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Is there dislike towards EV drivers in the UK?
- Thread starter Alistairuk
- Start date
You should all meet Gary at my company.
He's our company's garage mechanic
He likes to argue about new car Tech of course, and Battery powered is a big no no to him.
At least he knows about the pucks to lift Tesla's up! Yep i taught him well
I'm sure he has a Blackberry and probably has a Betamax plugged into a 32 inch CRT at home.
You either embrace it or you get forced into it. Either way you end up with it. I don't argue with him, I'll just let him realise when the next lot of cars the company buys are fully electric. At least he will know about the pucks!
He's our company's garage mechanic
He likes to argue about new car Tech of course, and Battery powered is a big no no to him.
At least he knows about the pucks to lift Tesla's up! Yep i taught him well
I'm sure he has a Blackberry and probably has a Betamax plugged into a 32 inch CRT at home.
You either embrace it or you get forced into it. Either way you end up with it. I don't argue with him, I'll just let him realise when the next lot of cars the company buys are fully electric. At least he will know about the pucks!
@gangzoom I’m not sure if you’re Trolling or trying to express frustration.
If someone can’t afford an M3 they probably can’t afford an MP3. Sure.
Is there a divide in the country with some people that ‘have’ and ‘have not’? Yes. Is it as bad as the USA, no. Could we do more, yes. Does the divide create resentment...don’t know.
Do car drivers set taxation policy? No. Is the UK government trying to incentivise EVs with taxes designed to reduce carbon and improve air quality....yes, for everyone’s benefit. If we didn’t buy Tesla’s would that help? No.
So should we blame the state of the nation on EV drivers?
Most people here have gone EV probably because they’re nice cars, drive well, ‘drive themselves (ish)’, and are trying to do the right thing.
Arguably if you want to level the field you have to be even more progressive in tax design. Means tested grants perhaps. Less than 5% of cars sold in the UK are BEV. When the used car market has a few more EV in a couple of years then they will become more accessible.
What is your solution?
If someone can’t afford an M3 they probably can’t afford an MP3. Sure.
Is there a divide in the country with some people that ‘have’ and ‘have not’? Yes. Is it as bad as the USA, no. Could we do more, yes. Does the divide create resentment...don’t know.
Do car drivers set taxation policy? No. Is the UK government trying to incentivise EVs with taxes designed to reduce carbon and improve air quality....yes, for everyone’s benefit. If we didn’t buy Tesla’s would that help? No.
So should we blame the state of the nation on EV drivers?
Most people here have gone EV probably because they’re nice cars, drive well, ‘drive themselves (ish)’, and are trying to do the right thing.
Arguably if you want to level the field you have to be even more progressive in tax design. Means tested grants perhaps. Less than 5% of cars sold in the UK are BEV. When the used car market has a few more EV in a couple of years then they will become more accessible.
What is your solution?
I can see the argument, but I'm sure that there are a lot of contradictions. But the first cars were not for the farm worker labouring in the fields. Progress (whatever that is) does involve time and effort and that has to be paid for. If you haven't got any money, it's hard to pay, but you can get paid for putting in your time and effort to whatever endeavour you chose that someone is prepared to pay you for.
Some people paid a lot for the first cars and it ended up with most people being able to get better cars for less. Works that way for a lot of things.
The important thing imo is the integrity and efficiency of 'the system' in remaining focused on reducing environmental impact and developing universally relevant products rather than purely fuelling the playground of 'the rich'. In this context 'rich' would suggest thoughtless 'bags-o-money' types looking for the next expensive self-image statement.
Individual products and even businesses will struggle to challenge the driving forces of capitalism, not least because most if not all that we enjoy / benefit from in some way comes down to products of capitalism.
Tesla started out with a somewhat more idealistic message / mission, but as it got bigger, it had to change and adjust to 'the ways of The World.
They are part of your system and you are part of theirs. At the moment, the EV driver benefits from the ICE driver in terms of tax incentives and shorter lines to charge (+ loads more). ICE drivers benefit on EV owners being early adopters suffering on the bleeding edge and suffering rapid depreciation in some cases as well as everyone hopefully getting some environmental benefit.
Just because someone is 'Green' they can't ignore that they are part of a system that isn't.
12Pack
Member
Indeed I agree with some the points here that us Tesla owners are indeed somewhat blindly evangelical about our EVs not just in terms of economics and environment, but performance as well. My daughter needs a 700 mile car for her job and there isn’t car she can afford in cash or time that fits the bill. And you will be surprised how much more fun a well-driven, light weight car can be on quiet roads and roundabouts, and of course on track.
We still have a way to go.
We still have a way to go.
ACarneiro
Active Member
That’s an interesting proposition but I’m not entirely sure I understood your argument for it.
I am simply replacing a complex, expensive to produce and distribute and highly taxed fuel for one that is less taxed and much cheaper to produce and distribute.
In what way does my reduction in fossil fuel usage increase poverty?
Jason71
Well-Known Member
I don't know what point he was making but there is a potential issue with EVs and fuel poverty in the future. people who can afford off street parking can charge for 5p/kw. people who cannot have to charge at 25p+. they are also likely to have lower range so be more likely to have to charge at rapid prices mid journey which will be even more pricey.
This is going to be a real issue in the future and I don't know what the solution is except public off peak charging at the sort of rate domestic users enjoy but no idea who would provide that?
ACarneiro
Active Member
It is the case in most things that the more you can afford the less things cost.
Taxis, for example, are more expensive than private cars so those who can’t afford a car pay more for their transport.
Does this mean that there is something inherently wrong with owning a car?
I personally see myself as being a early adopter, paying over the odds for a car (because, let’s face it, Teslas are overly expensive for what they are) in order to allow massification of a technology that will eventually benefit everyone.
To call EV owners “rich twats” (which is essentially the message) is shortsighted at best.
Taxis, for example, are more expensive than private cars so those who can’t afford a car pay more for their transport.
Does this mean that there is something inherently wrong with owning a car?
I personally see myself as being a early adopter, paying over the odds for a car (because, let’s face it, Teslas are overly expensive for what they are) in order to allow massification of a technology that will eventually benefit everyone.
To call EV owners “rich twats” (which is essentially the message) is shortsighted at best.
There is no solution, but its better to recognise the issues than pretend they don't exist.
JupiterMan
Active Member
Looking further ahead the answer here I think is robotaxis, i.e. "transport as a service" model, where car ownership is a thing of the past. you simply hire a (fully charged) car through an app for the journey you need to take.
That should, in theory, lessen the poverty gap considerably.
I believe there could be at least a partial answer.
EV owners could be accessed just as any other electricity consumer with different rates for different cars. Workplace charging is a must when that is possible. Otherwise the charging network eventually would benefit from being separate from distribution. In fact imo it would make sense to do that fairly early and have distribution network that is separate from selling and billing. If charging points recognised a vehicle based tag, then each vehicle could have different tariffs just like domestic supply.
This would open up different rates based on each vehicles circumstance as well as timed charging like agile etc.
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Rustybkts
Member
Surely EV owners are reducing "fuel poverty" by the increasing use of renewables that EV's are perfectly suited to use and by reducing the use of oil based products which is already proving to cause large reductions in the cost of such carbon based energy.
Hence why Shell and BP to name two are investing in renewable electricity generation as they see the writing on the wall.
Rustybkts
Member
Jason71
Well-Known Member
By the time that's a thing in the UK we will all be using hover boards for short trips anyway.
MrBadger
Badger out
Who needs cars or robotaxis when you can have a whole chauffeur driven train carriage or bus to yourself
Dougall1248
Member
There has always been resistance to progress. Industrial revolution, horseless carriages, computerised printing, windows computers instead of MS Dos to name but a few. Now we are in a position that it is vital to discourage the internal combustion engine. When we all go EV the taxes will inevitably come. Why not put up with the petrolheads because they are keeping the incentives going and increasing our pleasure especially when they rev up at the traffic lights.
The inner geek in me is obliged to point out the original windows were actually running ms dos. Windows is just an interface! I take your point though
ACarneiro
Active Member
Cnixon
Member
It is possible there is a lack of national policy. The fees are being applied by a local government who is anti EV!
