: at the moment, we are SOFTWARE LIMITED, meaning the thing holding us back from better FSD is the software, not the hardware. How do we know this? Because the software keeps getting better under HW3. You might not like the rate of improvement, but unquestionably it has gotten better over the last 3 years since its 2020 public release, while the hardware hasn't improved at all. Will the software be better with HW4? Seems likely, but since the software is the main bottleneck for now, whatever incremental improvements HW4 provides over HW3 are simply noise at the moment.
There can be an argument made that the rate of improvement has come to almost a halt since 10.69 and many don't believe HW3, which is maxed out currently, nor the camera placement can achieve level 3-5 ADAS, which means we would be hardware limited as well.
No one knows if HW3 or HW4 can ever deliver actual FSD, not even Tesla at this stage (though they are obviously extremely hopeful).
clydeiii
Member
As someone who has used 10.69 and 11.4.x, I can 100% say there has been some improvement. Maybe not as fast as one would hope, but improvements for sure (ex: roundabouts on my commute are much better in recent builds). They're in the process of yanking out old logic-based code and replacing it with neural nets. Clearly you're going to get some improvements and some disimprovements.
That's anecdotal. I'd say the opposite as would many here, but my point is that it's not absolute that there are not hardware bottlenecks in HW3 currently and certainly going forward considering that we do know Tesla dropped redundancy in HW3 due to needing more resources.
Even if you factor in small, specific improvements, that doesn't show anything outside of better training data. FSD has consistently had an issue with perception and according to who you are asking; object kinematic estimates and latency. We all hope these can be solved with better programming, but we simply don't know at this point and like I said, Tesla doesn't know either. No one knows until the wall is absolutely hit.
Don't care. Straighten out the stuff that Hardware 3 can do and it'll be a useful product. If I can just sit there and watch the traffic around me without having to hold the wheel then I'll be a happy man. If I'm still around in 10 years or so, I'll replace my car and happily move up to some system that doesn't even require me to watch traffic conditions. I may not have access to robotaxis, but I doubt they will be much of a panacea anyway because there's always a reason we can't have nice things.
clydeiii
Member
In general, completely agree, we don't really know where the wall is. Recent remarks from Elon seem to indicate that they have realized the problem is simplier than they realized...unclear what that means, but perhaps suggests that end-to-end neural nets are the breakthrough we need here, or some other such innovation in other AI research that Tesla has been sleeping on. For example, the RT-2 model by Google announced last week has promising implications for self-driving cars.
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