Model 3 Super Sport (a proposal)

[ItsNotAboutTheMoney]

We can wish many things. I'm only talking about logic what is probable considering that companies need to have strategic priorities, time to market and always limited in resources. EU has a need for smaller cars than Model 3 - compact hatch, but I doubt that Tesla going to have time to make it any time soon.

The compact will be designed in China for China, but I would expect it to be sold in Europe at least.

 

[Mash]

The compact will be designed in China for China, but I would expect it to be sold in Europe at least.

Tesla in China is premium brand. And China is a land of large cars (all premium German brands in China have long versions which aren't available for the rest of the world) and dirt cheap tiny ones. You can't compete with BYD on their turf to make cheap cars, so I strongly doubt that. EU has a demand for premium compacts, but Berlin is going to release model Y first end of next year and there is no time to put a new model earlier than end of 2022.

 

[XLR82XS]

• Better noise insulation. Noise insulation is very poor in my 2018 Model 3. Maybe it's better now but I can hear environment noise everywhere. It might be from all the glass but my previous Mercedes had pano roof too and was never this loud.

It is improved. My 2020 is quieter than my 2019.

 

[ItsNotAboutTheMoney]

Tesla in China is premium brand. And China is a land of large cars (all premium German brands in China have long versions which aren't available for the rest of the world) and dirt cheap tiny ones. You can't compete with BYD on their turf to make cheap cars, so I strongly doubt that. EU has a demand for premium compacts, but Berlin is going to release model Y first end of next year and there is no time to put a new model earlier than end of 2022.

The top-selling vehicle in China in 2019 was a compact VW. The top sellers are compact and subcompact cars, crossovers and SUVs, not tiny cars.

If Tesla builds a compact, it'll be targeting entry-level premium, just as other brands like Mercedes and BMW have done.

 

[JT_M3P]

Bottom line is Tesla needs a motorsport division. Maybe in a few years.

 

[Needsdecaf]

Can't believe no one mentioned seats. The seats in the Model 3 are terrible for any kind of cornering. Even the Model S seats are better. There is a roundabout exiting my neighborhood I take every morning and the first time I had a Model S loaner, I couldn't believe the difference in lateral support. And those are only mediocre!

There's no way to exploit higher performance in this car if you're sliding all over the place.

 

[Mash]

Can't believe no one mentioned seats. The seats in the Model 3 are terrible for any kind of cornering. Even the Model S seats are better. There is a roundabout exiting my neighborhood I take every morning and the first time I had a Model S loaner, I couldn't believe the difference in lateral support. And those are only mediocre!

There's no way to exploit higher performance in this car if you're sliding all over the place.

Right, that's probably what Tesla can do for Super Performance trim - co-brand with Recaro. I can fix myself on a track with quickfit, but on a street its just stupid to the level I might end up installing seats without side airbags and compromising safety.

 

[Gasaraki]

Higher capacity battery etc is more weight

Not true all the time.

 

[MountainPass]

Our dream is to be the Nismo of Tesla

 

[1.21GW]

Our dream is to be the Nismo of Tesla

Add some stickers and spoilers then charge a lot of money for minimal performance increase...??

 

[MountainPass]

Add some stickers and spoilers then charge a lot of money for minimal performance increase...??

Yes, it is the perfect plan. Maybe we should go for AMG or M-Division instead.

 

[MagnusMako]

I would love if Tesla offered higher performance oriented trim's / options. Give us lightweight seats and other aero options. Elon himself has mentioned to Joe Rogan in their last interview about modding and how you can "make the car lighter" so I see no reason why Tesla can't do this themselves. Once they reach a certain level of efficiency, it pays even more to offer some trims straight out of the factory to give the community of go faster-er people what they want.

A Model 3 Super Sport is an interesting option but represent a limited market.

What a larger number of customers are looking for, especially in Asia and in Europe,
is a Model 3 Super Compact, about one or two foot shorter tan a Model 3 with four doors,
a hatchback, RWD or AWD, and a 50 kWh battery for a $25,000 starting price.

If not that they could maybe make a high performance version of the planned Model 2. Something that could easily compete with or beat the Hyundai Veloster N or if they do 4 door, the Mercedes AMG A35.

 

[Tom Martin]

A Model 3 Super Sport is an interesting option but represent a limited market.

What a larger number of customers are looking for, especially in Asia and in Europe,
is a Model 3 Super Compact, about one or two foot shorter tan a Model 3 with four doors,
a hatchback, RWD or AWD, and a 50 kWh battery for a $25,000 starting price.

Hey, Watts. What you're saying is probably right but with Tesla selling everything they can produce and waiting lines that just ain't going to happen.

 

[dfwatt]

I will start off by saying that I definitely enjoy my M3P and have no regrets about purchasing it. However, after a year and a few months of driving it, I have had some thoughts that I would like to share.

As background, I have previously owned an AMG C63 with the 6.2l engine, an AMG C63s with the twin turbo 4l engine, and a BMW M4. I enjoyed each of these cars to varying degrees and I will spend a moment describing their pluses and minuses. The 6.2l C63 was a classic AMG hot rod. The engine was amazing, but the chassis and particularly the comparatively skinny tires made for lots of drifting and burn out action, but only modest corner grip. Nonetheless,a really fun car for its day. The M4 handled pretty well, but at the cost of a fairly harsh ride (which I did not mind, but others have complained). The engine was nice, but definitely not amazing. The big downside was the traction / stability control. Literally, if it sensed even the slightest risk of slip it would intervene so forcefully you might think someone had pulled the emergency brake. Defeating the stability control overcame this problem, but I like a safety net, so I rarely resorted to this. Finally, the C63s also has a remarkable engine. While a huge leap forward compared to the previous generation C63 chassis, the car was still a bit heavy and the tires still too skinny. The car was predictable, and handled well within its limits, but those limits were a bit low. To its credit, the stability control was set up perfectly, both in terms of waiting until there was really a problem and in gentle and minimal intervention.

This brings us to the M3P. As others have mentioned, the interior is not really up to the quality of the above competitors, but it is comfortable enough for me and the M3P's lower price and higher performance certainly make up for any interior shortcomings for me. I am amazed that Tesla can currently sell an M3P for about $55,000 that outperforms those other cars on the street and on the track when they cost between $75,000 and $85,000.

I will say that for me, there is a bit less of a sense of excitement when driving the M3 at least compared to the 2 AMGs. Those cars felt less isolated from the road and gave more overall feedback. On the other hand, the M3 is considerably more relaxing to drive and much better suited for long road trips, particularly when using auto pilot even without FSD. Also, unlike the M4, I have not experienced an overactive stability control system in the M3P.

Sorry for all the prologue, but here is my thinking and proposal. Many car magazines have been reporting the imminent arrival of a new and improved BMW M3/M4 duo that will eventually include all wheel drive variants and that are reputed to have kicked up the horsepower from the low to mid 400 range up to 503. This suggests that BMW is serious about beating the M3P at the track and retaking the sport sedan crown. While less has been written about future AMG vehicles, I am certain AMG will respond in kind.

Based on all of the above, I think Tesla should offer a Super Sport (or Ludicrous or whatever) version of the M3P to stay ahead in the sport sedan race and to offer greater driving excitement. What would this include you ask (and I'll tell you even if you didn't ask ;-).

* Higher capacity battery - with advancing battery technology, Tesla should now have access to batteries with higher capacity than the current M3P battery, and, importantly, these new batteries should weigh no more and preferably less than the current battery.

* Higher capacity / power drive motors and circuitry - with more battery capacity (and higher current capacity) the rest of the drive system should also get beefed up to provide quicker acceleration and perhaps less fall off at higher speeds.

* More sophisticated suspension - In a world where Camaros, Mustangs and Corvettes have fancy computer controlled shocks and suspensions that provide comfortable ride, reduced brake dive, better weight transfer for acceleration, and flatter cornering, it is time for Tesla to step up and offer something comparable. Tesla can also implement variable ride height as it has with the Model S to improve highway range and high speed cornering.

* Better brakes - the M3P brakes are fine for the street, but given the range of higher performance aftermarket offerings, there is clearly room for improvement for cars that may see occasional or frequent track duty.

* True lightweight forged wheels - When I wanted a second set of wheels so I could have dedicated winter wheels / tires, I splurged for the T-Sportline forged wheels. The weight difference really is at least 10 lbs per wheel and you can feel the difference in front end response, turn-in and a generally more nimble feel. Forged wheels are also stronger, so other than cost, there is no downside here.

Given that the current C63s costs north of $80,000 in any reasonable configuration and that the new BMW M3/M4 will likely be in the same ballpark, Tesla has lots of price headroom to implement all of the above improvements and more while still undercutting its competitors' prices.

Perhaps the only thing holding Tesla back in this regard is a desire to keep the Model 3 performance below that of the flagship Model S. However, when the Plaid Model S arrives, that obstacle should disappear.

Well, that is my proposal. I will say that if Tesla takes me up on it and succeeds as I expect, I will line up for a trade-in.

I welcome all constructive feedback.

Peace

Much if not virtually all of what you're describing except for the higher kilowatt drivetrain issues are readily available in the aftermarket although I have to confess that having the ability to dial in shocks from the cockpit is vastly preferable to having to get out of the car and fiddle with the car while it is jacked up. Even so, I actually find the changes in the car's dynamics from properly tuning it up (in terms of suspension, brakes, forged wheels, wider tires, Etc) more enjoyable than additional acceleration. I just drove a Porsche Taycan Turbo S last week and although its acceleration and launch were violent they were not particularly easy to modulate and the car's handling really wasn't any better then my own cars maybe less easy to control and with less feedback thru the steering. Probably sometime in the next several years you'll see a higher kilowatt model 3. Even just this year's 2021 model has a larger capacity more kilowatt hour battery but is no quicker.

 

[ArchEtech]

There really is no reason for Tesla not to offer a “super sport” option especially if it’s mostly accessories that boost performance that do not take a bunch of manufacturing changes for that one model as it ultimately won’t sell all that well. Wider, Light wheels and tires, adaptive shocks, some body add ons to look more special, lower stance, bigger battery pack and ridiculous mode. Certainly just a couple of changes could really benefit the M3P!

That said my guess is, the next major Model 3 overhaul will get a bigger range and more efficient powerful motors so that might make it a super sport as compared to the current model closing or surpassing the competition gap even more than they do now. I really do want adaptive ride and some body trim, lips and diffusers to set it apart.

 

[Vines]

There really is no reason for Tesla not to offer a “super sport” option especially if it’s mostly accessories that boost performance that do not take a bunch of manufacturing changes for that one model as it ultimately won’t sell all that well. Wider, Light wheels and tires, adaptive shocks, some body add ons to look more special, lower stance, bigger battery pack and ridiculous mode. Certainly just a couple of changes could really benefit the M3P!

That said my guess is, the next major Model 3 overhaul will get a bigger range and more efficient powerful motors so that might make it a super sport as compared to the current model closing or surpassing the competition gap even more than they do now. I really do want adaptive ride and some body trim, lips and diffusers to set it apart.

I honestly think Tesla is a ways away from this point still. Luckily there are plenty of tuners ready to satisfy all these needs.

At this point you can't even get the car in any color except the basic 5. Even Obsidian Black Metallic and Silver were too much for Tesla.

While I agree with the desire, I think we are a long way still from this point.
My list of mods for a super sport:

Tighter suspension bushings, adjustable alignment bits and better shocks, maybe even magnetic adjustable dampeners.
Wider wheels, and fenders to cram those wider wheels under.
Sport brake pads, rotors designed for cooling more than efficency.
Increased cooling ability for front and rear motors and the battery. Bonus points for using chemistry that doesn't generate quite as much heat.
Dual rear motors with track mode tuned to take advantage of the torque vectoring
4 or 5 point Harness tie down points
Great seats
Datalogging for the track, along with an interface that gave more granular data.

 

[raptor5244]

I honestly think Tesla is a ways away from this point still. Luckily there are plenty of tuners ready to satisfy all these needs.

At this point you can't even get the car in any color except the basic 5. Even Obsidian Black Metallic and Silver were too much for Tesla.

While I agree with the desire, I think we are a long way still from this point.
My list of mods for a super sport:

Tighter suspension bushings, adjustable alignment bits and better shocks, maybe even magnetic adjustable dampeners.
Wider wheels, and fenders to cram those wider wheels under.
Sport brake pads, rotors designed for cooling more than efficency.
Increased cooling ability for front and rear motors and the battery. Bonus points for using chemistry that doesn't generate quite as much heat.
Dual rear motors with track mode tuned to take advantage of the torque vectoring
4 or 5 point Harness tie down points
Great seats
Datalogging for the track, along with an interface that gave more granular data.

Agreed. There is just too much demand that they need to fill for the typical non-enthusiast buyer before they will cater to us enthusiasts. I think GM will introduce a performance EV sedan that will carry over some of their tech from the Cadillac division. I would expect magnetic ride suspension, improved seats, better brakes, attractive wheel options with wider tires, more aggressive styling, etc. I mean if GM could just mimc the handling they were able to achieve with the alpha chassis used on the ATS/Camaro in a performance oriented EV. That would be a home run.

They just need to stick an EV powertrain in their CT4 and CT5 sedans. Stance, real seats, engaging interior, splitter, rear wing, mag-ride.

 

[jackmott]

A completely different take on this: No change to battery capacity, if the new big cells and structural pack can reduce weight at the current range, do that. Only have two motors, in the rear with torque vectoring, same ones as the plaid. No front motor. This lets you eliminate the weight and drivetrain losses of two differentials, and gets rid of the problem of having open diffs. Also moves the weight to the center back of the car. Also replace the roof glass with carbon fiber, and transition to the new lithium ion 12 volt battery. Combined with some nice track and sport mode options, this would be very fun.

 

[raptor5244]

A completely different take on this: No change to battery capacity, if the new big cells and structural pack can reduce weight at the current range, do that. Only have two motors, in the rear with torque vectoring, same ones as the plaid. No front motor. This lets you eliminate the weight and drivetrain losses of two differentials, and gets rid of the problem of having open diffs. Also moves the weight to the center back of the car. Also replace the roof glass with carbon fiber, and transition to the new lithium ion 12 volt battery. Combined with some nice track and sport mode options, this would be very fun.

Now you are talking. Less weight, dual rear motor, no open diff. Add in magnetic ride suspension, drive modes, better wheels and price it at $54,999 so it will qualify for the tax credit.

 

[jackmott]

Now you are talking. Less weight, dual rear motor, no open diff. Add in magnetic ride suspension, drive modes, better wheels and price it at $54,999 so it will qualify for the tax credit.

Plus with two grunty motors you can use a lower gear ratio and suffer less high speed power losses.