Is there any rumor of MS battery upgrade?

[Giampigua]

Since competition on range of luxury EV cars is growing, our MS is no more a leader.
EQS, Lucid already get longer range.
Other coming cars are planned to get something more as well, or anyway a similar one (Audi q8, A6 and Q6, BMW, NIO, maybe Maserati, Volvo and other Chinese producers).
I also remember Panasonic promise to improve battery energy density by 5% per year or so…
Does anyone of you have information about it?

 

[beatle]

Elon previously said that 400 miles of range was plenty. For passenger cars not towing anything, I agree, at least when you can rely on the supercharger network.

Elon Musk: Tesla could have made a 600-mile-range electric car a year ago

Elon Musk said that Tesla could have made a Model S with 600 miles of range a year ago, but...

electrek.co

I wouldn't hold out for a bigger battery, I would hold out for less weight. If any significant battery changes come along, I bet it's to move them to a higher voltage which would only involve rearranging the pack configuration. This would allow for thinner gauge wire for the same amount of power, and could translate to thinner wires for faster supercharging. Tesla loves saving money. I'd think battery capacity in kwh is unlikely to grow much.

 

[DerbyDave]

The Cybertruck is supposed to use the new batteries and have a 500+ mile range.

 

[vcor]

Well, Tesla and Lucid are the long-range champs so far, and Going from a Model S LR (405 miles) to a Lucid Air Grand Touring (512 miles). The Lucid costs $44K more than the LR and they are selling every car at a huge loss which is not sustainable. Few people want or need to spend that just for an extra hundred miles of range, but the option is available if you need it. EQS is only 350 miles of range, and others listed are prototypes and hopefuls that are unavailable in the USA, and do not have an EPA rating. Also, keep in mind, automakers often quote preliminary ranges using European standards, which are highly inflated. Makes for good PR, but don't believe in any high range until it has EPA testing.

Might be worth viewing Tesla's battery day from 2020 to see what they are doing:

 

[DerbyDave]

Unless you live in warmer climates, the extra 100 miles can really help in winter when you lose 100 miles range from the cold, and then there is the 10 percent at the top generally not used because you shouldn't routinely charge above 90%, and then the 10% at the bottom that you generally don't use because you don't want to run out of energy at the bottom of the "tank". Then there is the 5% or more that you lose in capacity after a year or so. The more mileage in range you can start out with, the easier you can sleep at night for people like me with range anxiety. 400 miles was my minimum when I bought my Tesla. Hopefully the next car will have even more.

 

[ucmndd]

The Model S battery WAS updated barely two years ago. I think it's far-fetched to think there are additional improvements coming any time soon.

The Plaid+ is dead for the time being and I don't see Tesla particularly chomping at the bit to compete for bragging rights against Lucid et al while they're barely trickling out a couple hundred cars a month.

 

[Giampigua]

Well,
considering that 196 people read this thread and nobody reported a positive rumor, I guess the matter is "over" for the next couple of years.

Thanks.

@vcor: i appreciate what you said. let me only add that real world range of EQS appears to be by far longer than the Model S one.
I understood that EPA procedures may be interpreted differently and not all play the same game, depending on interpretation, choices and conservative v/s aggressive approach.

See for example Edmunds test

TESTED: 2022 Mercedes-Benz EQS Sets New Edmunds EV Range Record | Edmunds

Edmunds tested the all-new 2022 Mercedes-Benz EQS 450+ to see how far it goes on a full battery charge. Its official EPA-estimated range is 350 miles, but EV range can vary in the real world. Here's how the first modern Mercedes production EV fared in our testing.

www.edmunds.com

Differently from the past (dieselgate) now it seems Germans are more conservative.

This will probably bring me to take a decision later this year to abandon Model S in favor of a competitor, being EQS in pole position. This despite the fact that I have to thank TESLA and ELON for the positive disruption they brought to us

 

[ucmndd]

This will probably bring me to take a decision later this year to abandon Model S in favor of a competitor, being EQS in pole position.

If range on a single charge is your primary objective and definition of “luxury” that’s probably the right move.

In any other EV you very well might need to carry around an extra thousand pounds of battery you only use on one of every 500 trips. In a Tesla, you just stop to charge at any of the thousands of supercharger stations and get on your way in a few minutes.

 

[Giampigua]

If range on a single charge is your primary objective and definition of “luxury” that’s probably the right move.

In any other EV you very well might need to carry around an extra thousand pounds of battery you only use on one of every 500 trips. In a Tesla, you just stop to charge at any of the thousands of supercharger stations and get on your way in a few minutes.

Maybe you did not notice that I am already owning a Model S. So I perfectly know how the car works, the network, the range etc etc etc.

In my use, range is important. I only use the car for long trips. from 260 to 1.100 km. whatever is the weather condition (130.000 km in my odometer since sept 2019). In some cases I have no chance to charge at destination, and so I have to consider the return trip even when the one way trip is only 200 km (In my case: when going to mountain in winter).

I made some simulations with ABRP and - compared to EQS / Lucid and presumably next coming cars such as NIO - I could save from 30 min to 1 hour or more in such trips.

Anyway, my question is not to add more pounds to the car to have longer range, but to have more range at the same weight as of today by installing more efficient (i.e. more energy dense) batteries, as it should be possible considering that tesla has been installing 100 kWh battery capacity in Model S since 2016.

After 7 years it should be possible to have more kWh in the same weight.

And if we accepted that weight in 2016 why should we refuse it today?

 

[vcor]

EQS is actually quite nice. I test drove the EQS before deciding on the 2022 Model S that I got. The EQS felt more luxurious, but I prefer the clean simplicity of Tesla's styling and far more refined software features. Still, I can see how some will prefer the EQS cabin over the Tesla.

The #1 factor for anyone who does a lot of long-distance driving is the charging infrastructure. It's just awful for CCS today in the USA and scary to depend on it. You have to plan that expected charging locations will be down and always have alternatives ready. That means keeping 100+ miles of buffer because you can't trust the charging networks. So if you need range, likely Lucid is the only game in town, as you'll need the extra 100 miles over the Tesla to be sure of actually getting to your destination. Of course, this also means you'll need to detour to unplanned charging locations, often dramatically slower than fast chargers, making the whole trip take far longer than hoped for or you would get in a Tesla with its Superchargers.

I do see you're in Italy, so the CCS charging infrastructure is likely better in your area, which opens up more options for you.

 

[Giampigua]

The #1 factor for anyone who does a lot of long-distance driving is the charging infrastructure.

That’s why I opened this thread: my preferred option is a MS with the lucid range.

 

[vcor]

There are three longer-range options from Tesla, all using the very latest battery technology Tesla has:

• Tesla Semi - 500 miles range (ok, not a likely replacement)
• Tesla Cybertruck - 500 miles range (available later this year, but long waiting list)
• Tesla Roadster - 620 miles range (unclear when it is going into production, expensive)

All these options may take an extra year or two to get to the EU. So right now the Lucid is the long-range champ.

 

[beatle]

That’s why I opened this thread: my preferred option is a MS with the lucid range.

Why do you believe 400 miles is not enough? It's not often that I agree with Elon these days, but do you have scenarios where you just can't get to your destination without a range of 500 miles?

I can see the Cybertruck needing 500 miles of range since towing frequently cuts range in half, but if you're not towing, there aren't too many trips you can take where you'll be without DCFC.

 

[Giampigua]

Because real life range is much shorter than EPA one.
Today I needed 78% battery for 270 km (170 miles).
This is the real range in winter, if you want to keep some safety and healthy room for the battery life…
As said above, for my use, a “lucid range” means saving from half hour to one hour in sone trips (600 - 1100 km).

I can live with my Raven model S, but I could live better, less stressed, with more range.

Keep in mind that in many situations ( mountain trips, trips by clients) I can not count on charging at the one way destination. Counting the whole trip such distances happen frequently to me.

Since batteries are improving each year, I should expect a 30% range increase with the same battery weight, some day…

 

[beatle]

But you can stop and charge, no? That's the whole point of the supercharger network - to be able to get where you need to. Never needing to stop and charge isn't a very good reason to add more weight and cost to the car.

 

[Rocky_H]

But you can stop and charge, no?

Already answered.

Keep in mind that in many situations ( mountain trips, trips by clients) I can not count on charging at the one way destination. Counting the whole trip such distances happen frequently to me.

 

[beatle]

I read that as there was no destination charging, different from not having a supercharger anywhere on the way.

 

[Rocky_H]

I read that as there was no destination charging, different from not having a supercharger anywhere on the way.

The point is, it's probably both. I've noticed a lot of Tesla owners have very oddly colored glasses assuming there are abundant Superchargers on all routes all over the world.

 

[vcor]

The point is, it's probably both. I've noticed a lot of Tesla owners have very oddly colored glasses assuming there are abundant Superchargers on all routes all over the world.

Yep, it wasn't obvious to me at first that the OP was in Italy. When I got my first Tesla there were only 6 Supercharger locations in the world. Lucky for me they were on the long-distance route I use (SF to LA). I had an S60 with 210 miles of range, but it worked great for those trips. It was the lowest-range Tesla at the time (ignoring the S40 that came later and couldn't use Superchargers).

 

[Giampigua]

Can I say a very friendly note?

I notice that when discussing about range in TESLA forums there is generally an opinion that it is not so much necessary to have more of it.

Instead, when discussing about other options, such as 21"rims instead of 19", Plaid version instead of normal one, expensive color instead of the standard one, nobody is worrying if those options are really needed or not.
Extending the second "approach", one should ask himself if air conditioning and radio is really "needed": humanity evolved in millenniums without air conditioning and without radio - cell phones etc.

So, despite of the fact that I believe I "need" more range to save time, let's put the question in this other way: I "want" more range just because I like it. OK?