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Is pge Equity Resiliency program taxable?
- Thread starter h2ofun
- Start date
That would be good enough for me to not claim it and let them audit me, if my tax guy agrees. Since I would be looking at a lot of tax, ....
ucmndd
Well-Known Member
I consider the SGIP rebate analogous to any of the other rebate/incentive programs I've received over the years for everything from purchasing electric vehicles, efficient air conditioners, smart thermostats, etc.
I didn't pay tax on the $2000 I got from the state for my car purchase, or the $3,000 from the local air pollution control district for the same purchase, or the $800 from PG&E, etc etc etc, and I think it would be weird to expect any of that WOULD be taxable. I paid sales tax for the pre-rebate price of the car (as I will for the Powerwalls no doubt) - taxing the rebate would seem to be a double tax.
I didn't pay tax on the $2000 I got from the state for my car purchase, or the $3,000 from the local air pollution control district for the same purchase, or the $800 from PG&E, etc etc etc, and I think it would be weird to expect any of that WOULD be taxable. I paid sales tax for the pre-rebate price of the car (as I will for the Powerwalls no doubt) - taxing the rebate would seem to be a double tax.
ucmndd
Well-Known Member
This is my interpretation of how it works, and the figure my SGIP equity resiliency reservation amount is based on.
SGIP equity resiliency incentive = (installed price) - (26% ITC)
That's how it was explained to me by the installer and how it was approved by SGIP.
Equity Resiliency is 100%, no ITC.
The other sgip programs, where you get percentages, I believe get the 26% ITC this year. They are not the equity resiliency program
ucmndd
Well-Known Member
I have a confirmed equity resiliency reservation. My installer, who I admit may or may not know what they’re doing, submitted the application such that the expected ITC reduced the amount of the ER reservation. In other words:
2 Powerwalls plus install and panel upgrade: $25k
Anticipated 26% ITC: $6,500
Confirmed Equity Resiliency reservation amount: $18,500
(rough numbers, don’t have the contract and letter right in front of me)
Like I said, they may or may not know what they’re doing, but it gets me to zero in any case, and I have a confirmed reservation letter, so we’re forging ahead.
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Yes, the small scale residential, large scale residential (non-equity in both instances) are the way you stated. Basically the SGIP form requires you to enter the gross transaction amount, then subtract the ITC. From there, there's a separate calc based on the size of the system that determines the amount of the SGIP.
My understanding is that customers under ER aren't supposed to actually pay anything. So a person getting a Powerwall under this program would not have an ITC for the battery. Otherwise it would be weird since they'd effectively make money by buying the Powerwall since they'd get a free battery then get a 26% ITC during tax time.
Maybe I'm mistaken, it's the same for both Equity and Equity Resiliency. If there's anything paid up front to be refunded later by the IRS... this would mean a low-income person would have to pay the 26% of the ITC now (to get the return later) and they usually cannot afford it.
The "Equity" moniker was meant to describe that all Cali residents had equal access to the SGIP. That's why the Equity programs have more money than non-Equity.
ucmndd
Well-Known Member
In the end, yes - although right now the only way to do that in practice without anything out of pocket is to work with some third party nonprofits the utilities are pushing people toward who basically front the money to the installer and then wait for the normal SGIP process to play out to get reimbursed.
I agree the existing process is really a mess for low income folks that the program may have been initially targeted at - though given the existing requirements and the substantial up-front outlay required I suspect very little of this money is actually going to low-income households (strong tilt toward “resiliency” vs “equity”).
Yep, do not believe they know what they are talking about. ER program, is 100% paid for. There is no ITC. One gets a check from SPIG for 25K. Unless they know something I am missing. Nothing may be on my taxes.
That is how it started, and the folks with wells were taking way too much money. This is why they changed the rules for well, and added a number of extra rules, one was an income cap.
ucmndd
Well-Known Member
Out of curiosity, do you have a confirmed reservation letter for Equity Resiliency that was calculated a different way?
Just says confirmed incentive amount. There is no ITC. Nothing is related to taxes. What does your reservation letter say?
There is nothing calculated. Meaning, you ask for the number of batteries support by the green button data, and the amount is
1K per KW. So as an example, 2 batteries is like 26K.
ucmndd
Well-Known Member
Here’s a screen cap from my application the way it was submitted and approved (my reservation letter is for the “calculated incentive” amount).
Sounds like they probably could have put the ITC in as 0%, so the entire project amount carried through and was funded by SGIP - maybe that’s even the way they should have done it - but I guess that ship has sailed.
Although, getting back to the original topic of this thread, if they are going to indeed 1099 me for the check they cut, this would seem to be a potentially advantageous approach...
I admit I continue to learn. I have nothing like what you post, or at least what I have been sent.
So, are you paying cash for these 2 PW's? The only why I am aware of being able to get a ITC is if one pays for it, but maybe I am wrong.
Are you going to get cash back from SGIP? The 25K cost seems to be the 1K per KW. So, how did you quailfy for ER? Well or medical baseline? 2 power outages or in a high fire danger? Maybe I am just totally missing something about how the program works.
So for others who have gotten SGIP money, ITC, etc. how did it work for you?
ucmndd
Well-Known Member
Yes, I’ll pay the installer cash at the end of the install for the full amount. Then they send in the incentive claim form and 6-9 months later it sounds like I get the reimbursement from SGIP. I also file my taxes and claim the 26% ITC, eventually making my out of pocket cost “$0”.
We qualified for ER as med baseline / high fire zone.
Okay, am totally confused.
For all you experts, can you please help example to me what the processes are for the different SGIP programs.
From what I had understood, first there were progams from SGIP what provided different funding levels, steps?, with only so much per step. I heard these steps ran out of money very quickly. I assume the process was one put in their application, and got approval. Then the customer would pay the installer 100% of the money to install. After install, they would apply to get back the sgip portion. Then the customer on their taxes would apply for the tax credit and take off what they owe. So, it would take time to get all the money back. Now, maybe some installers up fronted the refunds money so the customer only up front paid the non ITC and sgip money? But would have to pay the installer once these happened? I know one person I talked to said he ended up paying 50% of cost based on these two credits, but I never asked him how and when he paid.
Now for the ER program, since this covers 100% of battery cost and installation, there are two ways to fund. One is to pay cash for all of it up front, and then wait to get it all back from SGIP which can take 6 to 12 months after PTO. The other is to get a loan, and pay for it monthly until which time one gets the SGIP money. I guess one can keep the money and keep paying the loan, or pay off the loan.
So, am totally confused when some are saying they are doing the ER program, but getting ITC? Also it is not clear how they qualified, meaning you have to have a well, and now meet max income, primary home, and 100% well, plus 2 power outages or high fire area. The other is medical baseline, and 2 power outages or high fire.
And then it sound like some maybe doing this process for ER? They pay up front for the batteries. They then take the ITC for this amount? Then when they get 100% of this back from SGIP, what do they do? Nothing? Say it was income via 1099? What if these two events happen over two tax years?
Any other questions I missed and do not understand?
For all you experts, can you please help example to me what the processes are for the different SGIP programs.
From what I had understood, first there were progams from SGIP what provided different funding levels, steps?, with only so much per step. I heard these steps ran out of money very quickly. I assume the process was one put in their application, and got approval. Then the customer would pay the installer 100% of the money to install. After install, they would apply to get back the sgip portion. Then the customer on their taxes would apply for the tax credit and take off what they owe. So, it would take time to get all the money back. Now, maybe some installers up fronted the refunds money so the customer only up front paid the non ITC and sgip money? But would have to pay the installer once these happened? I know one person I talked to said he ended up paying 50% of cost based on these two credits, but I never asked him how and when he paid.
Now for the ER program, since this covers 100% of battery cost and installation, there are two ways to fund. One is to pay cash for all of it up front, and then wait to get it all back from SGIP which can take 6 to 12 months after PTO. The other is to get a loan, and pay for it monthly until which time one gets the SGIP money. I guess one can keep the money and keep paying the loan, or pay off the loan.
So, am totally confused when some are saying they are doing the ER program, but getting ITC? Also it is not clear how they qualified, meaning you have to have a well, and now meet max income, primary home, and 100% well, plus 2 power outages or high fire area. The other is medical baseline, and 2 power outages or high fire.
And then it sound like some maybe doing this process for ER? They pay up front for the batteries. They then take the ITC for this amount? Then when they get 100% of this back from SGIP, what do they do? Nothing? Say it was income via 1099? What if these two events happen over two tax years?
Any other questions I missed and do not understand?
Interesting. So, you pay the installer 25K when done? THen you write this off on your taxes for 2020 and get back the 26% in lets say April for like 6500. THen at sometime in the future you get back the 18K from SGIP. So at the end of the day you are saying you have no money out of your pocket but have 2 free batteries? So you assume you do not have to pay any taxes on the 18K from SGIP?
Boy will I have to ask my installer about this. Since I got no form at all for my ER request like yours, I am just totally in the dark.
What are others experiences with ER and the tax/itc process?
I know this is an old thread. Did anyone get a final answer on this? Has anyone had to pay federal tax on the incentive? In my case, my incentive covered the cost of the battery (2 PW2s), gateway and all the hardware. I was charged a flat fee of $1500 for the installation. I was never asked for a SSN nor did I receive a 1099. Based on the legal citation earlier in this thread, I don't think the incentive is taxed. However, I'd like to be sure. I do intend to take the energy credit of 30% on the $1500 I paid out of pocket.
Thoughts?
Thoughts?
Consult your tax professional is as good as it gets.
Whether any one did or didn't is not IRS sanctioned guidance and should not, at least in my opinion be relied upon.
ucmndd
Well-Known Member
I did not pay any taxes, provide a SSN, receive a 1099, anything of the sort.
No feds have come knocking down my door yet, and it's been a couple years.
No feds have come knocking down my door yet, and it's been a couple years.
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