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Is the 35K Model 3 the pound for pound best vehicle?

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MXWing

Well-Known Member
Oct 13, 2016
7,749
24,194
USA
The answer with incentives is like asking if the Pope is Catholic.

Without incentives how does it rank versus any other car you put 35K on?

I’m not a fan boy but I felt no need to cross shop the 3P against C63 AMGs, BMW M3, Audi RS3 etc.

I knew whatever amount of crazy I would have to deal with, Tesla is just sex when you hit the “gas”.

It’s feels so cheap for a technological wonderland.
 
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The answer with incentives is like asking if the Pope is Catholic.

Without incentives how does it rank versus any other car you put 35K on?

I’m not a fan boy but I felt no need to cross shop the 3P against C63 AMGs, BMW M3, Audi RS3 etc.

I knew whatever amount of crazy I would have to deal with, Tesla is just sex when you hit the “gas”.

It’s feels so cheap for a technological
wonderland.
I think the 37k SR+ and 40k SR+ with AP will be the biggest takers here, thats how I see it anyway, that 2K gets WAY to much for all but Ebenezer to pass on and now that someone can get AP with auto steer for 3K extra I think that will be no#1 and #2 on the new best sellers list IMHO, Toyota and Honda should be shaking in their boots about now!
 
The $35k poverty spec isn't all that competitive with things like the Niro and Kona. You have to add maybe $10k of upgrades to bring it closer to their spec.

It's a little bit faster but the range is also a lot lower. There are issues with quality and servicing too in many places.

The Model 3 is also quite small, especially the boot/trunk area and the tiny little door. The water ingress problem is a big issue too.

It really depends what you are looking for.
 
The $35k poverty spec isn't all that competitive with things like the Niro and Kona. You have to add maybe $10k of upgrades to bring it closer to their spec.

It's a little bit faster but the range is also a lot lower. There are issues with quality and servicing too in many places.

The Model 3 is also quite small, especially the boot/trunk area and the tiny little door. The water ingress problem is a big issue too.

It really depends what you are looking for.

How much does it cost to add the supercharger option to the Niro and Kona?

Norway is also only 75% of the land mass of California so I need a sensible rebuttal of how the Niro and Kona will achieve coast to coast driving in countries like the US, Canada and China.
 
The $35k poverty spec isn't all that competitive with things like the Niro and Kona. You have to add maybe $10k of upgrades to bring it closer to their spec.

It's a little bit faster but the range is also a lot lower. There are issues with quality and servicing too in many places.

The Model 3 is also quite small, especially the boot/trunk area and the tiny little door. The water ingress problem is a big issue too.

It really depends what you are looking for.

You can always pay 43K for the Limited Hyundai.
 
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Yeah the Korean EVs have the full tax credit, HUD, sunroof, Android Auto, Car Play, heated steering wheel....and I think ventilated/cooling seats. Yeah...no supercharger....but one can argue that they use the other stuff more than supercharging.

One can also argue that they are going to be boring to drive and that they will suffer massive range degradation in just the first couple of years of ownership.... but I haven't driven either so I won't make that argument.

The $35,000 SR Model 3 is exactly the same car as the more expensive version, just with shorter range and fewer frills.

EXACT SAME CAR.

It's not like Tesla stuffed a cheaper crappier suspension in it, or put in a 7" touchscreen instead of the monster it has, or put a metal roof on top to make the car look stupid.

If you are driving a $35,000 Model 3 it's going to drive just like its more expensive siblings and that means it's going to drive really REALLY well.

It's not the car for everyone, if someone really must have a hatch back functionality right out of the gate they can get a Korean EV or that weird GM Bolt thing.
 
@MXWing, where you been? Missed you.

Anyway, yes I was a bit surprised by the news yesterday. If I'm being honest, the $35K version seems to be the one to buy. I can drive on my own so I don't need the alphabet soup PUP EAP FUD TKO WTF or whatever it all is. I still hate the screen but I get why it is the way it is.

The real story here is Elon telling the world they can only sell this car profitably by completely gutting the sales and marketing teams. I was up late last night with a bad cough and read a few things, did some thinking on it.

As one who railed Tesla hardest on where the hell the $35K car is, this does not look like maybe the best move right now. I'll just say this, there are a lot of people who will look at this as a desperation move. I don't know if it is, but it can sure be colored that way. The very fact they are saying you can order the base car today and get it in 2-4 weeks means there really wasn't anything left of their Day One reservation list. Also, weren't they supposed to be focusing on EU and China cars for the next few weeks, and selling from inventory here? When are they going to build these SR cars?

I'm interested in your take, someone elsewhere here last night indicated the weight on the MR car was close enough to the SR cars to indicate merely a software limited battery for the base car. If so, that's going to eat into their (admittedly high) margins. The rest came from seats and audio? I dunno.

I personally also think closing the stores is a bad idea. Elon really wants to commoditize automobiles and I just don't think the world is ready for that. Cars are a huge, emotional purchase and saying there are no test drives will not play with a lot of people. They can trot out the 82% online purchase rate all they want but I still think even today the Model 3 is still solidly in fan / early adopter mode. And folks telling me to just Turo a test drive seem to forget that traditional test drives are free. Last year they invited owners to be at delivery events to tout the cars and help new buyers, now they are saying they don't need anyone for that? Seems weird.

I also question the thinking they can address most service issues with ranger service. There's a lot of threads here about service issues and I just don't see how anyone can afford to service a couple hundred thousand cars buy sending techs individually out into the field. And saying most service in an hour is just not realistic, most people with even a little experience in this area can see right through that. With the critical tech shortage we have now, where are these guys going to come from?

Anyway, saying this is what it takes to sell the $35K profitably only confirms what I was saying last week, that they can't sell it profitably right now (the way the company exists at present). It's still my opinion they should never have promised a $35K Model 3 at launch, and all this stuff smells like Elon doing what it takes to be able to say he did meet his target after all. At the very least, they should have waited longer, despite my complaints. Cutting sales and marketing staff is not a good look and saying they don't really need them is a bit of arrogance.

I'm quite interested in how the markets respond today and what industry types are saying about it in the moment. One way or the other this is a turning point in Telsa's history. As always I'm curious of your thoughts.

Car looks nice though.
 
@MXWing, where you been? Missed you.

Anyway, yes I was a bit surprised by the news yesterday. If I'm being honest, the $35K version seems to be the one to buy. I can drive on my own so I don't need the alphabet soup PUP EAP FUD TKO WTF or whatever it all is. I still hate the screen but I get why it is the way it is.

The real story here is Elon telling the world they can only sell this car profitably by completely gutting the sales and marketing teams. I was up late last night with a bad cough and read a few things, did some thinking on it.

As one who railed Tesla hardest on where the hell the $35K car is, this does not look like maybe the best move right now. I'll just say this, there are a lot of people who will look at this as a desperation move. I don't know if it is, but it can sure be colored that way. The very fact they are saying you can order the base car today and get it in 2-4 weeks means there really wasn't anything left of their Day One reservation list. Also, weren't they supposed to be focusing on EU and China cars for the next few weeks, and selling from inventory here? When are they going to build these SR cars?

I'm interested in your take, someone elsewhere here last night indicated the weight on the MR car was close enough to the SR cars to indicate merely a software limited battery for the base car. If so, that's going to eat into their (admittedly high) margins. The rest came from seats and audio? I dunno.

I personally also think closing the stores is a bad idea. Elon really wants to commoditize automobiles and I just don't think the world is ready for that. Cars are a huge, emotional purchase and saying there are no test drives will not play with a lot of people. They can trot out the 82% online purchase rate all they want but I still think even today the Model 3 is still solidly in fan / early adopter mode. And folks telling me to just Turo a test drive seem to forget that traditional test drives are free. Last year they invited owners to be at delivery events to tout the cars and help new buyers, now they are saying they don't need anyone for that? Seems weird.

I also question the thinking they can address most service issues with ranger service. There's a lot of threads here about service issues and I just don't see how anyone can afford to service a couple hundred thousand cars buy sending techs individually out into the field. And saying most service in an hour is just not realistic, most people with even a little experience in this area can see right through that. With the critical tech shortage we have now, where are these guys going to come from?

Anyway, saying this is what it takes to sell the $35K profitably only confirms what I was saying last week, that they can't sell it profitably right now (the way the company exists at present). It's still my opinion they should never have promised a $35K Model 3 at launch, and all this stuff smells like Elon doing what it takes to be able to say he did meet his target after all. At the very least, they should have waited longer, despite my complaints. Cutting sales and marketing staff is not a good look and saying they don't really need them is a bit of arrogance.

I'm quite interested in how the markets respond today and what industry types are saying about it in the moment. One way or the other this is a turning point in Telsa's history. As always I'm curious of your thoughts.

Car looks nice though.

I'm not @MXWing but I did stay in a Holiday Inn Express last night.

Elon recently said that a lot of people want the Model 3 but it is still too expensive. This might be due to general soft sales of the sedan class in the USA and there might be far more reservation holders who don't have enough tax liability to take advantage of the tax credit than Tesla initially realized.

First off, I agree with you. Tesla fanatics have been far too quick to scoff at questions around why the 400K reservations have not been converted into sales.

The $35,000 Model 3 is going to answer that question. Tesla is either about to sell over 200,000 cars or they are about to be sitting on a lot of unsold inventory. Hopefully it's the former and not the latter.

Personally I am nearly 100% convinced that even after the store closings and layoffs the $35,000 car is a money loser for Tesla. How much money did they save by shorting the older architecture battery pack more cells, $2,000? How much did they save by putting in cloth seats without power or heaters and a non power steering rack, $400? Putting in basic audio saves them maybe $300?

I do think that they will make a profit on most of the SRs that they sell because if the customer chooses even a couple of options like the new cheaper $3,000 AP, or the $2500 slight upgrade to the cabin, or overpriced Tesla paint then they will probably push Tesla over to where they turn a small profit... hard to say whether it will be truly profitable when you account for warranty costs, etc., over the life of the car... but what it will do is keep the factory going, keep parts orders going and all of that results in a cheaper and cheaper car for Tesla to build.

The real question for Tesla I think is where the cash is going to come from for a Model Y line and pickup line if they don't post a profit this quarter and barely eke one out in Q2. Guess we'll see. Elon is definitely refusing to go back to the well. By comparison Amazon didn't make a nickel for well over a decade and was lavishly showered with investment cash... so clearly there's a double standard at work.
 
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isn't all that competitive with things like the Niro and Kona. You have to add maybe $10k of upgrades to bring it closer to their spec.

I'm actually a fan of the Korean brands. I bought my first new car in 2011 (Hyundai Sonata) because of how feature-rich the car was and how inexpensive it was compared to an equally equipped other brand. Hyundai had also worked pretty hard to shed its reputation of being unreliable. Indeed in the 7 years I owned it, it gave me zero issues.

But for me, purchasing an EV is more about the EV drivetrain and less the luxury packages. The battery is where my money is going, and I want that most expensive asset to be of best quality and last a really long time.

I just don't have confidence that a lot of these economy EVs coming out are designed with a "battery first" mentality that Tesla has. Bad idea to shop EVs by comparing feature specs. Caveat emptor.
 
Yeah the Korean EVs have the full tax credit, HUD, sunroof, Android Auto, Car Play, heated steering wheel....and I think ventilated/cooling seats. Yeah...no supercharger....but one can argue that they use the other stuff more than supercharging.
Is there one you could get right now for $35k? I don't believe any of them are even available for purchase in the US .
 
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How much does it cost to add the supercharger option to the Niro and Kona?
Let me check...oh wait...Hyundai and Kia haven’t built a nationwide high speed DC charging network and Niro and Kona owners are going to have to plan long distance trips very carefully. Which of course is your point. :cool:

Nothing, you pay at the point of use.
I think you may have missed the point @MXWing was making.

The Niro can DC charge at up to 100kW but only for a very limited period of time. If the Niro owner can find a CCS charger that offers that much power, it will reportedly take about 30 minutes to gain 100 miles of range.

The Kona is limited to a max of 70kW for DC charging.

In contrast, the Model 3 can charge at a max of 120kW and can add about 170 miles of range in 30 minutes. And of course it can use the Supercharger network, which is by far the most extensive and useful high speed DC charging system in the world.

So the Model 3 clearly beats its competition when it comes to DC charging. The base 3 does not beat its competition in every single area, but on balance I believe it is clearly the winner for now.
 
Is there one you could get right now for $35k? I don't believe any of them are even available for purchase in the US .
Thought someone took delivery of a kona ev a few weeks ago. So they are in the US.... Buy probably not in volume... and in a few months, the SR would prob be more available than the. Korean EVs. Also, the Korean car dealers are marking up the sell prices above MSRP. So I'm thinking that a bunch of prospective Korean EV buyers might be funneled over to the SR cuz of the dealer markups.
 
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Yeah...no supercharger....but one can argue that they use the other stuff more than supercharging.

We have had Gen 1 and Gen 2 Volt since 2014. Part of the reason is the "gas engine fallback". That perhaps, superchargers would not be common enough, time needed to supercharge would be excessive and concerns about being stuck due to home charging not meeting needs.

After over 2 years of living with Tesla’s, the concerns above were not founded.

There wasn’t a single case where going BEV only got us into the trouble. Without a supercharger network, it would have been trouble.

Long and the short of it is:

If your BEV is a Tesla, you require no backup car.
If your BEV is not a Tesla, you likely need a backup car.

While CarPlay / Android Auto is cool, it’s not worth another car for that purpose.
 
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