Is there dislike towards EV drivers in the UK?

[Cyclone1]

Whilst the car industry transitions to EV there will always be “hatred” of anything new, in this case EV’s.

I’m on a number of car forums and the hatred towards electric vehicles and Tesla is surprisingly high. It can vary from being uneducated on current EV’s, never having test driven one, range anxiety, “the looks”, but ultimately it’s the bravado about the noise and driver experience in ICE cars that is the justification to dislike EV’s. It’s not all, but surprisingly more than I would expect.

I like both and don’t hide the fact, many other forum members are still surprised I went for a Tesla over another AMG and are fascinated to hear the comparison between my M3P and AMG. It’s not just about performance, and for me the M3P is a slower car than my last one, but it’s still a car I have no regrets about, so struggle to see the hatred from others.

Change always takes time and I am certain that the Model 3&Y along with newcomers like the Polestar 2, will accelerate the change in ICE car drivers perception.

I also notice that Tesla owners are a mix of people who enjoy their car for very different reasons. Some for the Tech, some for the brand, some for progressive ownership experience (upgrades in software etc), some for the functionality/practicality the car offers, plus some for the driving experience the car offers (not just the 0-30 blast). Whereas on the Other car forums I am on, it’s about the heritage of the brand, driving dynamics and performance. So some of these owners struggle with Tesla owners being “tech geeks” and not into driving dynamics, to me it makes no difference. If you like it, you like it, regardless of why. It just a broader commonality of interest.

 

[Rustybkts]

You can't really compare a BMW M3 agains the standard range plus. Talking away the EV party trick of 0-60 times, the BMW outshines it in every single way. The M3 is more like the Model 3 Performance, and neither are cheap

Its all in the eyes of the beholder. I put 100,000 miles under the BM M3 and became so sick of the running costs that it was always the third car chosen after my home build EV's (Elise and Vortex Kit) and eventually swapped out for an Ampera.
You simply have more fun in an EV as anything over the legal limits gets stupid but there is loads of fun to be had below it!

 

[JupiterMan]

But regardless this is a far cry compared to the US where the EV divide is huge - with the under-educated, over-entitled blindly followIng flat-earth politics.

Can't help but think Elon choosing the Oil state of Texas as the next US factory site can only help in this regard.

For me so far reaction has been mainly positive... except for one colleague who is brand loyal to Audi and addicted to petrol and seems to google for EV related "bad news" everyday... whatever, life is too short!

 

[Neilio]

Its all in the eyes of the beholder. I put 100,000 miles under the BM M3 and became so sick of the running costs that it was always the third car chosen after my home build EV's (Elise and Vortex Kit) and eventually swapped out for an Ampera.
You simply have more fun in an EV as anything over the legal limits gets stupid but there is loads of fun to be had below it!

I think we'll have to agree to disagree on this one. I'm not talking "eye of the beholder" stuff. I'm talking actual measurable things. The BMW M3 has better performance, much better build quality and more equipment then an SR+

Put it up against a Model 3 performance and things are different. I would dare say the beemer would be a lot more fun to drive, provide more "feel" around a track than the performance but in terms of actual out and out speed the Tesla would take it, then again the Tesla is £60000.

I agree on the running costs though, I ruled out, not an M3, but an Audi S4 and Merc C45AMG on terms of petrol/tax/maintenance costs. In that measure it's not even an argument.

 

[drtimhill]

ive not had any negative comments other than "ooo, theyre a bit rubbish arent they?" to which the response is just to laugh.
I guess in time that will happen. EV's will be taxed, there will be some form of tax on fuel. One day that person will drive an electric car and regret saying all of that...

In many US states (including mine) we pay extra annual vehicle license fees to cover the lost gasoline taxes. In Washington state I paid $150 EV fee when I renewed by car license. Which still leaves me way ahead in $$ fuel costs when compared to a gas car.

As far as EV haters are concerned, they are rare but exist everywhere. In the US they seem predominantly to be redneck truck drivers who have somehow conflated driving an EV with being anti-American (despite them often driving a Japanese truck and the Tesla being US made, but when does logic ever come into these things?).

(Apologies to truck drivers here, not trying to stereotype, but all the ICEing I've seen to date seems to involve someone in a big truck.)

 

[Columbo]

In many US states (including mine) we pay extra annual vehicle license fees to cover the lost gasoline taxes. In Washington state I paid $150 EV fee when I renewed by car license. Which still leaves me way ahead in $$ fuel costs when compared to a gas car.

As far as EV haters are concerned, they are rare but exist everywhere. In the US they seem predominantly to be redneck truck drivers who have somehow conflated driving an EV with being anti-American (despite them often driving a Japanese truck and the Tesla being US made, but when does logic ever come into these things?).

(Apologies to truck drivers here, not trying to stereotype, but all the ICEing I've seen to date seems to involve someone in a big truck.)

Wow, the fee for owning an EV shocks me. So much differences between states of a union.

 

[12Pack]

That's a bit harsh. I'm all for performance,ance and light weight. Having owned a (not particularly quick or powerful) extremely light car in the past I can appreciate the affects on handling of a light car. They thing about this being an EV forum though is it's just not currently possible to have a lightweight EV with a practical range.

Maybe that'll change? The lotus Evija should help? Surely they, of all car companies, won't produce a heavy car?

Quite right - The Evija is quoted to be 3700 lbs, not exactly light but certainly so for an EV. And the battery will be centrally located as in Formula E (and the new Mini Electric) so that the despite the weight, the car has low polar moment and turns in well.

 

[Exy1]

I think we'll have to agree to disagree on this one. I'm not talking "eye of the beholder" stuff. I'm talking actual measurable things. The BMW M3 has better performance, much better build quality and more equipment then an SR+

Put it up against a Model 3 performance and things are different. I would dare say the beemer would be a lot more fun to drive, provide more "feel" around a track than the performance but in terms of actual out and out speed the Tesla would take it, then again the Tesla is £60000.

I agree on the running costs though, I ruled out, not an M3, but an Audi S4 and Merc C45AMG on terms of petrol/tax/maintenance costs. In that measure it's not even an argument.

Not sure the M3 does have better performance that is actually usable on the road, unless you want to lose your licence as exploiting that better performance will involve a lot of noise and attention.

Better build quality really is questionable as cracked subframes and Vanos are problematic. All manufacturers have their problems.

How much MORE equipment do you actually NEED?

 

[Neilio]

Not sure the M3 does have better performance that is actually usable on the road, unless you want to lose your licence as exploiting that better performance will involve a lot of noise and attention.

Better build quality really is questionable as cracked subframes and Vanos are problematic. All manufacturers have their problems.

How much MORE equipment do you actually NEED?

The more equipment the better. If you’re spending the thick end of £40000 Ona. Car you would expect more than a four seats and an iPad. The BMW M3 equipment levels are way beyond even the priciest model 3 performance.

Also, maybe it’s an EV thing? But don’t confuse straight line speed with performance

 

[j1mgg]

The more equipment the better. If you’re spending the thick end of £40000 Ona. Car you would expect more than a four seats and an iPad. The BMW M3 equipment levels are way beyond even the priciest model 3 performance.

Also, maybe it’s an EV thing? But don’t confuse straight line speed with performance

I am.aure the model 3 performance has been put up against other respectable cars on the track and held its own, possibly by fifth gear, sure a e63 was included.

Let's say, the inside of the Model 3 is lacking.

 

[Neilio]

I am.aure the model 3 performance has been put up against other respectable cars on the track and held its own, possibly by fifth gear, sure a e63 was included.

Let's say, the inside of the Model 3 is lacking.

It has and I imagine it’d easily hold it’s own. Some of it as about driving dynamics though. The fact is a bmw M3 is more fun to drive than the M3 performance. The weight is a killer. Don’t get mo wrong here. The M3P is a very, very, very good handling car. The lighter weight of the M3 just gives it a much better feel

 

[MrBadger]

I'm talking actual measurable things. The BMW M3 has better performance, much better build quality and more equipment then an SR+

Presumably the comparison here against the SR is down to price? Take the battery cost off the price of the SR, its not an M3 that should be being compared if using cost alone. Hardly surprising that the M3 comes out better in that comparison. Similar is true of the LR/AWD motor variants and most of the cost differential is front motor and larger capacity battery.

 

[Neilio]

Presumably the comparison here against the SR is down to price? Take the battery cost off the price of the SR, its not an M3 that should be being compared if using cost alone. Hardly surprising that the M3 comes out better in that comparison. Similar is true of the LR/AWD motor variants and most of the cost differential is front motor and larger capacity battery.

Apart from the performance comparison you could say the same of the model 3 performance. Which you could end up paying £66000 for!

 

[MrBadger]

LR/AWD 'variants' covered the performance. The performance was once a ~£2500 software tweak (and 'binned' motor) on top of the LR/AWD with an optional ~£6k performance upgrade pack (PUP) for hardware - wheels, spoiler, pedals, callipers etc. The biggest price differential now of LR/AWD vs current Performance (other than £2.5k) is the non optional PUP and loss of government grant. The SR+, LR/AWD and Performance (without PUP) are fundamentally the same cars, with a handful of differences, some of which are software unlocks. I think someone on here once compared them to a Ford Focus (?) with an expensive battery.

 

[SSedan]

Again a good portion of "EV hate" is rooted in the entitlement of the EV driver's who see it the most.
Those of YOU posting here about how evil oil is, those of you justifying your rich people tax cuts to help you buy a new luxury car. While saying the oil that fuels your neighbors 15yo car that just gets them by should be taxed ever higher. You are the source of the problem.

Every "petrolhead" I know loves my car, but that is because I am honest and reasonable and didn't get a rich person tax cut, and I support my increased registration costs. I don't pontificate on the evils of fossil fuels, or how dumb they are for still driving an ICE.

 

[ACarneiro]

Do enlighten me about this “rich person tax cut”. Where can I apply? Would come in handy...

 

[Neilio]

LR/AWD 'variants' covered the performance. The performance was once a ~£2500 software tweak (and 'binned' motor) on top of the LR/AWD with an optional ~£6k performance upgrade pack (PUP) for hardware - wheels, spoiler, pedals, callipers etc. The biggest price differential now of LR/AWD vs current Performance (other than £2.5k) is the non optional PUP and loss of government grant. The SR+, LR/AWD and Performance (without PUP) are fundamentally the same cars, with a handful of differences, some of which are software unlocks. I think someone on here once compared them to a Ford Focus (?) with an expensive battery.

Not sure what you are trying to say? My point is someone tried to compare the SR+ with a bmw M3 but said it’s a lot cheaper. My point was, yes it is, that’s because build quality, performance and equipment levels are worse. As far as equipment levels and build quality go, significantly so too

 

[EVMeister]

The fact is a bmw M3 is more fun to drive than the M3 performance.

That's an opinion, not a fact. Some people (me included) find the instant jolt when you put your foot down and continuous stream of acceleration very fun in the Model 3. A type of fun a BMW M3 can't provide.

 

[Leilani]

The more equipment the better. If you’re spending the thick end of £40000 Ona. Car you would expect more than a four seats and an iPad. The BMW M3 equipment levels are way beyond even the priciest model 3 performance.

Also, maybe it’s an EV thing? But don’t confuse straight line speed with performance

4 seats and an ipad for that much money? What was I thinking......lol

 

[gangzoom]

Do enlighten me about this “rich person tax cut”. Where can I apply? Would come in handy...

What % of your income are you spending on fuel costs now versus some one on £20k a year running a £500 diesel?

I've just worked out our household electricity bill since March has been £34 all in, thats including standing charge + 800 or so of EV miles. As a % of our household income our electricity bill isn't even a single digit % figure.

Is our family 'greener' than a family living on benefits paying for electricity by the meter, and having to worry about spending money on electricity versus putting food on the table???

EVs have exacerbated fuel poverty in the UK, and in many ways its obscene those of those who can afford tech, and therefore access cheap running costs are paying less for what is often essential energy usage than those less fortunate.

I can fully understand why many in society see EVs just as another example of how unfair society is, and regardless of what government wrapper you use - democracy/capitalism/communism, the end effect for society is the same.

'All animals are equal, but some animals are more equal than others'